Ariz. starts its employer sanctions 'experiment'

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Ariz. starts its employer sanctions 'experiment'

Many are watching to see if law affects illegal entry

By Brady McCombs

Arizona Daily Star

Tucson, Arizona | Published: 01.01.2008

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The rest of the nation will be watching Arizona starting today as a new employer-sanctions law dubbed the nation's toughest and most wide-reaching goes into effect.

Under the Legal Arizona Workers Act, businesses that knowingly hire illegal entrants could face a business-license suspension of up to 10 days on a first offense and lose that license for a second offense.

The law — signed by Gov. Janet Napolitano on July 2 after gaining approval from the Legislature — is the first of its kind in the United States. Tennessee has a similar law that takes effect today, and Oklahoma will implement one in July.

"What Arizona will become is a natural experiment," said Demetrios Papademetriou, president of the Migration Policy Institute, a Washington-based think tank that advocates for comprehensive immigration changes. "In effect, we will be testing everything we are having an argument about and see if a state can, indeed, regulate immigration by sanctioning employers."

Proponents say the law will force illegal entrants to move elsewhere, reducing the costs incurred by schools, hospitals and the criminal justice system. Opponents counter that it will cripple the Arizona economy by eliminating a valuable work force and result in some employers relocating.

The law will give Arizona, and the rest of the country, an opportunity to determine the actual costs and benefits of illegal immigration, he said. It will also test if the federal government's E-verify system, which employers will be required to use, can handle the extra load.

And perhaps most important, it will reveal whether the country has the political will to follow through with the tough law, which could cause major hardships to businesses and the economy, Papademetriou said.

"It's a brand-new world that we are entering, and we'll see how much stomach we have for this," said Papademetriou, who co-founded the institute and studies international migration. "This is unprecedented anywhere in the world."

Traditionally, employers have largely been left alone by federal authorities who spend most of their resources on trying to catch illegal entrants as they cross the border while devoting only a fraction of the resources to investigating employers within the country.

In fiscal year 2007, Immigration and Customs Enforcement reported 92 criminal arrests of company supervisors, an increase from the previous three years but still statistically insignificant considering there are 6 million companies that employ more than 7 million illegal entrants, according to several analysts.

That strategy is starting to change though, albeit with baby steps such as Arizona's new law, he said. The law will provide an opportunity to see if employer sanctions are feasible and effective on a much-smaller scale.

"We now have a natural experiment, and we are going to see how it plays out economically, politically, socially and culturally," Papademetriou said. "The whole country is watching because what Arizona did is go to the very heart of the argument, which is to see if this is all about employment and work."

More immigration stories are at azstarnet.com/border

Ariz. starts its employer sanctions 'experiment' | www.azstarnet.com ®

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I hope CA starts it real soon or else they will all come here for work.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

cALI I DONT BELIEVE WILL WORK

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

You guys do realize what this will do to the service industries right?

Beth

[Ron Musgraves 240]

THIS will affect the children for sure.

its a shame arizona leads the way, this time i think they are wrong. it will have a devistating affect on the economy. unfortunatly many citizens that have children and family that are natral born will be hurt.

its a difficult thing to watch citizens , especially children be removed by the goverment.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

It will take a while for long term affects to help anyone.

people may just go without many luxury services? maids, carwash ect,

[Ron Musgraves 240]

one more thing, arizona is not on a level playing field, industry wont be chosing this state for labor jobs.

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

It will take a while for long term affects to help anyone.

people may just go without many luxury services? maids, carwash ect,

It will drive labor rates through the roof.

Beth

[Tmrrptr 164]

This is wrong.

It is a function of the national gubment to defend our borders from invaders.

[Jeff 232]

It will drive labor rates through the roof.

Beth

If labor rates go up, maybe more people will have money to drive the economy and hire someone to pressure wash their houses

Since the feds arent willing to do anything, I say good luck to AZ. Many local & state govs are stressed to breaking point, due to illegals. Ive seen pay checks to illegals, many pay no or VERY little taxes, when legal folks are paying them all

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Since the feds arent willing to do anything, I say good luck to AZ. Many local & state govs are stressed to breaking point, due to illegals. Ive seen pay checks to illegals, many pay no or VERY little taxes, when legal folks are paying them all

they get no refund, ZERO Jeff

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Are we going to bring the factorys back from Mexico?

I may need a job

[Edward 14]

It has been a standard in this country for ages that we don't let criminals benefit from their crime. I know I know I have heard it hundreds of times, all they want is a better life. Well that is all the bank robber wants too. When someone enters this country illegally they are breaking the law and every day they stay here they are continuing to break the law. Why should law abiding citizens be forced to pay taxes so these non law abiding people can have government services as well as health care? The next time you get hospital bill and look at the itemized statement ask your self if that bandage they put on you really cost them all that much? What is happening is called cost shifting. It comes down to those who can pay end up paying for their care as well as care for those who cannot or will not pay. That is exactly why the small business person has to pay out the nose for medical insurance. That woman who walked across the border and popped out a kid and paid nothing just sent you the bill. The real question comes down to, is the service industry entitled to be subsidized by the tax payer so that we can hire really cheap labor? This labor issue will do no more harm than what the fuel prices have done over the last two years. When fuel prices go up so does what we charge the customer. Labor is the same.

Edward

[Ron Musgraves 240]

You guys really buy all that propaganda?

How do people get health care if the are not residents? I cant walse in the hospital with out my check book in hand.

Second, there are alot of citizens that will be thrown out of the country, natural born ones.

Its a bigger problem than we all think, people are people.

Sorry, if i couldnt get here legal? well, i would swim here anyway.

We all are from other countrys brother.

Bottom line is we need to make it possible for people to enter our borders legal.

We wont see this till after the election. By then many children and women will suffer.

[Jeff 232]

You guys really buy all that propaganda?

How do people get health care if the are not residents? I cant walse in the hospital with out my check book in hand.

Second, there are alot of citizens that will be thrown out of the country, natural born ones.

Its a bigger problem than we all think, people are people.

Sorry, if i couldnt get here legal? well, i would swim here anyway.

We all are from other countrys brother.

Bottom line is we need to make it possible for people to enter our borders legal.

We wont see this till after the election. By then many children and women will suffer.

Ron if we just let everyone in, our country will be to stretched to the limits. Theres reasons there was amounts of people we let in

I would figure half of Mexico would like to come here if we let them. We cant take all those people in, we just cant. We are stressed to the limit now

This country was made by immigrants, but that was a different time

We have legal women & children that are suffering right now. We can not just take care of the world or let the world here and take care of everyone. There will always be suffering, I rather take care of our country and sadly let other countries suffer before our own. Its just a sad truth

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Jeff, every immigrants needs a CD player and car a home. Please

[HotShot 34]

See Jeff...we do agree on some things :D

Illegal immigration is destroying our country! We must stop the bleeding first by sealing the borders. After all, some of those illegals sneaking over the border could be coming here to harm us, could they not?

What ever happen to people being responsible for their actions? It isn't the gov't that would be responsible for sending people back to where they came from, it would be THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE ILLEGALLY HERE!!! They are NOT innocent bystanders, they had to sneak over here knowing that what they were doing is illegal. As much as I admire their hard work and family oriented way of life, they are breaking the law....period.

With that said, I would love to see some sort of temp workers program instituted. After it's instituted and an illegal is caught here that has not applied, and been granted permission, they should be sent back. After they have applied for the worker program and are accepted, THEN they would have the chance to apply for citizenship.

I have made many friends in the restaurant business that are probably illegal. I don't know for sure if they are or aren't and I don't ask, but when I see the owner pay them cash at the end of the night, then I'm assuming that they are. I know that most of them work 2-3 jobs and live with 4-5 other people in a little house. They send most of their money back to Mexico to take care of their family. I admire that work ethic, however, that does not give them a pass on breaking the law.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Rissia built a wall, maybe we can go broke next.

NAFTA was made to make the rich richer.

This is all about immigration reform. That should have been handled first.

Now people will be hurt and the oportunity of making people in our own country unhappy and possibly anti.

[HotShot 34]

Rissia built a wall, maybe we can go broke next.

Russia was communist, that's why they went broke..we are capitalist...HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Now people will be hurt and the oportunity of making people in our own country unhappy and possibly anti.

:lgbonk:

Heaven forbid that somebody gets unhappy about seeing criminals be punished...

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I love debating this one with you ant, you can’t win this one.

You see the problem is that those programs for migrant and temp workers you talk about don’t exist anymore.

So let’s just say your sister was here and she for whatever reason had never gotten her citizenship when your family came from let’s say POLAND. (Polish people please don’t take that wrong I love polish food) I’m from south Chicago and if your polish you know I really do like the food.

I have relatives illegal in this country because they want a better life; they are white so they don’t ever get harassed by our local sheriff JOE.

Back to your illegal sister that never got her papers in order, her and the kids are caught by JOE on a normal traffic stop. Your brother in-law is a hard working guy let’s say for the US NAVY. You get the luxury of writing him because you sisters on her way back to POLAND with your natural born nephew she will not leave behind. Now in this case after much paper work they will be able to return because your brother -in law is a citizen or the US. Let’s just say now your sister in the same situation and she divorced or not married. BYE BYE because the next time you’ll see her is when you book a ticket back to Poland to visit her. On top of that she’s now a criminal. (Being married to and American doesn’t grant temporary status anymore)

Many Americans have family members from foreign countries that do not have visa’s or the visas expired.

I’ll admit I’m not happy about the aliens that are here without paper work. If we allowed them in like we used to I would be less sympathetic.

Heck, my grandparents’ are from the boat. I’m third generation, heck the country’s only 232 years old. How many generations could your relatives be from the boat?

Some of us have kept in touch with the old country and we have loved ones that want to be here and receive a better life.

I believe we should allow immigrants into this country again, I think that it was built by hardworking people with the dream to make a better place than the one they came from. It’s the greatest country in the world and I think we are headed for the same fate Russia had if we close hard working VCR DVD CAR BUYING immigrants out.

BOTTOM LINE WE NEED CHEAP LABOR LOCK IN MEXICO TO RUN ALL THOSE FACTORYS WE BUILT THERE IN THE LAST 20 Years!!!!!!!!!

By the way, the kids all born here will receive assistance regardless of their parents status. Regardless where they live, that’s why they were trying to change that also.

This is about humans fighting for a better life, I thank my father and grandfather for fighting for mine. We need to remember once were we came from and remember the labor and journey our ancestors made and return the favor. These people are not taking food or money off your plate. It’s not what the government brain washed you about. Terrorist, crooks, killers & thieves.

Open your eyes and you heart, for every one bad person that fits this profile are a thousand good people trying to eat.

Hispanics are the hardest working people I have ever known. Maybe you should get to know one; maybe you should reach out and understand they just want a piece of what our fathers wanted.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Russia was communist, that's why they went broke..we are capitalist...HUGE DIFFERENCE.

we are capitalizing on cheap labor south of the border. Is that what your talking about?

Have you read that definition? closing borders and locking people out is a long way from that word.

Are we still industrialized TOO!!!

Have you even a clue at what I'm reffering too.

ANT, on the next one council with your buddys. Tell me something else i can actaully debate with you.

You see, our goverment is and has been moving jobs off the soil of the US for 30 plus years. ITS fact....

The factory workers wage in MExico actually has dropped in the past. Meanwhile that Nissan you drive that was assembled in KY(i dont know where) the parts are made in MEXICO. Ford has been making blocks in MEXICO since 1954.

LETS keep those criminals making us expensive cars, wait....lets only pay them 3 dollars a day....instead of a guy from michigan 24 and hour. Lets keep raising the price of th car.

ANT, your truck cost as much as my first home but being made by 3 dollar a day labor.

WHO are the CRIMINALS?????

KEEP MEXICANs IN MEXICO<<<<<<<<DARN criminalssss

[mbryan 48]

This subject was brought up in the recent debate and from what I could understand (very few of them are easy to understand) this was the most difficult issue on the table. Rudy and Ron Paul had the best answers, no amnesty, but give the illegals a penalty and allow them to stay in the country. The programs they proposed had several layers, but ultimately it allowed those who were in the US without Visas to stay as long as they paid the price, just like anyone who has committed a crime in this country has to pay a price.

Under their programs all of the criminals would be deported, but this would not really apply to the most of the immigrants that AZ is trying to track down with their new law.

One of the reasons this is such a touchy subject is our founding fathers did not have to deal with this, we were a young country that embraced everyone. Now we have issues of national security that have to be looked at before we can adopt firm immigration policy. We are a new generation that is going to have to figure this one out for ourselves.

I know when I raised my right hand, I pledged to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; Maybe if we brought our troops back from every other country around the world, we could defend our own borders and this wouldn't be such a big issue, just a thought.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

mexicans our our friends Matt, we certainly dont need our troops to Keep canada staright either.

Sercurity for our borders our being done in the right places around the globe.

Certainly being ex-military you dont believe in some ridiculous theory about bringing all our troops home and lets live in fantasy land about others not trying or having weapons of man distruction?

Opps another thread that one is, sorry i'm off subject.

Enough on this one, we will continue to harrass Americans in the name of the color of skin and force american to be deported by mistake. Of course our safety is now will twist the constitution and the pricipals I hold dearly to my heart as a patriot.

[mbryan 48]

The 9/11 attacks happened inside our borders, using our own planes against us, not with weapons of mass destruction from a country 5,000 miles away.

Immigrant workers make up a certain percentage of the American work force, but if those workers are paid less than minimum wage, under the table, then our dollar is even weaker than it already seems, and a portion of our economy is a lie.

Make those who are here illegally legal, put them through a process to give them citizenship, with penalties. Pay them what they deserve to be paid for the work that they do. Enforce our borders, but allow those that want to come here to prosper in.

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Does anyone know who buys the most phone cards or disposable phones?

Has anyone noticed that signs have popped up in various stores and other places of business such as banks, in Spanish as well as English?

Did anyone see the program Home Depot (as I recall) rolled out where you can by a HD card with X dollars on it, and send it to someone to use in another country? You can send money home, but keep it in your store.

What is happening with the immigration issue in the US will effect us in many, many ways.

Beth