Thoughts on Stripper

[rj242 16]

Hey Guys,

I have used F18 and had good results with it, but have heard nothing but great things about HD80. I have a 25x25 deck coming up, that has I believe a gray (solid color) oil based stain on it (oven cleaner will remove it). I need to purchase some more stripper, and was wondering if I shouldn't try HD80 for this job, or are they both about the same thing?

One more question. I have a 5.3gpm develan pump set up for roof cleaning. I tried to use it the other day, and and it emptied my 5 gallon bucket of stripper in no time. I was wondering if I could decrease the tip size and make this pump work as a deck pump also, for applying stripper and brightener?

All replies will be greatly appreciated.

RJ

[MMI Enterprises 289]

I don't see why you couldn't use the delevan. I use an air diaphragm/roof setup sometimes to apply deck chems when I don't feel like downstreaming or I need straight chems or I need to shoot it across the top of a pergola or such..

Just use an adjustable nozzle as pictured below. Can turn it down or just pump it lightly to slow things down abit.

[sealerguy 14]

Havn't tried HD on solids before but it works great on other thick films if left to dwell for 15 minutes or so. Mix it strong if you do, let us know how it goes. I usually pass on those thick solid strips here cause their a pain. Last year we tried everything the market bears to strip the 52 years and many coats of paint on my cedar shake siding at my personal residence, and what melted everything was a METHOLYNE CHLORIDE paver stripper that we use to remove old acrylic coatings. The stuff is dangerous! but if you suit up properly and wear a respirator and goggles it's not so bad. Amazingly, it did not screw up my cedar. I guess there is something we found out of despiration to get all of the paint off my home that will work great if the need arises to melt paint or solid stains. Anything else out there work great?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Chris, meth is usually considered too expensive for large areas but yup it the bomb.

Even better maybe going to blasting methods but that takes us from the chem stripping topic.

Simply dwelling/keeping the hydroxides wet, boosting/surfacting with glycols and such should suffice for most anything outside of poly or epoxy coatings. Some will soak area real well and then lay plastic overnight to keep it wet and reacting.

When I use meth it usually on real thick 2 part coatings on concrete.

[rj242 16]

Another ? about this job, if I can remove most of the old stain (say 90%), and go back with the same kind gray stain, will the job come out looking good. The home owner said he was going to find an old can of the stuff in the shed. He said he thought it was a Behr product, and pretty sure of it being a oil based stain.

I did test it with oven cleaner in a couple of spots and it would come off.

[Littlefield 65]

I'm sure the HD 80 will take it off. If some sticks on the knots, and you are going back with a similar color of transparent, it will still look pretty good. If it don't work at first, get it boosted up with glycol, propylene I think is the "safe" one.

Guys, be sure and correct me if I'm wrong on that, it's been a few months since I stripped for money...:)

I checked myself, I'm right. Sold under Sierra or Peak brands around here.

Use the search to get some ideas on the amount per gallon of stripper to add the boost.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Rich, By one of yer own workups that is based on discussion with Russel the amount I calculated your info comes to 6.4 oz per gal. Further on in other posts Russel and others say upto 10% of solution (12.8 oz) which btw happens to translate well if you were into slowly making very hot/hardcore downstreamable concoctions.

[sealerguy 14]

Kevin: have you used HD on a solid strip yet? I really like that product, would be nice if it came with a measuring cup, had to mcgyver something the first time I used it. Also I'm getting five gallon buckets of meth for about 90.00, not a bad price, I kind of got away from the whole solid stain bit, I sub em to a buddy. RJ: If you bid the job high for stripping, go for it, you may have some sanding to do on the horizontals, expecially around the knots, but these jobs usually take some time. If the customer is ok with using solid again, and the coating is not peeling everywhere, it's alot easier, you wont need to completly remove the old solid, just a good wash, a light sand, and two fresh coats.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Kevin: have you used HD on a solid strip yet? I really like that product, would be nice if it came with a measuring cup, had to mcgyver something the first time I used it. Also I'm getting five gallon buckets of meth for about 90.00, not a bad price, I kind of got away from the whole solid stain bit, I sub em to a buddy. RJ: If you bid the job high for stripping, go for it, you may have some sanding to do on the horizontals, expecially around the knots, but these jobs usually take some time. If the customer is ok with using solid again, and the coating is not peeling everywhere, it's alot easier, you wont need to completly remove the old solid, just a good wash, a light sand, and two fresh coats.

Suppose $90 per fiver could be good. Haven't priced it that way for awhile now and forget how much I can get it for in bulk. I do know the retail offerings of some brands such as Jasco have different levels of concentrates and ability. I usually just get customer to flip bill for the Epoxy one... that runs about $30. I mainly use for interior concrete situations along with lac thinner rinsing.

I don't use HD80. When I speak of it I am usually basing things in regard to it's main generic ingrediant of hydroxide or passing along other folks info. I mainly use a ready made hydroxide product local to me that is already sufficiently boosted and strong enough in its liquid form to downstream strip most semi acrylics or oils.

To comment on what ya said to RJ about the solids..I agree and have no issues with letting folk stick with the solids if that what they want or it is appropriate to the job. I part ways though in going for two coats though. Frankly I dislike the time involved and having to price figure the extra material into the job. The Cabot OVT is specifically a one coat product and my current choice. Can't say how long it lasts as others may already know but I like the coverage rates, the single coat aspect to it, and that it is oil which makes for compatability when using sem-trans decking stains on the horizontals. Hard to find that in a brand.

I would welcome hearing of some other one coat oilborne solid options as the cabots is a tad pricey.

[RPetry 564]

Another ? about this job, if I can remove most of the old stain (say 90%), and go back with the same kind gray stain, will the job come out looking good.

RJ,

You have the right idea. If in fact the existing solid stain is oil based, a fairly hot sodium hydroxide mix will remove most of the old stain. This allows an intact substrate for your new stain application to bind or adhere.

The job in the attached pics was originally finished with a Cabot's solid oil, stripped with 10 oz./gal. of ACR 760, which is very similar to F-18. The same Cabot solid color oil stain of the same color was then reapplied.

[sealerguy 14]

RICK: looks great, stripping is best expecially if the previous coating has failed. KEVIN: Cabot has the best solid on the market imho, never tried the OVT, does it really cover in one coat? Same color/color change? We used to use cabot but switched to cuprinol/deckscapes because there is a SW just about everwhere here and I have an account so it's easy for my guys if they need a gallon or two, colors allready on the computer.. Back when we used cabot, sometimes we would end up with a highschool kid at aco trying to figure it out.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

OVT has for sure worked for me with their recommneded one coat. Think their only deviation from that was that lite colrs may need two.

[RPetry 564]

Chris,

Yeah, there were actually two previous coats of Cabots solid oil decking stain on the wood prior to stripping. The substrate had cracked and started to fail in a lot of areas so it was best to get back down to wood before reapplication.

Kevin,

You are surely aware, but do not want others mislead: Cabot's OVT line (#6500 or #6700 series) is NOT a decking stain. The #1600 or #7600 (VOC compliant) series solid oil stains should be used on horizontal wood.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Rick,

Yes very important to stress that. Out here for me it is the 7400 series.

How long you see them lasting?

[RPetry 564]

Kevin,

Here in NJ with the freeze/thaw cycles and summer sun exposure, three years on deck floors and four to five on vertical wood. This is with one coat.

Probably more if a 2nd coat is applied but no one wants to pay that much labor! Fine by me, don't like solid stains and would rather not use the old Binks airless ever again.

Its been my experience that you can do one maintenance after three years. At the six year mark, it is best to strip and start over.

The #7400 series is what Cabot's calls a "semi-solid finish" and AFAIK just has a bit less pigment than the #7600.

[Don M. 14]

I used the delevan set up some last year, and it really went through the chems.

On a oil based deck, I was able to mix f18 pretty hot and downstream. I like the idea of just one hose for everything.

[rj242 16]

guys thanks for the replies!

[bulletproof 14]

if I can remove most of the old stain (say 90%), and go back with the same kind gray stain, will the job come out looking good.

What if you intend to put down a different type of stain, similar color, but different type?

I am presently stripping a deck done with Sherwin Williams natural waterbourne semi-transparent. I am getting between 90-95% of it off. Do I need to get every spec of it off to re-apply with ready seal natural cedar semi?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Vincent,

What if you intend to put down a different type of stain, similar color, but different type? No on different types. Stick to waterborne (acrylics) on waterborne and oilborne on oilborne or you risk delamination from either mechanical grip or moisture transfer from underneither. Water will infiltrate from above once film barrier is compromised from foot traffic, temp cracking, etc. and effect the two exposed products at different rates..bamm it peels off!.. Exception is when your to do a solid stain of thicker mil as an actual coating..you can then use like an alkyd oilborne primer between types to lock things away like on exterior siding or house painting. Tried on horizontal decking though and you get what I consider a decking atrocity as eventually everything fails. Stripping solid coatings from horizontal decking is nighmare. I just don't go there myself. For verticle work though you can either prime or use the Provt (waterborne) self priming when you know not exactly what your dealing with and want to ensure a lasting finish.

I am presently stripping a deck done with Sherwin Williams natural waterbourne semi-transparent. I am getting between 90-95% of it off. Do I need to get every spec of it off to re-apply with ready seal natural cedar semi? Got to take it all off or the parrafinic itself will likely cause the waterborne synthetics to fall off. Since only a 5-10% of the surface would be sealed it will also fail once the oils of the new start to deminish from process I descibe above of moisture infiltration.

Edited June 9, 2009 by MMI Enterprises