Armstrong Clark

[bigchaz 157]

**Edit (July 2010)**

For those of you stumbling upon this post through Google Search, I wanted to report an update that Apex DeckSavers (providing deck cleaning, deck restoration, and deck staining services in the Apex, Cary, Raleigh, Chapel Hill North Carolina) has been using Armstrong Clark stain for over two years now with amazing results. Coverage is great, oil penetrates deep on the older woods, and the color tone is fantastic. No color shift from the decks I've been tracking either. Scotts been carrying it at the www.thesealerstore.com so all you East Coast folks can get it from there. We primarily restore Pressure Treated Pine and use the Armstrong Clark Semi-Transparent stains for most applications.

Anyone with questions is welcome to email me at charlie(at)apexdecksavers(dot)com

The thread below is several years old and has some great information on the stain before it became well known around the country. Thanks to all that contributed to the thread and the exposure this post has generated for Armstrong Clark.

*****

I'm looking for anyone who has used Armstrong Clark stains or has experimented with them for some time now.

Theres some info in the 2008 sealer poll but I'm looking for people who has used it on a job to give their impressions

What kind of coverage did you get?

Where to purchase it?

Whats the viscosity of the oil?

And finally does anyone have photos of the stain on a deck? Pressure treated pine would be nice. Cedar and Rustic colors in particular

Thanks

Edited July 22, 2010 by bigchaz
Update on post

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

I'm waiting for samples myself. Don't have anything to report, but when we do we'll be glad to share it.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Charlie,

We just finished a cedar deck with A-C in Rustic Brown, our first time using the stain. Have not yet taken finished pics. Gotta' go to work in a few minutes, but a couple of answers.

What kind of coverage did you get?

On western red cedar, ~ 200 sq. ft. / gal.

Where to purchase it?

Directly from Armstrong-Clark in Calif. Call or order from their website.

Whats the viscosity of the oil?

Just a touch thicker than Ready Seal. A lot more pigment.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Can be had at some Sherwins, at least out here anyways. I hear Kelly Moore has had it also and that they can order it in but that since Sherwin took it on they stepped out of keeping it on the shelf. Just checked the other day and Sherwin current price was $31+ per gal or 32+ per fiver making it about $10 more per fiver compared to going direct with Jake. For me, the turn around between order and to my door was one day. I like the product...

Just wait till ya get the flyers and sample fans in hand..they're so good you'll be like what the heck have I been trying to push. Nothing like showing up at a bid with them hanging off yer measuring wheel for people to see and touch is my feeling. They look at their peeling failing stain and then back at the samples and it becomes a no brainer in many cases. This translates into a pretty big confidence boost while bidding and I can see the increased interest from customers.

It's one thing to be able to incorporate the pros & cons of either a film forming product or penetrating product into a bid and another to be able to discuss a 3rd product option in order to take a middle ground or moderate position. Although I can't say anything of durability myself at this point, I can confirm that it flows, holds, and colors well at about 200' per gal.

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

I just saw this post...

I've been using AC for close to two years and I agree with the prior post. The favs in my area seem to be rustic brown, woodland brown and mtn cedar. I've done one in natural. The later two are semi-solids. I have had very good results. I order directly from CA and it takes 5 days. That's a pain, but nothing that compares is available any faster around here. One note, the colors in the brochures are not real accurate, especially woodland brown - either get the sample chips or ask Jake and Mark for stain samples and make your own. I always show customers actually wood samples.

I'm on a 3000+' deck/dock getting mtn cedar and will put pics on my website...

I can provide pics, and my oldest is a samll one with Rustic Brown.

[YVPW 20]

I just used AC for the first time. I stained a PT deck with 1/2 cedar 1/2 sierra redwood blended together. Deck was 7 years old never sealed. The stain covered in one coat, except for a couple floor boards that needed a little more. I've used a lot of different stains and I have to say it's probably one of my favorites. Just finished the deck yesterday so I will have to wait and see how it turns out. But as of right now it's full of color. Easy to apply. I will say it's better than Wood Tux and Woodrich Stain & Seal. I'm gonna use up the remainder of my Stain & Seal and not use anymore Extreme Solutions stains. Comes in nice 5 gallon buckets you can take the lid off and easily mix. I hate the cube containers that Wood Tux comes in, those things aren't made for stain. Main thing is this company has been in business for many, many years and there products are proven time and time again. If everything goes like I think it will AC and Baker's is all I will use.

Ken, you should try AC it covers a lot like Gray Away.

[bigchaz 157]

I spoke with one of the owners Mr. Clark, who was very helpful. I just received a handful of sample cans as well. Really looking forward to trying it out on a deck.

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

Here are some pics of two latest jobs with AC

One is Woodland BRN semi-solid and the other is Mtn. Cedar Semi Solid.

These are hand brushed 100%. I sprayed a smaller deck Friday that I may post pics of after I go back to reset the furniture.

[bigchaz 157]

Do you ever use the semi-transparents?

[PressurePros 248]

Ken, you should try AC it covers a lot like Gray Away.

I have seen some pics of the semi-trans on decks and it looks almost identical to the Baker's. Does anyone know the type of pigmentation? I'm gonna guess clay or maybe a blend?

Shine, that would be a great product if you can get one coat coverage like that. Still very clean for a semi-solid. How is to work with? These are all oils right?

[RPetry 564]

We used Armstrong-Clark stain for the first time on a cedar job a few weeks ago. Comments follow. Be advised that this is written from the perspective of a contractor that has used Ready Seal stains almost exclusively for the past 6 years.

First, the customer service and shipping is outstanding. The order was shipped the same day, and the product was very well packaged. Better yet, the company reps answer their phones and are very helpful and knowledgeable of both their product and exterior wood.

The stain comes in the "old style" 5 gal. metal pails with the tabbed lid and quick pour spout. We opened a 5'er to paddle mix, but I am not sure if it was necessary. The stain itself was very well integrated with no evident separation. A-C stain is oil based, with the oil being 50% paraffinic (2 types) and 50% high quality linseed.

The job was a knotty western red cedar deck, mostly horizontal wood, built very close to the ground with little ventilation. The cedar was lightly stripped with 4 oz./gal. of ACR 760 stripper, and neutralized with 6 oz./gal. of citric acid. The acid was rinsed off and the cedar allowed to dry to 12%. First picture is the cedar prepped and ready for staining.

All stain was applied with with natural bristle brushes by hand. The stain color was "Rustic Brown". After applying a single coat to the vertical portions of the deck, I instructed my helper to start on the floor while I went to do an estimate. This was my fault and mistake. He "cut in" the floor by the house first, like we always do with Ready Seal, and then brushed out the remaining floor with a 6" brush on a pole. The resulting lap marks are evident in the 2nd picture.

He has never used a linseed stain and I have not in many a blue moon. As I planned on 2 separate applications on the floor, it was not a problem, but kind of embarrassing just the same!

Overall, the stain applied easily, with very good coverage, ~200 sq. ft./gal. on this cedar, including the 2 stainings on the deck floor. Consistency is just slightly thicker than RS, and could easily be sprayed with an HLVP or Shurflo.

Due to the linseed oil, clean up unfortunately requires paint thinner.

The third picture is of the finished job. Too dark and opaque for cedar for my taste but the customer loved it, stating "it looks like finished furniture!".

The last picture of the picnic table is interesting. This is a single application of A-C rustic brown on pressure treated southern yellow pine. IMO, this staining looks terrific.

I will be keeping an eye on this job for the next year or so. Stain longevity in NJ's climate, as well as ease of maintenance, are two critical factors in my company's success and reputation over the last 7 years. But preliminary indications are positive.

Armstrong-Clark is the first non Ready Seal stain that I will consider using for selected softwood jobs in the future. Have tested other stain manufacturers products, and used one, and have not been impressed. We will probably stain one pressure treated deck with Armstrong-Clark this year, and possibly a hardwood job. Then let time and future maintenance tell the full tale.

[YVPW 20]

Ken, they use transoxide pigments. I looked at the job yesterday and it looks almost identical to Baker's. But it has a higher spread rate than Gray Away. So that pretty closely evens out the difference in price. Baker's is a little easier to apply. When they told me one coat I thought to myself I've never used a true one coat stain on old wood. But I tell you this is pretty much true from what I can tell so far. The stain really needs to be backbrushed as with most full bodied stains. I didn't on the balusters and I could tell yesterday that it needed it. An 18" truck brush works wonders on that though. The floor was very even, not even the slightest variance in color like you get with other products. I used the semi-trans but it's more opaque than Tux or Stain & Seal. I'm gonna get some samples of there transparent colors and check those out.

I also restored another deck 2 houses down from this deck. Wood almost the same age never sealed. I stained it with Stain & Seal Western Cedar. It will be interesting to see how they compare over time. I love the color of the Stain & Seal but it's not near as even or full, even with several coats on the floor.

My favorite color of Stain & Seal is the WoodZo color. I had told Russell one day that I loved the color of half brown sugar, half western cedar and that I had been using that blend a few times. He told me that was the color of WoodZo.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Rick, You get the percentages direct from AC? If there is that much linseed to paraffinic in there it sure doesn't look it. Wonder what the total percentage is that lets it penetrate so well. Overall it pretty much looks absent of solids.

On the cleanup it can go either way in needing spirits. If ya catch it right away regular cleaner works fine. I spilt a few cup on aggregate and was able to absorb it out with rag and then followed up with purple power. That said, linseed content can be noticed while cleaning lines and buckets. I just know once the stuff dries it is tough stuff.

In using a sprayer I almost had same result as you did with the house cutting in but quikly noticed that properly triggering off while still in motion prevented puddeling of the pigment. I also went back and backbrushed. I then caught that wet edge just very lightly with same triggering off method standard to spraying most products.

Last job seemed really thirsty for more pigmentation so I did second and third wet on wet coats of rustic brown to where it all looked evenly wet for a longer time after. Although other jobs took one coat fine with Sierra Redwood and no need for backbrushing I just couldn't leave the Rustic Brown one alone. Coulda been the level of strip I had to give it or, more likely, it coulda been lack of patients on my part as I know these stains need time to settle in and acheive their final color but I kept applying anyways. Mind you I was using the semi trans where as Alan shows us the semi solid. That was more like I was after.

To be honest I would have to say that AC is not 100% foolproof and can need some backbrushing if more is applied than is supposed to be. There is sticker on lid I believe saying not to overapply though so go figure...

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

As far as semi-trans, I've used around 30 gallons or so of Rustic Brown and about 15 of Natural. I like using the semi-solids and have used more of those. I'll attach some pics of a Rustic Brn job finished last month. There were three docks at this place, too, but I didn't take pics of those.

I back brush immediately as needed for puddles and runs - the obvious. Otherwise I'll let it sit a few minutes and see what needs it on floor boards. As far as clean-up, my brushes sit in it most of the time and I use a little paint thinner between colors. Airless sprayer cleans up fine with a strong mix of stuff like purple power.

I have not used 2 coats on any job with AC.

I just edited this after I read the last post again - I did over apply the AC on some places on that covered dock shown in the pics posted earlier. Some of the covered part never gets any sun and I didn't back brush like I should have. The next day it was still wet and I knew I had messed up. Luckily I was able to brush it out hard and it looked fine later.

Edited June 16, 2008 by ShineBrite LLC

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

I had to post again after looking at Rick's photos closer. I guess it's the difference in what you are used to using. I have left some laps with AC and it's easier to do on really hot days in full sun. I try to not get but maybe 5 boards ahead in my cutting in to prevent this. In the shade or on cooler days it's not a big deal. In AL it can be 80 and low humidity one day, and be 98 with 97% humidity and no clouds the next.

[John Orr 206]

Looking at the A-C website, it would appear that their Transparent colors (toners) are VERY similar to the Olympic Toners. For those trying the A-C, you might want to also try the Oly Toners. Oly has a few more colors (clear, honey gold, cedar, brown and redwood.) too.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

John, Have not used the toner...can ya say if it leaves a topical coat or is that mainly penetrating oils?

[John Orr 206]

John, Have not used the toner...can ya say if it leaves a topical coat or is that mainly penetrating oils?

Mainly oil. After application, you can walk on it within minutes without leaving footprints. (24 hr to completely dry.) No topical coat that can be seen. Toner has the consistency of products like Minwax, Old English or liquid shoe polish or mineral spirits.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Then yer saying the toner is a decnt departure from the max (brown can)?. You see that other thread where one of my HO's got the green can stuff all over the place with pump-up?..looked to be creating a film to me where he was actually able to get it on the fence, seemed no different in that case then the brown can..had shine, had lap marks from heavy application.

[rtate 14]

I haven't heard any mention of AC on hardwoods like ipe..

The Armstrong web site doen't seem to address exotics or have a specific formula for hardwoods that i could see.

Does anyone have any experience in this area??

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

One of my regular clients owns a lumber co that imports exotics. His decks and docks are combos of Ipe, cumaru, cumbaru, pt pine, spanish cedar and synthetics. Sort of a big experiment I guess. He has using pennofin that he buys himself on all the hardwoods, but it has turned dark on the cedar twice. He gave me some Ipe boards to try the AC on, but I have not done it yet. I need to try it and see... will post again. Maybe I'll get to it this weekend since this has come up.

[bigchaz 157]

Got ten gallons of the cedar semi trans coming that I'm going to try on a pressure treated deck in early july. Im pretty excited so we'll see how it goes

[John Orr 206]

There are no similarities between the Toner and the Semi Transparent. None. The film in the other thread appears to be Toner over some existing stain - I don't recognize the color.

Then yer saying the toner is a decnt departure from the max (brown can)?. You see that other thread where one of my HO's got the green can stuff all over the place with pump-up?..looked to be creating a film to me where he was actually able to get it on the fence, seemed no different in that case then the brown can..had shine, had lap marks from heavy application.

[YVPW 20]

Charlie AC's cedar is light to medium brown unlike most that are orange or orange red.

[bigchaz 157]

Charlie AC's cedar is light to medium brown unlike most that are orange or orange red.

Yea thats why I liked it. Ive been doing probably 90 percent of my decks in WTW brown sugar and I saw the sample from AC, the cedar looked very similar in tone.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

John, I'll review other thread to see yer latest response but just to keep clear for here.. that fence was new and the HO used green can Olympic Maximum which is first product listed under the 'toner' section. Is why I specifically ask which product you use that never laps or leaves film.

Edited June 19, 2008 by MMI Enterprises