Obama - Biden - Your Opinion ?

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

What do YOU think about THIS ticket

[Jeff 232]

I don't care what his middle name is, and I don't care that he's black. I care that he hasn't accomplished anything in his political life. I care that while he may be qualified under the constitution to be President, he hasn't shown or done anything that qualifies him, in my mind, to lead this nation.

I haven't seen anyone here even suggest that being black makes him a poor choice.

You think your wallet is hurting now? Wait until we have 4 or 8 years of a socialistic President trying to push through his socialistic agenda.

There are so so many reasons not to vote for this guy...give me one good reason TO vote for him? Change? What change? Pulling out of Iraq? We're already planning that.

He's not John McCain, thats a good reason. But really what reasons to vote for him. He is an educated man, very smart. He is willing to work with all sides, he's willing to compromise for the better good of all. GW who very rarely compromised and his with him or against him attitude his made many against US & John McCain who now has endorsed many of Bushes policies will possibly be the same way. Big biz and the biz administration of GW has hurt our country. Are we (the USA) better off than we were 8 years ago, I think NO, I dont think anyone can say we are and from what I hear from J McCain's it will be a lot of the same. He admits he knows very little about the economy and his top ex economy guru Phil Grahman says we are a bunch of whiners, says the economy is great. We it is for the top 1 or 2 % of Americans.

8 years ago I would have probably voted for McCain, I will not now, he has changed and from what I see its for the worst. Plus I just think he's to old to run our country

Now back to Obama, its a fact he would even have better poll #s if he wasn't black. I am not using the race card, but its true. I hear people all the time say they wont vote for Obama because he is black and if I hear it its probably the case in many areas of the country. Hell I had reservations because he was black, I'll admit it. sort like I have heard in the primaries "The best the Democrats can do is have a women or a black man" We know its an issue, no big deal

Now what wrong with a 48 year old man, that is very very smart, who wants good for our country, that will surround himself with smart people, that knows how it is to be poor and work hard to make something of himself, that hasn't been in Washington for ever. Whats wrong with a man like that being President

We know health care is messed up, we know Social Security will be in trouble, We know we are spending money we dont have, we know that the war should have been handled different from the beginning, we know big biz has taken advantage of deregulation and all Americans, , we know people wages are stagnant, We know we have to think of the future. We hear J McCain endorse, praise some of the same Bush policies and many Americans do not want to take the chance nothing will change, that our future is just more of the same, so yes when we hear change from a man running for President it means a lot to many Americans, we are willing to take that chance for change.

We as a country need a new way of looking at things and Obama is that and McCain just is not that anymore

Whoever wins I wish them the best, because I think if either one of them don't change things for the better, truly the better stop the partisianship once in office, work together, fight for us, they will be out in 4 years.

Is America better off than we were 8 years ago?

Edited August 27, 2008 by Jeff

[HotShot 34]

Rod....my dad was out of work for that time that Mr. Clinton shut down the gov't. Under President Bush unemployment numbers were lower than they were with Clinton nearly his entire term. The economy was better than it has ever been under President Bush's term especially given that WE WERE ATTACKED and had to go fight a war!!!

Jeff... Bush did too much compromising his second term and that is why a BUNCH of conservatives like myself have been unhappy with him. Amnesty for illegals isn't a compromise? C'mon dude.

I haven't read of anybody in this thread, nor do I know anybody personally that would not vote for Nobama because of his skin color. That is a very weak argument and it's always thrown in there by liberals. Here is one Black man that I would vote for in a heartbeat if he ever ran. I'm pretty sure that there are more minorities in positions of real authority under the Bush administration than there were under the Clinton admin. We conservatives often get labeled racists when the fact is we choose people that are the best for the job no matter what the ethnicity, not ones that are there to be a trophy.

If Nobama is so into change, why doesn't he come up with some ideas of his own. Everything he says is a repeat of some other hack before him.

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Things to think about before you vote:

• banks are failing - closing their doors
  
• inflation is at a 27 year high
  
• foreclosures are WAY up
  
• real estate values are down
  
• the market is off - what does YOUR 401K look like?!?!?!
  
• gas is through the roof
  
• food is increasing also - substantially
  
• tourism is OFF - anyone heard of a "staycation"
  
• retail outlets and small businesses are closing (some larger ones are shutting stores too - Starbucks shut 600)
  

I am willing to bet that on Black Friday (day after Thanksgiving) the retailers are WAY down. In fact I'll bet this holiday shopping season is going to be horrible.

Food for thought.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Rod....my dad was out of work for that time that Mr. Clinton shut down the gov't. Under President Bush unemployment numbers were lower than they were with Clinton nearly his entire term. The economy was better than it has ever been under President Bush's term especially given that WE WERE ATTACKED and had to go fight a war!!!

Jeff... Bush did too much compromising his second term and that is why a BUNCH of conservatives like myself have been unhappy with him. Amnesty for illegals isn't a compromise? C'mon dude.

I haven't read of anybody in this thread, nor do I know anybody personally that would not vote for Nobama because of his skin color. That is a very weak argument and it's always thrown in there by liberals. Here is one Black man that I would vote for in a heartbeat if he ever ran. I'm pretty sure that there are more minorities in positions of real authority under the Bush administration than there were under the Clinton admin. We conservatives often get labeled racists when the fact is we choose people that are the best for the job no matter what the ethnicity, not ones that are there to be a trophy.

If Nobama is so into change, why doesn't he come up with some ideas of his own. Everything he says is a repeat of some other hack before him.

Yeah, every republican blames the democrats for the state of things when they had to clean up the mess during their (dem) terms. Sorry I don't buy it. Keep this in mind, I read the papers and seen the news, who do you think you're selling? Dems fixed things while the reps kept taking advantage of it.

Believe what you will, I see what is going on.

Chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Averages since 1974

http://fraser.stlouisfed.org/publications/ERP/page/3/download/46769/http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/new/html/Fri_Jan_12_113936_2001.html3_ERP.pdf

Economic Report of the President: 2008 Report Spreadsheet Tables

Archived News Releases for Consumer Price Index

Look for yourselves.

Rod!~

Edited August 28, 2008 by Beth n Rod
added links

[plainpainter 217]

Rod - don't bother trying, republican ditto heads simply don't want to listen to facts. I mean take the whole 'liberal' press thing - you know the guys that own CBS, Viacom&Infinity Broadcast, and I know we both know that Viacom is a Socialist kind of company at it's core. Or ABC owned by Walt Disney - another obious 'Socialist' Company in Republican's clothing. And of course who can forget the owners of NBC - another claimed 'liberal' press station - who other than GE - another obvious pinko commie company to it's core. I mean come on - anyone who can be led to believe in the existence of a 'liberal' press, when all the owners of said liberal press are the giants of Capitalism - seriously needs some head examination.

Oh yeah so called 'Tax & Spend' Democrats - should be changed over to Tax & Spend Republicans - they have increased spending far more than any previous presidency in history.

And don't go telling me they've lowered your taxes - any administration that has increased spending and debt has indeed raised your taxes, even if you aren't paying them.

A LOAN FROM CHINA IS NOT A TAX CUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Things to think about before you vote:

• banks are failing - closing their doors
  
• inflation is at a 27 year high
  
• foreclosures are WAY up
  
• real estate values are down
  
• the market is off - what does YOUR 401K look like?!?!?!
  
• gas is through the roof
  
• food is increasing also - substantially
  
• tourism is OFF - anyone heard of a "staycation"
  
• retail outlets and small businesses are closing (some larger ones are shutting stores too - Starbucks shut 600)
  

I am willing to bet that on Black Friday (day after Thanksgiving) the retailers are WAY down. In fact I'll bet this holiday shopping season is going to be horrible.

Food for thought.

Beth

I judge the Economy from Forum Posts.

Posting seems way down on the forums.

[HotShot 34]

Things to think about before you vote:

• banks are failing - closing their doors - What's so bad about that?
  
• inflation is at a 27 year high - The Market adjusts itself
  
• foreclosures are WAY up - Because people spent way over their heads and rely on gov't to get them out.
  
• real estate values are down - See above
  
• the market is off - what does YOUR 401K look like?!?!?! - Where was the market before Dems took over Congress?
  
• gas is through the roof - Where was it before Dems took over Congress?
  
• food is increasing also - Because gas is "high"
  
• tourism is OFF - See above post
  
• retail outlets and small businesses are closing (some larger ones are shutting stores too - Starbucks shut 600) Competition maybe? Plus Starbucks coffee sucks and it's finally catching up to them..hahah
  

I am willing to bet that on Black Friday (day after Thanksgiving) the retailers are WAY down. In fact I'll bet this holiday shopping season is going to be horrible.

Food for thought.

Beth

Some more things to think about before you vote: The Democrats have blocked every attempt to rid ourselves from foreign oil thus high gas prices (which is causing the price of everything to rise). If Dems were so concerned about the American people then why do they choose to not have the option of drilling for our own oil?

Something else to think about: American has been 100% Al-Qaida free since 2001 with a republican in office. Lots of people seem to have forgotten that we were attacked 7 years ago and we are just fighting some silly war "over there" spending all of our precious money and running up the debt. I would rather be alive speaking English and have a debt to pay off than speaking Farsi or dead.

Edited August 28, 2008 by HotShot

[HotShot 34]

Oh yeah so called 'Tax & Spend' Democrats - should be changed over to Tax & Spend Republicans - they have increased spending far more than any previous presidency in history.

It's kinda funny.... We heard for years how Bush was cutting all of these "needed" programs like education and taking care of poor people and raiding the social security for old people..how horrible he was for taking all of their money. Now you're telling me that he is spending more than any other president? Make up your mind dude...

I don't agree with all of the money he has spent, but I would probably disagree with you as to where he should be spending it. Foreign Aid is one of them. These countries that make policies against America, should have NO foreign aid. Screw them.

Bail outs- I don't think the gov't should be bailing out private companies for their stupidity. Sub-prime lender bailout really chapped my butt. Give loans to a bunch of welfare recipients that have no credit because of their bad choices and guess what? You're gonna have problems.

Without writing a book here, I will just say that Bush has spent a lot of money and this is one of the problems that I have with his second term. He compromised with liberals and spent WAY too much money.

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

IMHO, the bailout for homeowners is BS.

Facing Foreclosure ?

Too Freaking Bad.

Many of these scumbags got easy to get loans, and many made a fortune in real estate by using the easy to get loans to buy and sell houses.'

NOW, the market has dropped, and they want a bail out ?

You get in over your head and live high on the Hog, don't ask the American People to save you ?

[Jeff 232]

Rod....my dad was out of work for that time that Mr. Clinton shut down the gov't. Under President Bush unemployment numbers were lower than they were with Clinton nearly his entire term. The economy was better than it has ever been under President Bush's term especially given that WE WERE ATTACKED and had to go fight a war!!!

Jeff... Bush did too much compromising his second term and that is why a BUNCH of conservatives like myself have been unhappy with him. Amnesty for illegals isn't a compromise? C'mon dude.

I haven't read of anybody in this thread, nor do I know anybody personally that would not vote for Nobama because of his skin color. That is a very weak argument and it's always thrown in there by liberals. Here is one Black man that I would vote for in a heartbeat if he ever ran. I'm pretty sure that there are more minorities in positions of real authority under the Bush administration than there were under the Clinton admin. We conservatives often get labeled racists when the fact is we choose people that are the best for the job no matter what the ethnicity, not ones that are there to be a trophy.

If Nobama is so into change, why doesn't he come up with some ideas of his own. Everything he says is a repeat of some other hack before him.

Ant I cant see how you say the economy in whole is good now, it just amazes me. Unemployeement #'s, GDP #"s all can be juggled around to look different, they dont count people that have no unemployement bennies left, they cant count the workers that now make only a percentage of what the used to, they all do it, there are now millions of people who are making less than they did just 6 years ago or now have to have two lower paying jobs instead of one good paying jobs. The economy is hurting because corperations can do what they want, no regulations no oversight, we are bailing out banks, mortgage companies, investment companies. EVEN the FDIC may need a loan to cover the banking crisis HOW CAN you say that is a good economy?

Bush didnt comprimise on illegals, I will give you Democratic politicians are on the wrong side of the immigration thaing, BUT BUSH is just as bad as them or WORSE, you cant blame the DEMS , BUSH wants them all in here, the dems are just taking the bus ride with Bush. Comprimise? He tells the whole world its his way or no way, he says this one or that one is the Evil Empire and wont talk to them unless they do what he says, thats not comprimise, thats just horrible diplomacy, he had no foreign affairs back ground befor becoming president and it show and it has hurt us in the whole world, since Bush has been in, NO country really trust the USA, because Bush

The Racist thing, I am not laying on just Republicans, I know plenty of Democrats the WILL NOT vote for a black man, I know theres jokes out there that if he is president he wont be for long because someone will kill him, would they think that if it was a young 48 year old white guy running for president. Racism is in all sections of this world I am not blaming it on anyone group, WE are all racist, just a fact of life

No McCain, its just another Bushie trying to give big biz tax breaks on the working mans back. We have another 4 years of republican rule, it will just be the same old crap. Is the country better off today than it was before bush NO

have a great day Ant

[PPC 37]

all drinking too much obama and clinton kool-aid!!!!

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Ant I cant see how you say the economy in whole is good now, it just amazes me. Unemployeement #'s, GDP #"s all can be juggled around to look different, they dont count people that have no unemployement bennies left, they cant count the workers that now make only a percentage of what the used to, they all do it, there are now millions of people who are making less than they did just 6 years ago or now have to have two lower paying jobs instead of one good paying jobs. The economy is hurting because corperations can do what they want, no regulations no oversight, we are bailing out banks, mortgage companies, investment companies. EVEN the FDIC may need a loan to cover the banking crisis HOW CAN you say that is a good economy?

Bush didnt comprimise on illegals, I will give you Democratic politicians are on the wrong side of the immigration thaing, BUT BUSH is just as bad as them or WORSE, you cant blame the DEMS , BUSH wants them all in here, the dems are just taking the bus ride with Bush. Comprimise? He tells the whole world its his way or no way, he says this one or that one is the Evil Empire and wont talk to them unless they do what he says, thats not comprimise, thats just horrible diplomacy, he had no foreign affairs back ground befor becoming president and it show and it has hurt us in the whole world, since Bush has been in, NO country really trust the USA, because Bush

The Racist thing, I am not laying on just Republicans, I know plenty of Democrats the WILL NOT vote for a black man, I know theres jokes out there that if he is president he wont be for long because someone will kill him, would they think that if it was a young 48 year old white guy running for president. Racism is in all sections of this world I am not blaming it on anyone group, WE are all racist, just a fact of life

No McCain, its just another Bushie trying to give big biz tax breaks on the working mans back. We have another 4 years of republican rule, it will just be the same old crap. Is the country better off today than it was before bush NO

have a great day Ant

Well put Jeff!!!

Beth

[Jeff 232]

It's kinda funny.... We heard for years how Bush was cutting all of these "needed" programs like education and taking care of poor people and raiding the social security for old people..how horrible he was for taking all of their money. Now you're telling me that he is spending more than any other president? Make up your mind dude...

I don't agree with all of the money he has spent, but I would probably disagree with you as to where he should be spending it. Foreign Aid is one of them. These countries that make policies against America, should have NO foreign aid. Screw them.

Bail outs- I don't think the gov't should be bailing out private companies for their stupidity. Sub-prime lender bailout really chapped my butt. Give loans to a bunch of welfare recipients that have no credit because of their bad choices and guess what? You're gonna have problems.

Without writing a book here, I will just say that Bush has spent a lot of money and this is one of the problems that I have with his second term. He compromised with liberals and spent WAY too much money.

How can you blame the dems, 6 out of his 8 years it was a republican congress WTF more do you want. He DID NOT VETO A SINGLE spending bill while the congress was under republican control. So he approved so much pork, we could feed the world BBQ forever. Don'tr BLAME the dams, look at YOUR president Welfare, theres a lot more Corporate Welfare than anything else

OIL , he's a god damn oil man himself

You may be to young to remember the Savings & Loan Crisis many years ago, but some of the bailout money went to the Bush family, the very same, yup we bailed them out. Bush owned several businesses and many or all went out of business and investors lost, he Bush made money maybe , but others got screwed sound like how it is now, his cronnies make $$$$$ and we get screwed.

Screw Bush, one of the worst President EVER, he's right up there with Jimmy Carter as president and McCain want to follow Bushes footprint, God help us

[James 624]

I am of the opinion that neither candidate is going to institute much change. This country is in deep trouble do too big money(lobbyist,corporations , special interest groups) they control the congress and keep the people out. The Mortgage fiasco was created in-part to small loopholes created by changes to some laws. "Legal Thievery it's called" ? Now some of the companies that made the most money ( in their pockets) and loosing on the books are lining for the bailout money ( Corporate Welfare).

Any person is going to be better than the Team of DUMB @ DUMMER (Bush/ Chenny). The World hates us, the Oil crisis , Mortgage crisis, Katrina crisis, Perscrip Drug crisis , Gas crisis, Health care crisis, American Dollar crisis, Middle East crisis

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

And who made the no money down loans on home available?

The opportunity was there and you cant blame people for chasing "The American Dream" of owning a home. A.R.M.'s were the worst thing ever devised. And in order to make them available, the government had to subsidize the initiation of the program same as F.D.I.C..

Bush compromised? HA! He went head long into a war without congress's blessing. It was under the national security cry that he pushed us into a war and still to this day has never caught the supposed one we went there to begin with to capture.

Don't give me that guff. He had every intention of finishing daddy's war and chasing the oil exploration rights in Iraq.

I'll stop here as I think I made my position clear. I don't approve of what has been going on with the republican party and after so many years of being one, I changed my status.

Vote DEM '08!

Rod!~

Edited August 28, 2008 by Beth n Rod
additional info

[tattwd 14]

Its a winning ticket, thats what I think.

[Kirk 14]

So who's going to watch Obamas acceptance speech tonight? (Ya - I know "I won't waste my time because (fill in the blank) _____. ) I'm sure I will watch a good portion of the repub convention. I think if you are one of those with such strong negative feelings about Obama you really should watch it to find out about his views FIRST HAND. And then be able to form YOUR OWN opinions about what areas you are really in disagreement about.

Kirk

[Kirk 14]

Please allow me this cut and paste that pretty well sums up the view of many of us cool-aid drinking, radical, insane, socialist folk who make up the view of probably most of America. The radical middle. Yes I am lazy (outside of work), and my composition sucks and I don't care to write my own post to try and show my intelligence or to use a bunch of time trying to.

What is the Radical Middle?

The Founders of this nation represented the first Radical Middle. Back then they called it "being liberal." As George Washington said, "As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."

They didn't want King George or his military or corporate agents snooping in their houses, mails, or private matters; preventing them from organizing together and speaking out in public in protest of government actions; imprisoning them without access to attorneys, due process, or trials by juries of their peers; or reserving rights to himself that they felt should rest with the people or their elected representatives. (They ultimately wrote all of these in the Bill of Rights in our Constitution.)

They also didn't want giant transnational corporations dominating their lives or their local economies. When, in 1773, King George III signed the Tea Act - a massive tax cut for the British East India Company - they protested this first attempt to WalMart-itize America by preventing the Company's ships from landing in several cities up and down the eastern seaboard, and boarding and destroying over a million dollars (in today's money) of tea in the ships that did dock in Boston. This was the beginning, by the Radical Middle, of the American Revolution.

The Radical Middle has always believed in fairness and democracy, and understood that completely unrestrained business activity and massive accumulations of wealth into a very few hands can endanger democratic institutions.

As James Madison said, "There is an evil which ought to be guarded against in the indefinite accumulation of property from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by … corporations. The power of all corporations ought to be limited in this respect. The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses." Similarly, John Adams wrote that when "economic power become concentrated in a few hands, then political power flowed to those possessors and away from the citizens, ultimately resulting in an oligarchy or tyranny."

Thomas Paine, among others, wrote at length about the dangers to a free people of the massive accumulation of wealth, and following the excesses of the Gilded Age - which led to massive corruption of the American government by corporate and wealth-based interests - laws were put into place limiting the size and behavior of corporations (such as the Sherman Anti-Trust Act), and taxing inheritance of the most massive of family estates so that a new hereditary aristocracy wouldn't emerge in the nation that had thrown off the economic and political oppressions of the hereditary aristocracy of England.

The Radical Middle always believed in the idea of a commons - the things that we all own collectively, and administer the way we want through our elected representatives. Our parks, roads, police, fire, schools, and our government itself. Our ability to vote in fair and transparent elections. Our military and defense. Our systems for protecting our air, water, food, and pharmaceuticals. Our ability to retire in safety if we've worked hard and played the game by the rules, and to know that an illness won't financially wipe us out.

Regardless of electoral politics (since both of the major political parties often overlook these values, and both have become corrupted by wealth and corporate influence), poll after poll shows that the vast majority of Americans embrace the values of the Radical Middle.

In recent years, America has been hijacked by the Radical Right. Corporations now write most of our legislation. Our elected representatives cater to the interests of wealth rather than what is best for the commons we collectively own, or what will sustain that bulwark of democracy known as the middle class. They have, in large part, seized control of our media, wiped out our family farms, and wiped out small, middle-class-owned businesses from our towns and cities. They seek a "merger of corporate and state interests" - a definition Mussolini used for what he called "fascism."

The Radical Right has even gone so far as to use sophisticated psychological programming tools, like Newt Gingrich's infamous "word list," to paint the Radical Middle as some sort of insidious anti-Americanism.

We in the Radical Middle are calling for nothing less than a restoration of democracy, of government of, by, and for We The People, in a world that works for all.

[Rick2 42]

My Girlfriend likes Mitt Romney, because he is handsome:lgbonk:

Here's a couple pictures of Mitt.

[Jeff 232]

Here's a couple pictures of Mitt.

LOL LOL

Go Obama, no I mean McCain, no Obama ahhhh who gives a cr*p

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Here's a couple pictures of Mitt.

Sorry to say this but that is a pic of John Kerry...uh and his alter ego I guess.

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

Very powerful acceptance speech and well staged theatrics. Have not voted for a Democrat in a presidential election since George McGovern in '72, but am going to keep an eye on this guy with the funny name.

David Brooks of The New York Times has a hilarious column this morning, worth going out and buying the paper. Its a tongue in cheek poke at campaign speeches, just a sample:

It’s about the future, and Barack Obama loves the future because that’s where all his accomplishments are.

We meet today to pass the torch to a new generation of Americans, a generation that came of age amidst iced chais and mocha strawberry Frappuccinos®, a generation with a historical memory that doesn’t extend back past Coke Zero.

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Sorry to say this but that is a pic of John Kerry...uh and his alter ego I guess.

Rod!~

I like John Kerry! He's a smart man and was able to answer questions during the presidential debates, on topic, without sounding canned - like every answer was the same regardless of the question! (unlike DUH-ble-yah)

Beth

[Scott Stone 604]

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

I know it is very popular to say Bush did not have congressional approval to use military force in Iraq, but, it is a bit revisionist. The above link is the White House link to the approval and you will see it happened in November 2002.

[Rick2 42]

Sorry to say this but that is a pic of John Kerry...uh and his alter ego I guess.

Rod!~

Opps, sorry. Got John and Mitt mixed up there for a second. Being from Taxachusetts I should know better. Guess it was too early in the morning.