Your Opinions On Rebuilding New Orleans ?

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

What do you guys THINK about rebuilding New Orleans ?

SHOULD we have spent all that Money, TWICE ?

Hurricane Gustav is heading right at it.

Now, IF Gustav hits, what do we do ?

Spend MORE Taxpayers Money for a City that AIN"T supposed to be there anyway ?

Maybe it is time to give up ?

[Thad 135]

Thad, had YOU built the levees, who do you think would be held responsible for their failure?

Oh, I get blamed for everything.

:)

I guess my point is that there is no easy answer.

Parts of the city are 300 years old and some are relatively new and only habitable because the swamps were drained. The coastal marshes are deteriorating rapidly and they were the main buffers for hurricanes.

It will take decades and billions to rebuild the marshes, assuming that we can even stop the erosion. The port is crucial for imports and oil and if the marsh goes, the port goes. The levees are a band-aid fix for a much larger problem. We can spend the money on levees that will still fail at some point as saltwater intrusion destroys the protective marshlands.

Where do we start?

[HotShot 34]

Where do we start?

We start with electing Nobama... He will fix everything.

Where is the puke smiley?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Where do we start?

Well not on things that are not related such as rebuilding homes in a swamp that, if I hear right, should be there.

[Big Bill 14]

I was going to stay away from this thread, but some of the things that have been said here really have my blood to boiling point.

Firstly, a little history....I was born in NOLA in Charity Hospital (not a charity case, my father was doing his residency and internship), so I am a native New Orleanian. I was raised in the NOLA area (actually a suburb north of Lake Pontchatrain). NOLA has a lot of great things about it, but in the last few decades the greatness that this city had has been diminishing. One of the greatest things is it's history. Another great thing is the heritage and the food. I have been all over the world, you will not find better food anywhere like you will in NOLA.

The root of just about all the problems that plague this city is the fact that a large % of the population is welfare dependent, just like is happening to most inner cities in America. With this welfare dependent population comes a multitude of problems, the biggest being what you saw during and after Katrina (where was the gov't, they didn't do their job to help me etc.) Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but when somebody tells me that a Cat 5 hurricane is about to blow up my ass, I know I will have to move my ass to a safe place, and it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to get there. But in NOLA, for the last few decades, a lot of the population has been so dependent on the gov't, they actually think it is not their personal responsibility for even their daily survival needs. This is not solely a race thing either, as there are not only blacks that live by this belief, but also whites and other ethnic backgrounds also. Did our gov't fail these people, HELL YEAH, but it was long before Katrina blew into town. Katrina only brought this problem to light to the national and international level. Our gov't (local, state, and Feds) need to stop this now, or you will see it grow more nation wide.

Hey Ant, I know you and others were greatly disappointed with your visit to NOLA, and that greatly disappoints me. I could not attend Thad's NOLA roundtable because I was offshore working, but I wish that I could have been there to show you more of the greatness of NOLA, believe me, it is there beyond the sight of the French Quarter. Ant, I know you are a sportsman, I would love to show you why they call Louisiana "Sportsman's Paradise"

Chris, I sure hope a hurricane doesn't hit Tampa, I would hate to know you had to wait hours in line for MRE's and 1 bag of ice.

I could write more about all of this, but I think this will be a never ending story.

[Big Bill 14]

Oh, I get blamed for everything.

:)

I guess my point is that there is no easy answer.

Parts of the city are 300 years old and some are relatively new and only habitable because the swamps were drained. The coastal marshes are deteriorating rapidly and they were the main buffers for hurricanes.

It will take decades and billions to rebuild the marshes, assuming that we can even stop the erosion. The port is crucial for imports and oil and if the marsh goes, the port goes. The levees are a band-aid fix for a much larger problem. We can spend the money on levees that will still fail at some point as saltwater intrusion destroys the protective marshlands.

Where do we start?

You are right, Thad - there is no easy answer.

[Scott Stone 604]

You know, NOLA is full of trashy people. Porn Stars, strippers, hookers and whores that populate a lot of the seedier areas of the city. With the Porn Stars, strippers, hookers and whores, there are people like Chris from Apple Roof Cleaning, and Don Phelps from All seasons exteriors or Florida Roof Cleaning, that are just trying to make an honest living.

[Don Phelps 85]

You know, NOLA is full of trashy people. Porn Stars, strippers, hookers and whores that populate a lot of the seedier areas of the city. With the Porn Stars, strippers, hookers and whores, there are people like Chris from Apple Roof Cleaning, and Don Phelps from All seasons exteriors or Florida Roof Cleaning, that are just trying to make an honest living.

I'm sure you would like for me to take your bait, Scott. I'll take the high road and handle it a different way.

If you're a moderator here, you should act a little more professional.

I know more about what's being said elsewhere than you and others might think.

Have a good night! :)

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Scott..that might be the best reason I heard yet on why not to go there.... I mean I can deal with porn stars, strippers and whores but the hookers and honest living people ya got to watch out for. :)

ps- is there dif between whores and a hooker? Maybe one has a better pimp or some such?

Edited September 1, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[HotShot 34]

I was going to stay away from this thread, but some of the things that have been said here really have my blood to boiling point.

Firstly, a little history....I was born in NOLA in Charity Hospital (not a charity case, my father was doing his residency and internship), so I am a native New Orleanian. I was raised in the NOLA area (actually a suburb north of Lake Pontchatrain). NOLA has a lot of great things about it, but in the last few decades the greatness that this city had has been diminishing. One of the greatest things is it's history. Another great thing is the heritage and the food. I have been all over the world, you will not find better food anywhere like you will in NOLA.

The root of just about all the problems that plague this city is the fact that a large % of the population is welfare dependent, just like is happening to most inner cities in America. With this welfare dependent population comes a multitude of problems, the biggest being what you saw during and after Katrina (where was the gov't, they didn't do their job to help me etc.) Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but when somebody tells me that a Cat 5 hurricane is about to blow up my ass, I know I will have to move my ass to a safe place, and it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to get there. But in NOLA, for the last few decades, a lot of the population has been so dependent on the gov't, they actually think it is not their personal responsibility for even their daily survival needs. This is not solely a race thing either, as there are not only blacks that live by this belief, but also whites and other ethnic backgrounds also. Did our gov't fail these people, HELL YEAH, but it was long before Katrina blew into town. Katrina only brought this problem to light to the national and international level. Our gov't (local, state, and Feds) need to stop this now, or you will see it grow more nation wide.

Hey Ant, I know you and others were greatly disappointed with your visit to NOLA, and that greatly disappoints me. I could not attend Thad's NOLA roundtable because I was offshore working, but I wish that I could have been there to show you more of the greatness of NOLA, believe me, it is there beyond the sight of the French Quarter. Ant, I know you are a sportsman, I would love to show you why they call Louisiana "Sportsman's Paradise"

Chris, I sure hope a hurricane doesn't hit Tampa, I would hate to know you had to wait hours in line for MRE's and 1 bag of ice.

I could write more about all of this, but I think this will be a never ending story.

Wow, great post Bill.

If I ever gave the impression that I didn't have a blast in NOLA, I gave the wrong impression. I made the comment several times to the greasers I hung out with that once you turn off of that God forbidden street, it's a pretty city. Most of my pics consist of daytime entertainment that was within walking distance of where we stayed. Places with a lot of history and one of the greasers was from there and told me a lot about it. It was really cool.

Other than being sick (pneumonia, sinus infection and both ears infected come to find out when I got home) and the waltz down Bourbon street, I had a great time. Meeting all of the guys that could make it was the best part though, by far.

Here is one of the pics I took. These are the kinds of pics that I took mostly.

[HotShot 34]

Here is another one.

[Thad 135]

Like I told you, Ant- Don't judge New Orleans by Bourbon St.

That's just where they keep the stupid tourists.

Oops!

[PWkid 79]

Bill ,great post, I hope all is well during Gustav.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I think Scott S. made his point. Those who have done similar - not pointing a finger because you all know who you are - need to realize we are not stupid and will not tolerate it. Thank you Scott, for your ongoing support.

Beth

[Thad 135]

I'm slow on the uptake, I know.

I have no idea what Scott was referring to but I laughed anyway.

:-/

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

SEO...keywords...Google asphalt tile shingle barrel roof cleaning washing Florida posting wars....

Beth :sunshine: :cup:

[Scott Stone 604]

It is always nice being chastized for profesionalism by one of the roof guys. It keeps me entertained.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

It is always nice being chastized for profesionalism by one of the roof guys. It keeps me entertained.

Grounded too I bet....

Anyone calling you unprofessional needs to look in the magic mirror!

"Romper, bomper, stomper, boo.

Tell me, tell me, tell me do.

Magic mirror, tell me today.

Did all my friends have fun at play?"

Beth

[Scott Stone 604]

LOL, your age is showing.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yeah well, that was bound to happen. I was REAAAALLLY little....

Beth

p.s.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Romper Room is a children's television series which ran in the United States from 1953 to 1994 as well as at various times in Canada, Australia, Northern Ireland, Great Britain, Puerto Rico and Japan. The program was targeted at pre-schoolers (children five years of age or younger).

Edited September 1, 2008 by Beth n Rod
PS

[MMI Enterprises 289]

So I'm watching fox and they are reviewing how the industrial wall held and talkin to the Army Corps of Engineers about it...Part they looking at they say it designed to hold to the top which is from about 12-15' depending on section.It was being topped by this relatively small storm. If I understand correctly that part they consider done and is at a 100 year level?. Are they serious and only call the 10-12' surge they got from a cat 2 hurricane as being only on average a 100 year thing? Anyone know what level surge a 500 year plan would hold or why they shoot so low in their protection goal? I just don't get it I guess.. I mean all this talk about how much money, time, and effort they putting into it over last few year and the area is still a disaster waiting to happen.

I do not believe that the level of protection being shot for by 2011 is what the American people expect...just a silly band aid if ya ask me!

What's that country that built a huge wall with doors to keep the ocean out?

Edited September 2, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[centexpw 16]

New Orleans needs to downsize. I think they should get a set number of dollars, They are going to get some anyway. Make due with what they get. Have a garage sale for the rest.

[racechaser 64]

Well I really try not to post often here in case I get indexed into a thread that goes astray. But I have to set afew things into context.

The first is the levees caused the flooding. They were built substandard to todays technology.

How New Orleans Flooded

Here is a diagram of how the levees failed in 05'. The corp came back and installed concrete on top of levee near base of levee so that overtopping would not wash it away.

There are flood gates being built to block the surge from the lake and pumps installed in canal to pump water to lake.

This was no new idea, it was on the list of things to be done for oner 15 years but the corp was underfunded. you see each of these floodgates were 6 million dollars each. Pennies compared to the 150 BILLION that was spent to rebuild from government.

The people knew it needed to be done but had no control cause it was federal.

These new floodgates will be the first line of defense and the levees the second line of defense.

Point two is that New Orleans had never had a levee breach anything close to this before.

So people were a little negligent in not leaving. BUT, and it's a BIG but, is that when you convince people in a metropolis that they don't need a car and should rely on a Mass Transit System you will have this problem.When you can go to work and the store and everywhere else for less than two dollars a day why own a car? Now how do the 100,000 or so people get out of a city when they don't own a car? Plus where are they gonna go? There were no shelters provided for them that they could have evacuated to that were just sitting empy.

Point three is this happened to the poorest people in the city on the 29th day of the month. Like most people there was more month than money. Should they have savings accounts for emergencies?? Yes but that is a STUPID point to try to make so save it. What average American lower income level family anywhere in America has an adequate fund.

Point four is that most poor people in NOLA earn minimum wage in the tourism and service industries. Yes there are a lot of leeches on the economy there but the majority are hard working, poorly paid people. It is not full of scum as many believe. They are black. They are very black. It is a cultural thing.It is not necessarily a bad thing as you may be led to believe. 85% of the people are good people that have been bred into a system that is truly hard to get out of. I have rental property in diverse neighborhood in Hammond where I live. In the middle of the day people(black men) will always stop me and ask I'm starting any work on my house cause they want a side job. Yes they are double dipping, they all are, but they are working and they DO WORK. Is it really there fault that for generations they have been bought off by a liberal party to buy their vote.

Point five is that something like 80% of oil and natural gas come ashore in La. Who is going to work in oil and chem business and drive two hours to work so they are above sea level? And the port, where should we move the port to? Kinda hard to move the port when the deepest part of the river is NOLA.Where do you think the grain from midwest comes out through?

There are many reasons to support NOLA so that levee failures don't happen again.There are European countries that are below sea level and protected themselves with levees and locks. They are not nearly as economically important as NOLA.

And how about everytime California has an earthquake I say how we should let it slide into the ocean and cheer because it is full of gays and left wing whack jobs?? Would that be a fair characterization ANT? I mean I spent a week in L.A. in January of 06'. I rode subways, buses and and I know ya'll would have the same urban rescue problems we had.

Scott

Edited September 4, 2008 by racechaser

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Well I really try not to post often here in case I get indexed into a thread that goes astray. But I have to set afew things into context.

The first is the levees caused the flooding. They were built substandard to todays technology.

How New Orleans Flooded

Here is a diagram of how the levees failed in 05'. The corp came back and installed concrete on top of levee near base of levee so that overtopping would not wash it away.

There are flood gates being built to block the surge from the lake and pumps installed in canal to pump water to lake.

This was no new idea, it was on the list of things to be done for oner 15 years but the corp was underfunded. you see each of these floodgates were 6 million dollars each. Pennies compared to the 150 BILLION that was spent to rebuild from government.

The people knew it needed to be done but had no control cause it was federal.

These new floodgates will be the first line of defense and the levees the second line of defense.

Point two is that New Orleans had never had a levee breach anything close to this before.

So people were a little negligent in not leaving. BUT, and it's a BIG but, is that when you convince people in a metropolis that they don't need a car and should rely on a Mass Transit System you will have this problem.When you can go to work and the store and everywhere else for less than two dollars a day why own a car? Now how do the 100,000 or so people get out of a city when they don't own a car? Plus where are they gonna go? There were no shelters provided for them that they could have evacuated to that were just sitting empy.

Point three is this happened to the poorest people in the city on the 29th day of the month. Like most people there was more month than money. Should they have savings accounts for emergencies?? Yes but that is a STUPID point to try to make so save it. What average American lower income level family anywhere in America has an adequate fund.

Point four is that most poor people in NOLA earn minimum wage in the tourism and service industries. Yes there are a lot of leeches on the economy there but the majority are hard working, poorly paid people. It is not full of scum as many believe. They are black. They are very black. It is a cultural thing.It is not necessarily a bad thing as you may be led to believe. 85% of the people are good people that have been bred into a system that is truly hard to get out of. I have rental property in diverse neighborhood in Hammond where I live. In the middle of the day people(black men) will always stop me and ask I'm starting any work on my house cause they want a side job. Yes they are double dipping, they all are, but they are working and they DO WORK. Is it really there fault that for generations they have been bought off by a liberal party to buy their vote.

Point five is that something like 80% of oil and natural gas come ashore in La. Who is going to work in oil and chem business and drive two hours to work so they are above sea level? And the port, where should we move the port to? Kinda hard to move the port when the deepest part of the river is NOLA.Where do you think the grain from midwest comes out through?

There are many reasons to support NOLA so that levee failures don't happen again.There are European countries that are below sea level and protected themselves with levees and locks. They are not nearly as economically important as NOLA.

And how about everytime California has an earthquake I say how we should let it slide into the ocean and cheer because it is full of gays and left wing whack jobs?? Would that be a fair characterization ANT? I mean I spent a week in L.A. in January of 06'. I rode subways, buses and and I know ya'll would have the same urban rescue problems we had.

Scott

Thank you Scott! :)

Beth

[racechaser 64]

Beth

If your dad or Kate need anything have them call me. I forgot to drive by their house but that part of town fared well except for trees. If your stepbrother is deployed with LDWF somewhere and you want me to stop and check on them this weekend I'll be glad to.That is if he's like the typical dad and won't ask for help from anyone else.

Scott

[HotShot 34]

when you convince people in a metropolis that they don't need a car and should rely on a Mass Transit System you will have this problem.

Very good point Scott. When you depend on the gov't for ANYTHING, you are asking for trouble. Very good point though, I had never really thought about that.

Now how do the 100,000 or so people get out of a city when they don't own a car?

Walk, ride a bicycle...whatever. I guaran-freakin-Tee you that I wouldn't be standing on my porch demanding that the gov't get me outa there!

Plus where are they gonna go? There were no shelters provided for them that they could have evacuated to that were just sitting empy.

Do you hear yourself? Provided for them? Get out of harms way, THEN ask for help. I bet they could have walked into just about any church and asked for help. (not 100K of them, but the ones that had the wisdom to walk away from the danger if there were no other way)

Point three is this happened to the poorest people in the city on the 29th day of the month.

More gov't dependency that they choose to receive and it ends up putting them in a bind.

Like most people there was more month than money. Should they have savings accounts for emergencies?? Yes but that is a STUPID point to try to make so save it. What average American lower income level family anywhere in America has an adequate fund.

Why is that stupid? I'm not talking about an adequate savings fund to last for a year. But an emergency fund to take you out a couple weeks until you can get a job or at least a bus ticket or something to get you to a family member's house for some help.

Point four is that most poor people in NOLA earn minimum wage in the tourism and service industries. Yes there are a lot of leeches on the economy there but the majority are hard working, poorly paid people. It is not full of scum as many believe. They are black. They are very black. It is a cultural thing.It is not necessarily a bad thing as you may be led to believe. 85% of the people are good people that have been bred into a system that is truly hard to get out of.

This is America, they make a choice to be in their situation. Or, they have made a choice to put them in their situation. Either way, IF they want out of the situation, then its up to them to get out of it. So what if it's hard? My goodness, crawling around in a greasey duct with pnuemonia, a sinus infection and 2 ear infections isn't the easiest thing I've ever done, but by cracky, I did it for 13 hours today. (well, some of that time was driving, but still)

Point five is that something like 80% of oil and natural gas come ashore in La. Who is going to work in oil and chem business and drive two hours to work so they are above sea level? And the port, where should we move the port to? Kinda hard to move the port when the deepest part of the river is NOLA.Where do you think the grain from midwest comes out through?

There are many reasons to support NOLA so that levee failures don't happen again.There are European countries that are below sea level and protected themselves with levees and locks. They are not nearly as economically important as NOLA.

Now this point is HUGE. I don't know the economics of NOLA like you do Scott, so I'll take your word for it. It sounds like NOLA is vital to our economy, therefore, it should be protected/rebuilt whatever.

how about everytime California has an earthquake I say how we should let it slide into the ocean and cheer because it is full of gays and left wing whack jobs??

This statement is very true. However, you would not see me or my family standing on a pile of rubble waving at helicopters asking for a ride.

I rode subways, buses and and I know ya'll would have the same urban rescue problems we had.

Scott

When I went to New York a few years ago everybody told me that I just HAD to ride the subway...just to say I did it. I have never been more disgusted in my entire life. Well, except for that one time when Hilary Clinton wore a skirt....thinking about that still gives me the willies. But anyway, my wife and I get on the subway...within the first 30 seconds of this wonderful trip a guy starts puking his guts out not 10 feet away. As lovely as that sounds, it gets better.

We go to another car to try and outrun the stinch of vomit and lo and behold there is a guy sitting there treating his body like an amusement park ( to steal a quote from George's mom on Seinfeld). Nobody says anything or even pays the guy any attention.

My point is why would anybody want to ride on something like that? You say it's only a couple dollars a day...well, then they should have a good savings account built up them right? :D

You guys keep saying how wonderful the refugees from NOLA are...have you ever talked to people in neighboring states that welcomed these low-lifes? They have a MUCH different opinion. We have the same kind of refugee influx here in southern California, they come here waste everything in site, rob people, steal, crash into cars and leave because they don't have a drivers license, work for pennies on the dollar compared to the average American....they are called illegal aliens and they are from Mexico.

I hate to say it, but at least I have a little bit of admiration for them because the gov't didn't help them get over here, they WALKED!!!