Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Beth n Rod

      The Grime Scene Terms Of Service and Forum Rules   08/23/2007

      Terms of Service Warning: The contracting trades are an activity in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ALL Users must read and agree to these Terms of Service before using this site. This web site is dedicated to the contracting trades, an activity which is inherently dangerous. You should not depend on information gleaned from this site for your personal safety. Your safety depends upon your own judgment based on competent instruction, experience, and a realistic assessment of ability. There are no warranties, either expressed or implied, that the information on this website are accurate and reliable. Your use of this site indicates your assumption of the risk of death or serious injury and is an acknowledgment of your own sole responsibility for your safety. The following terms and conditions are in reference to the The Grime Scene web site and discussion board (www.thegrimescene.com), here in referred to as "The Grime Scene". These terms and conditions apply to all sites, services, and resources within the The Grime Scene. ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS The Grime Scene provides its service to you, subject to the following Terms of Service (referred to as "TOS"), which may be updated by us from time to time without notice. You may review the most current version of the TOS at any time in the Announcements. In addition, when using particular The Grime Scene services, you shall be subject to any posted guidelines or rules applicable to such services.
      [*]DESCRIPTION OF SERVICE The Grime Scene provides users with access to informational resources including communication and interactive resources pertaining to the contracting industry. Under no circumstances shall The Grime Scene be liable to any user on account of that user's use or misuse of the site or reliance on the site. Such limitation of liability shall apply to prevent recovery of direct, indirect, incidental, consequential, special, punitive and exemplary damages (even if The Grime Scene has been advised of the possibility of such damages). Such limitation of liability shall apply whether the damages arise from use or misuse of the site or reliance on the site, from inability to use the site, or from the interruption, suspension, or termination of the site or services offered on the site (including such damages incurred by third parties).
      Such limitation shall also apply with respect to damages incurred by reason of other services or goods received through or advertised on the site or received through any links provided on the site. .Such limitation shall apply, without limitation, to the costs of procurement of substitute goods or services, lost profits, or lost data. These limitations shall apply notwithstanding any failure of essential purpose of any limited remedy. The Grime Scene makes no warranties as to the accuracy of its information and due to the volatile nature of the information contained within The Grime Scene. The Grime Scene can not screen or authenticate all articles, posts, listings or other information.
      [*]TERMS OF MEMBERSHIP & USAGE RESTRICTIONS Site Membership Membership is available to any person over the age of 13 who registers and accurately provides all the required information, provides a legitimate electronic mail address and obtains a unique The Grime Scene member name and password. Membership is non-transferable. The use of web-based email accounts may be denied due to abuse.
      All membership information must be accurate and belong to the person registering. Invalid, incomplete, or falsified information can result in the immediate termination of all membership privileges for that user and, possibly a permanent ban, restricting the member from using any of The Grime Scene’s services at any time.
      Usage of this site is restricted to persons under the age of 13. (you must be over 13 to participate here)
      The Grime Scene is not responsible for the content of any member's posts, and the views expressed on The Grime Scene are the responsibility of the posting member and not The Grime Scene. The Grime Scene does not preview member posts in any way before they appear on the site. Any link posted to a third-party internet address does not imply an endorsement of that site or its content by The Grime Scene.
      The Grime Scene forums are for the discussion of the contracting trades and related topics. While the administrators and moderators of The Grime Scene will attempt to keep all off-topic messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of The Grime Scene Room nor the moderators will be held responsible for the content of any message.
      The Grime Scene forums may contain profanity.
      As a condition of buying and selling items listed in any forum of The Grime Scene, Buyer and Seller agree that The Grime Scene is not brokering or otherwise participating in any purchase or sale. The Grime Scene has no knowledge of the terms of sale, the condition of any items offered for sale, the accuracy of any aspect of the sale or the use to which any item shall be put. Buyer assumes all responsibility for proper use of any item so purchased. Buyer acknowledges that improper use of some or all of the items offered for sale on The Grime Scene may cause serious injury or death. Buyer shall seek qualified assistance and instruction in the use of all items purchased.
      Pornography of any type is not allowed.
      The owners, administrators, and moderators of The Grime Scene reserve both the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason, and the right to suspend or delete any user account for any reason we feel is in violation of the TOS, both explicit and implied.
      Membership in The Grime Scene is a privilege, not a right. We reserve the right to deny service to any person at any time without cause.
      [*]INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY It is the policy of The Grime Scene to respond expeditiously to claims of intellectual property infringement. The Grime Scene will promptly process and investigate notices of alleged infringement and will take appropriate actions under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). Should a violation of intellectual property be discovered, the document(s) or messages in such violation will be removed in a timely manner after any and all investigating has been completed to prove the authenticity of such a claim.
      [*]PUBLIC CONTENT ON THE GRIME SCENE Any and all content posted for inclusion in publicly accessible areas of The Grime Scene are the responsibility of the creator. The Grime Scene makes no claims or warranties about such information or its authenticity. Upon posting any content on The Grime Scene, you grant The Grime Scene the non-exclusive right to publish, modify and use such content solely for the purpose of displaying such content.
      [*]LIMITATION OF RE-USE You agree not to reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, resell or exploit for any commercial purposes or noncommercial purposes any portion of the services or content contained within The Grime Scene and its subsidiary sites. In order to use any content, graphical art, photos or files owned by or published by The Grime Scene, direct, written authorization must be obtained from The Grime Scene with no exceptions at any time for any reason.
      [*]LEGAL RESTRICTIONS This agreement shall be constructed and controlled by the laws of the State of Maryland, without regard to its conflict of law provisions. Any dispute arising hereunder will be governed by the laws of the State of Maryland. Each member agrees to personal jurisdiction by tile state and federal courts of the State of Maryland.
      The Grime Scene reserves the right to change, modify or update this TOS agreement at any time without notification. Membership in and the use of resources contained within The Grime Scene constitutes full agreement and acknowledgment of the restrictions, limitations and terms set forth in this agreement.
      [*]Forum Posting Rules The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on The Grime Scene. These rules are in addition to what is listed in our Terms Of Service . Please read through all of these sections before using our site and contact us if you have questions. Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on The Grime Scene. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.
      Advertising on our site is specific to Contractors and to those Manufacturers and Distributors serving our industry. All Manufacturers and Distributors must have a signature, and should not solicit in the main forums. Please use the vendor area. Members who try to sell products and/or services to contracting professionals in the main forum area may have their accounts privileges suspended or revoked.
      No pornographic material or links to pornographic material may be posted on this site.
      Profanity shall be kept to a minimum. Words that appear to be blanked out with stars (*) are not allowed.
      You may only post material and content that you own. Posting copyrighted material, trademarks, and other violations of the DMCA is prohibited. Anyone posting an article must credit the author and provide a link to the original data.
      These rules may be altered at anytime without notice so please check the Announcements often.
Sign in to follow this  
Lakeside

Petriwood or Cedarshield

Recommended Posts

I've been researching Petriwood and/or Cedarshield for a new deck and also to seal some projects that I am making with the old treated material that I took off the deck. The old stuff might be CCA, I'm not sure, so I want to seal it before putting it to use. I'm making benches and tables and things. Has anyone ever used these products? They sound great! If they work, they'd seem be a good investment. Can you help, please?

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was not able to find an MSDS for either of the products which is essential in determining it's suitability and voc compliance where we are.

Second, you will not find any fans here of products containing silicone ingredients due to the problems it can create within the wood and future applications.

I am not contesting the product or its claims at this point because it is too new and has no verifiable field results for applicators like ourselves to offer.

I would like to issue a beware due to the lack of product data sheets or msds which help one to determine the application measures, preparatory information and maintenance procedures necessary when dealing with either of these products...beforehand.

The sites that promote them are full of sales pitches but lack any real life application validations.

At this point, I am very skeptical at best.

Rod!~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. There is another, apparently similar, product called Cretowood. The Creto company has been around for a long time. I couldn't find data sheets, but they say the product is organic and don't recommend any protective gear for application. Can you expand a bit on your concerns about "problems it can create within the wood and future applications." Also, if this stuff starts the petrification process, why doesn't it protect against UV? I've got an inquiry into the company and am waiting for a reply. I'll post what they say.

Also, I see you do cob blasting. Do you travel? Thanks again for your input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks. There is another, apparently similar, product called Cretowood. The Creto company has been around for a long time. I couldn't find data sheets, but they say the product is organic and don't recommend any protective gear for application. Can you expand a bit on your concerns about "problems it can create within the wood and future applications." Also, if this stuff starts the petrification process, why doesn't it protect against UV? I've got an inquiry into the company and am waiting for a reply. I'll post what they say.

Also, I see you do cob blasting. Do you travel? Thanks again for your input.

Silicone as an ingredient in a sealer leaves its constituents behind in the wood and they are colorless. The problem occurs upon reapplication where it actually repels the new product and prevents penetration.

While some may call this effect desirable for repelling water, for those who do not like the product and/or are looking to conduct maintenance, the process becomes more arduous then most know how to contend with or are willing to pay for.

I don't have any comments on its UV protective capabilities as there is no relative information available regarding it other than the claims.

In regard to cob blasting, I noticed you are in Arkansas. This would be an expensive option for you to have us travel that far...your thoughts?

Rod!~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have sold CretoWood in my online store so I am familiar with the type of product you are seeking.

These products contain a silica that cures over time acting as a petrifying agent. Keep in mind that petrifying wood and protecting it from UV rays are two different things.

The two environmental factors that affect wood are UV (sunlight) and moisture. Using a CretoWood type product will help with moisture issues and stabilize the wood. But.. sunlight has to be reflected or absorbed by pigment. That pigment becomes sacrificial. That simply means that for a time the pigment in the product will be taking the hit instead of the wood. Eventually that pigment will give up its life and fade and then disappear. This is when graying starts.

I liked the Cretowood because it penetrated the wood. As long as one doesn't overapply and form a film, this means the top layer of wood acts the same as any other untreated wood. You can wash it and restain it every two years. The advantage of these silica sealers is that the wood is stabilized.

As far as 25 year warranties... don't believe the hype. The surface of wood always has to be maintained regularly to look good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't incorporated cretowood into my regular staining yet - but I have been installing lots of pressure stair treads and floor boards. And where homeowners want to go with a 'Porch & Floor' style paint - I pre-treat the boards with this product. I don't like painting exterior wood decking with paint. But at least I know half the battle of water penetrating the paint film and drenching the wood is now over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the helpful replies! I think I will pass on the Cretowood and just go for a good tinted waterproofer. If I had a zillion dollar deck, though, it sounds like the Cretowood is a good product! Any suggestions on "waterproofers" would be appreciated. The deck gets direct, hot sun. I see some in my log home catalog for $50+ per gallon, but I can get some at Lowe's for $15/gal. I'd like to go with a water based product for easy cleanup...also, my wife is extremely sensitive to chemical smells. Thanks again!!

Rod...yes...Arkansas is a far ride, I know. I guess it was a silly thought. Is there an "associational listing" of cob blasters where I can find one closer to me? Maybe the blasting material manufacturers keep a list? Thanks.

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David,

You can continue your inquiries here and see if anyone spots your post.

Just title it something like Arkansas: cob blasting or the like and a member who is in that area might contact you.

Rod!~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been researching Petriwood and/or Cedarshield for a new deck and also to seal some projects that I am making with the old treated material that I took off the deck. The old stuff might be CCA, I'm not sure, so I want to seal it before putting it to use. I'm making benches and tables and things. Has anyone ever used these products? They sound great! If they work, they'd seem be a good investment. Can you help, please?

David

I believe when one looks into purchasing a product like PETRI-WOOD (THE PRODUCT ABOVE IN QUESTION) for a specific project they should look at all the facts and research on that product and not listen to people who have not researched or used said product as you will find out below. So when looking into new alternative wood products that are not a plain water sealer which needs to be applied every 2 to 3 years, but wood penetrants one should look at the science and the facts. The product in question is petri-wood which in fact is a product when sprayed on only one side penetrates completely through the wood media (heart wood) all the way to the other side. It is currently being used on more than 11 miles of platforms for the Chicago Transit Authority and Ft. Lewis Military Installations cement buildings. Just two of the many projects this product is currently be used on.

It was tested by Iowa St. U & Mississippi St U for the USDA FEDERAL BIO-PREFERRED PROGRAM (which none of the products being compared too above are involved in except PETRI-WOOD) signed by the president and Congress which allows only products that are 100% natural and have been tested and proven as good as if not better than there chemical counterparts. As noted above by another comment that the company does not post there MSDS sheet on there web site is false they in fact do along with a 90 page University study. So in order to make a good buying decision sometimes one must research for themselves. The product in question petri-wood in fact is either being used, brokered or endorsed by the following :

Lee R. Gjovik

University of Minnesota M.S. Degrees, wood science and technology B.S., wood science and technology chairman S-2 Wood Preservation Research Committee President American Wood-Preservers' Association

Member American Wood-Preservers' Association International Union of Forestry Research Organizations Division 5 on Wood Preservation Society of Wood Preservation

Dr. George Jenkins, noted canadian wood scientist U. of New Brunswich Can. qoutes "The science of this invention triggers the early stages of petrification of wood" C. Wayne smith heads up Texas A & M Archaeological Preservation Research Lab. qoutes "it is the SILVER BULLET the industry has been waiting for" scott miller application Engineer for Dow Corning Corp. agrees with Smith. Dr. Robert Adams Baylor U. support the claims as noted in his 1992 publications. The above mentioned product has obviously got its scientific backing and how it works is the product penetration of the hydroxyl group molecular structure where upon entrance it becomes a water scavenger (unlike water based products, this is a solvent 100% all natural) completely eliminating any free or bound water in the wood. The hydrogen tail of the molecule is then collapsed and no further moisture can enter the wood cellular structure, thus leaving the media 100% dimensionally stable, an objective not obtainable with kiln dry methods. "The absence of moisture is the absence of issues" no warping, bending, cupping, splitting, rot or disease. After researching this product i believe you will find no other product on the market including the ones mentioned above that has this many endorsements nor does what this product does. Petri-Wood even puts an additional 25 year warranty when applied to utility poles already in use. Before you use any product you must first research the facts not people who claim to know a product or web site when in fact all this info. is clearly on there site including the MSDS sheet. See for yourself.

Edited by roberta
forgot title

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roberta please fill out your signature line though there is little doubt whom you represent. We are not opposed to intelligent presentation of facts. Through the years many products have been presented to wood professionals that had great science.. on paper. What the scientists and wood preservation experts fail to address is the aesthetics of the wood. The wood can be dimensionally stable 100%.. a fine feature. But homeowners also want their deck to look good.

Please correct me if I am wrong. There is no pigment that is not sacrificial to UV. ie at some point the pigment will be history and the wood will turn gray. Many people can accept that in a fence.. not their deck though. One outstanding question with these types of products has been the ability to apply a pigmented sealer over them. If you have further data and evidence in the form of real world pictures of decks that have been both chemically petrified AND stained consistently with a pigmented product, that would go a long towards convincing wood professionals of the efficacy of the product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I 've researched the product fairly well. It's prefect for the type of projects you describe big and to costly to maintain down the road. All the questions and ideas I had for use could not be answered and there was no data to go by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roberta,

How heavy does the Petriwood need to be applied on the telephone poles? 100sqft/gal? 50 sqft/gal? 25 sqft/gal? Because as I understand from this family of products, enough needs to be applied to completely penetrate to the heart......so 4-5" of penetration would be necessary if coating all sides of the pole. Sigmund Freud would have a field day with that last sentence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey ROBERTA....

No answer? Or do you work for them and is this just more SPAM I need to delete and should I just ban you.....Please respond, fill in your signature and verify who you are.

Sorry all, it's been a bad week. My tolerance for BS is low. :-(

Beth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So now that you guys have all theorized about how good this product is i have been applying this product for the past fourteen years and even though this line of discussion is dated probably id like to add my two cents worth to the topic. Now as you have pointed out with the uv protection that the pigment would tone down over time and make the boards succeptable to damage caused by the uv greying the wood out over time. The appropriate way of application ensures that it penetrates the cellular structure and actually fills the pores of the wood. There is not really a color to it other than a very vague tinge of the cedar oil. and the greying occurs over time not so much from uv damage but dirt and grime being on the surface of the wood. Not from damage being done by the sun. I always recommend to my clients that they take their garage washer and a little deck brightener to the deck annually or offer to include it as an annual maintenance program i suggest to my customers. If your worried about the uv and want to apply a stain over the top of the petriwood you can and i also recommend it as a pretreatment to my clients as once again it has filled the cellular structure. So the wood doesnt swell with the humidity as it cant penetrate it, the warranty protects you from cupping cracking and twisting so when it is applied it makes the wood more solid to put it into laymens terms. My stain jobs last alot longer than if i dont use it and i have had stain projects last upwards of 8 years on vertical surfaces as the boards dont expand and contract, so the coating applied doesnt have the substrate swelling up or squeezing so the coating is not damaged by the substrate it is applied to just the limitations of the stain itself. Also bugs hate this product, I applied it to a clients wicker patio furniture and you should have seen them come running out of it. Also ice doesnt form on it and that is pretty big if you live in south dakota, also that green slime on the north side of the house cannot grow on it. The silicone in the product is actually silane solution which is used to seal concrete on a regular basis and as you know you can stain concrete after the sealant has been applied. So that being said ive been using it about 14 years and it is a wonderful product and recommend it to any and all professional painters, and wood finishing pros out there. As far as the utility poles they are recommended to be treated prior to install by a dip tank process. and the application of the product for us deck guys is to apply the solution until it cannot  be absorbed into the substrate any more usually two coats with a diaphram sprayer or bug sprayer you can use an airless but i suggest a seperate one for the petriwood because when it and water meet it starts to gel up and will harden in the material lines if you clean it out with water fyi. Hope this helps yall and you can add tints to it just has to be a powdered tint. Thats all the info i got for you guys to absorb. I hope it helps and yes it does work like it says I applied it to my fathers decking about 14 years ago no rot replacement of wood or dryrot on any surface to date every year i give it a wash and it still repells the water like it did when i first applied it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cellular structure and pores of the wood are two completely different scales.
Soft woods don't have pores. They consist of elongated fibers. Hard woods do have pores but I doubt these are
the ones you are referring to in your post.
The cells of the wood are closed and cannot be imbued with anything without compromising the integrity of the cell.
Scientifically speaking, everything we do to wood happens at the surface and barely penetrates through to the substrate or
underlying layers. Considering that this product is designed for cedar (according to the website), I don't see much use in
pressure treated lumber which already has the protection installed.
Cedar is best protected from damage by simply sealing the end grain with an appropriate sealer upon installation. Baring that, there is
no practicality for this product to be installed unless it can be done before construction.

Stains last longer on vertical surfaces due to lack of environmental degradation and UV exposure is indirect in most cases where
this longevity is observed.
My question with the claims to increasing/impeding wood dynamic expansion etc is due to the inability to access all sides of the deck
boards/ends etc. Without installing it before the installation, I don't see the claim as reasonably accurate.
Furthermore, using a silicone derivative to seal wood prevents any stain from being able to adhere seeing as they are notorious for
setting up a repellent feature that stains are not manufactured to adhere.
Keeping that in mind, its use on a commercial scale is unsuitable as homeowners are always looking to add their own flair to the deck
in a color scheme(s) that compliments the landscaping and house. Having a bare deck greying from UV degradation and being unable
to apply a stain that will have any reasonable duration becomes a deterrent.
Applying this product before any stain would also Void any manufacturer warranty because it would impeded penetration considering the
bulk of stains produced today are now hybrids and water based to begin with.

Forgive the argument, but when it comes to wood, I am a champion of informing people and not just letting simple claims create a money
waste situation for the customer or the applicator.
In your post, I don't feel you have addressed these concerns properly and according to the website, did not find any evidence of compatibility
with any brand on the market. That in and of itself is a problem because it sets up a liability for the applicator and unreasonable expectations
for the homeowner since there are NO examples or proven trials, no accolades attesting the claims and no photos showing any duration that
can provide any confidence in the products capabilities or applicable uses.

As far as termites on cedar...yes, immature growth is susceptible but if a treatment is required, many stains on the market already incorporate
a preservative. If not, there are alternatives that do not impede the application of a stain or sealer otherwise.
Btw, the video and its presentation are outdated. CCA wood hasn't been produced since the ban went into effect 12/31/2003 most decks are
now comprised of treatments that have little detriment to human exposure.

Again, in the website, there are no photos or testimonials validating the claims.

Rod
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×