Feedback PLZ! Solution needed

[Aqua Pro 22]

I really need some answers..plz indulge me in the set up.....

Ok hear goes, I personally believe that man made global warming is nothing but hype. That being said, it would appear that the state I live in does not share that sentiment and has nonetheless went green to the point where my fav product is no longer available in an oil base. (Nothing sold in my area is oil anymore)

Maybe its taboo to ask for specific brands to be named in your answers but I'M GOING TO ASK ANYWAY! ;-)

Here's the scoop..The vast majority of what I see in my "neck of the woods" are decks that have been previously stained with Linseed oil based stains. A lot of those with products that are a Behr to get off, if you know what I mean.....so Ready Seal is out of the question unless I want to spend half my time sanding to prep.

The product I was using was a topical (film former) linseed oil based stain BUT held up extremely well over a two year period, only cost me $18 a gallon, had many colors to choose from AND stripped like butter with minimal SHydroxide.

I'm now left with all of these "hybrid" stains that act like an oil...or so they say but what I have found in the real world is that A) Their sticky/tacky and a pain to clean up B) Clog up my decker/deckster and C) are a pain in the you know what to strip off.

I know there are a few other choices of product that I could probably order from out of state but as you all know, that presents its own set of problems..Namely inventory issues.

So now for the $1,000,000.00 question.....

Name me a good (or some) "over the counter" stains that I can use this spring that are A) cost effective B) easy to apply and most importantly C) Strip back off come time to redo!!

From what I know (plz correct me if I am wrong) - Latex stains/paints are by far the most problematic when it comes time to strip/reapply. The only time I ever use them is when/if a customer already has a latex deck.

Aren’t acrylics supposed to strip relatively easy? Some of these products are putting either silicone or carnauba wax in them. Stripping them is like pulling teeth from a bull with a pair of tweezers. I need something that will go on easy yet come off the same. I've tried stripping water based semi-trans stains like Cabots with equal frustration. Especially on a cedar deck. There is a fine line between using enough stripper to break down the stain on a molecular level and using so much that it just starts disintegrating the lignin. I really feel like my states "ban" is going to hurt deck restoration in my area. True that I could order say an Armstrong Clark from out of state but I really want to find a local alternative if possible. One major problem I'm going to have is the fact that more and more people are going to be using these hard to strip hybrids...so maybe a good follow up question would be "What is the latest and greatest in stripper technology?"

Short of testing everything on the shelf I am really at a loss of what to do here.

It would appear to me that the technology of strippers has NOT kept up with the chemistry of the stains themselves but maybe something has come along that I am unaware of. I don't want answers that include "I’ve heard this is good" I want answers that include "Dude, I've used this (name here) and it ROCKS!"

I know that I have a personal responsibility to come up with a solution but past experience has taught me that fellow deck restoration companies that frequent this board are truly (no sarcasm here) some of the most informed and knowledgeable pros in the industry.

That's why I am starting my search for an answer here.

I thank you in advance for any and all advice you may have!!!

PS-Tony, I still remember your suggestion about Lowes product but have yet to test it out....

THANKS ALL!!

-Tom

Edited January 5, 2010 by Aqua Pro

[RPetry 564]

Tom,

A true oil based stain, aside from those containing tung oil, should be fairly easy to strip with a sodium hydroxide stripper. Otherwise, there are a few additives that can be used in your mix that can be of help. Do a search on "booster" and "surfactant" here for more info.

Acrylic, and to a lesser extent, latex stains are the absolute most difficult types of stain to strip.

There is no "over the counter" stains that we use or could recommend for most exterior wood jobs. Bite the bullet, and get in touch with a specialty supplier. Armstrong-Clark and Ready Seal stains seem to be the choice of many wood contractors.

[Aqua Pro 22]

That's what I was afraid of. That whole "bite the bullet" thing. hehe

A very prominent, everybody would know his name if I mentioned it deck restoration pro is the one that told me that most acrylics should strip relatively easy. I'm looking for that product!

I'm just hoping someone may have some insight or experience on which ones seem to apply/strip the easist or best. I can say from experience that Behr with silicone is a definite NO-NO for decks. I can't believe they are even allowed to sell that garbage.

Speaking of additives, I have used the 633 additive from ACR in the past with pretty good results but that still doesn't solve my "what to put on" dilemmna

I had one customer last summer with a brand new, once only stained Cedar deck. He used a natural cedar tone semi transparent WATERBORNE stain on it. It was a beautiful stain and showed the grain nicely but NOTHING short of maybe a thick gel strip would budge this stuff. I used Rip-it and F-18 straight on this deck and it just laughed at me. That is NOT the product I want to use as my replacement.

There might be a product out there with an acrylic resin though that one of this forums readers may have used that strips off fairly easy. Again, I can't get any more oil based stains in my area (that I know of anyway) so am HOPING/PRAYING somebody has a suggestion. Anyone else here from a "green state"? What are you using?

I guess one solution would be to just sell everyone on a painted latex deck and then just repaint every year or two but that is nothing short of a cop out and would obviously not best serve my customers.

So far, SW, BMoore and a few other "big dogs" in this area have removed oil stains from the shelves and replaced them with this hybrid goo that will not be going on any of my customers decks/fences.

GRRRR!! I had a great product, but the poly-ticktions messed that up for me

Edited January 5, 2010 by Aqua Pro

[TNRoofCleaner 16]

I would give The Sealer Store a call. They carry numerous brands and they should have one or two to fit your needs.

[anthony szabo 14]

You are putting yourself thru to much pain and to much efforts. Make your decks easy and profitable.

When you come across those Behr and difficult decks sell your customer on the correct way and why the correct way. Then bid according for the job. If they want a cheap job they need to understand the out come will be cheap.

Move onto simple and easy products that give good results and yield less head aches.

There is not room for mistakes on deck jobs! one mistake and a unwanted call back you will loose the profit.

I understand your issue, but either get the right ammount to do a PITA deck, or just don't do it. The cost of your time on a PITA deck you will be able to go out and do two other normal decks with nice profits!!!!!!

Hope I did not dodge your question?

Edited January 6, 2010 by anthony szabo

[acegot 14]

That's what I was afraid of. That whole "bite the bullet" thing. hehe

A very prominent, everybody would know his name if I mentioned it deck restoration pro is the one that told me that most acrylics should strip relatively easy. I'm looking for that product!Quote]

Most acrylic deck sealers/stains will strip fine for recoat w/hd80 or f-18 when applied properly. Its when they are over-applied is when it becomes more of an issue. It is usually ho., some painters, & untrained h-men that way over apply. Omax & CWF UV 5 water-based when not over applied is fine. Those should be available local.

Personally I would go a different direction & use voc compliant oil base like Armstrong, Woodrich/Wood Tux or Defy for a water based non-acrylic.

Edited January 6, 2010 by acegot
error

[Aqua Pro 22]

Omax & CWF UV 5 water-based when not over applied is fine. Those should be available local.

Personally I would go a different direction & use voc compliant oil base like Armstrong, Woodrich/Wood Tux or Defy for a water based non-acrylic.

Never heard of Omax and I think A/Clark would be a very good alternative if there was a local supplier. That is where the "bite the bullet" comes into play. I am really hoping to come up with a solution that will allow me to buy product on an as needed basis from someone local vs having to buy in bulk, wait for orders if I run low or worse yet run out on a job that I bid wrong.

It took me 4ever to finally decide on the last product but once I weeded through all my choices was extremely happy with it...thats no longer an option now as they are only offering hybrid alternatives, hense this thread.

Anyone try out the new line of Thompson's? Their new penetrating oil "formula" brand....if so, how did you like it? Pros, cons?

PS- To the party that called me today, thanks for the landline follow up..ill be talking to you again as spring approaches

PS-PS...T.S shoot me an email @ info@aquaprocs.com with that product you told me about over the summer when/if you get a chance. THANKS!

Edited January 7, 2010 by Aqua Pro

[acegot 14]

Omax is short for Olympic Maximum. The Omax is available in transparent, semi-trans. & solid. The Flood CWF Uv5 & the Omax will be available in Home Depots (Uv5) & Omax (Lowes) & both in local hardware stores & available in paint stores.

[big mike 14]

That is where the "bite the bullet" comes into play. I am really hoping to come up with a solution that will allow me to buy product on an as needed basis from someone local vs having to buy in bulk, wait for orders if I run low or worse yet run out on a job that I bid wrong.

I was going to comment on this yesterday, but I held back to let it play out. I have to ask: why is it a problem ordering from a distributor? I've never had an issue getting stain delivered in a timely manner, and if you consider 5 gallons "bulk" what kind of decks are you staining?

Honestly, your looking at this the wrong way. Simply having the convenience of running to HD to grab some stain won't help you business wise. We sell our customers on a superior product that they can't buy on the shelf at HD. Its what sets you, as a professional, apart from them as a DIYer. I guess if your doing 2-3 decks a year, then yeah buy local. I know that Olympic and CWF were mentioned as well, but you won't be getting much return business if you go that route. We refinish over 100 decks each summer, and most are failed, off the shelf, stains. Do yourself a favor, and "bite the bullet".

Others have mentioned decent stains, and I'll tell you that we use RS almost exclusively. We've built up a very solid return customer base using this product. Simply stated: it works as advertised.

[James 624]

I would use Tommy Water Seal if I bought from a Local store ? Wax on Wax off!

[PressurePros 248]

I would use Tommy Water Seal if I bought from a Local store ? Wax on Wax off!

If the deck beads the product rocks!

[Aqua Pro 22]

I was going to comment on this yesterday, but I held back to let it play out. I have to ask: why is it a problem ordering from a distributor? I've never had an issue getting stain delivered in a timely manner, and if you consider 5 gallons "bulk" what kind of decks are you staining?

Honestly, your looking at this the wrong way. Simply having the convenience of running to HD to grab some stain won't help you business wise. We sell our customers on a superior product that they can't buy on the shelf at HD. Its what sets you, as a professional, apart from them as a DIYer. I guess if your doing 2-3 decks a year, then yeah buy local. I know that Olympic and CWF were mentioned as well, but you won't be getting much return business if you go that route. We refinish over 100 decks each summer, and most are failed, off the shelf, stains. Do yourself a favor, and "bite the bullet".

Others have mentioned decent stains, and I'll tell you that we use RS almost exclusively. We've built up a very solid return customer base using this product. Simply stated: it works as advertised.

I took a beating last year ('09) and got VERY used to running down to the PPG store only when I needed stain. Even though Menards sold its own version of PPG, I used a different version. They were literally 1.5 minutes from my front door and I never had to worry about extra stain sitting in my garage until next needed accept for the half gallon or whatever that was left from said job.

For me, that was a blessing over the alternative option of buying $1,000 of product at a time in various colors and having it sit there hoping someone would pick it.

I'll concede and say for the record that a lot of my objections to buying bulk from a dist. could very well just be misinformed perceptions on my part.

As far as RS, I do use it when I can. I would say the vast majority of my deck customers are those that have already had multiple coats of a film former of some sort previously applied and are not good RS canidates due to the residual products left behind after stripping. I do have my fair share of RS customers though.

I've got an idea on the direction that I will be taking based on the replies in this thread, so for that...I thank all of you for your input and/or calls.

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

Thomas,

Being in IL, you should be able to have AC in either next day or 2nd day from Steve James at The Stain Shop or from Scott Paul at The Pro Sealer Store. I'm in AL and get it 2 days from either. You can order 1gals or 5gals. I strip a lot of multi HO coats of off the shelf stuff down here, mainly SW and Behr. Mostly pt pine.

[anthony szabo 14]

Good post Tom,

The customer market varies from town to town, state to state.

We are so close in distance, and our markets are so different. I like several products for different customers, different woods, different looks, different application issues, different prep work, different deck structure................................and so on.................................every market and decks are different.

My spell check is not working! How did I do?

Tony