Flying J: Bankrupt!

[HotShot 34]

Got a HUGE booklet today from the lawyers of Flying J of their bankruptcy notice. Thank God they didn't owe me any money...

Were any of you guys servicing them?

Things like this are what always stopped me from focusing on chains and a lot of corporate accounts. I always liked the personal relationships with mom and pops.

[Beth n Rod 1,278]

Glad you didn't get burned. Sorry to see the accounts go, I'm sure many folks cleaned them. We don't have them here that I know if. But it is sad to see accounts go away.

Beth

[TNRoofCleaner 16]

They are not gone. Now you can negotiate and get paid faster as under bankruptcy they can no longer accumulate debt but it does not mean they can't spend money. From the looks of the one here though they don't

[Adrian 155]

This happened with a bread store chain I had in ATL. Really sux trying to collect after the fact. Like pulling teeth at the time.

[R. Williamson 14]

I got burned by Denny's years ago when they filed.

[tonyshelton 112]

A few casinos got me pretty bad when I had the dry cleaning business. I just quit doing business with any large casinos and only do the locally owned ones now.

[anthony szabo 14]

Who here is a bankruptcy educated?

It is normal business to build a empire like a casino then file whatever type of bankruptcy? and still operate?

It cleans off all their debt and they restructure in another name. It's just seems not fair to me. But, is that how big big big business really works up to a certain point?

MGM group of what ever holdings they are has done this before in the past and how many times? Come on! its Vegas and its a casino. If they file bankruptcy they need to board up the doors and shut the place down......(peroid)

Does this lay the ground work for a small business to do the same?

Please somebody with educated knowledge of bankruptcy give some thoughts here!

Tony

[Alexy 85]

It is a chapter 11 banruptcy.

A chapter 11 case begins with the filing of a petition with the bankruptcy court serving the area where the debtor has a domicile or residence. A petition may be a voluntary petition, which is filed by the debtor, or it may be an involuntary petition, which is filed by creditors that meet certain requirements, the debtor also must file with the court: (1) schedules of assets and liabilities; (2) a schedule of current income and expenditures; (3) a schedule of executory contracts and unexpired leases; and (4) a statement of financial affairs. If the debtor is an individual (or husband and wife), there are additional document filing requirements. Such debtors must file: a certificate of credit counseling and a copy of any debt repayment plan developed through credit counseling; evidence of payment from employers, if any, received 60 days before filing; a statement of monthly net income and any anticipated increase in income or expenses after filing; and a record of any interest the debtor has in federal or state qualified education or tuition accounts.

They are allowed to operate but can not accumulate more debt under the current buisness. The will reorganize. Write off the old debt ( screwing companies like you and I for pennies on the dollar) and keep on trucking.

They are "too big to fail" ,...ever heard that before? Oh the write off, who pays that? Thats right you and I as tax paying citizens of the United States of America

Edited January 12, 2010 by Alexy

[SprayWave 14]

They file a Chapter 11 or something like that and it gives them the time to get back on their feet.

We were served papers from a lawyer asking us to agree to take 30cents on the dollar for the money that they owed and that would be payed out in three payments that were spread out over the year! The letter said that we had to agree in order for the deal to go through, but we didn't do it. Fortunately for us, they needed us to continue with several lines of their work. I also believe that their is normally a company there to back them up and take over in the event that it does not appear that they are turning around. The big bus manufacturers play this game all the time.

Small businesses can claim bankruptcy and open up under another name as well. A contractor that we had used on our house 3 years ago claimed bankruptcy 3 times and would just start over again. Funny thing is, this time they wouldn't let him, they made him work through his crap and stop being a crook.

I am by no means an expert, and could be wrong on a few things up there..this is how I understood it in that situation.

[SprayWave 14]

What Alexy said, he must have posted as I was typing. :)

[tonyshelton 112]

Here's what happened here.

Casino named "A" files bankruptcy with an AP to us of $14k (60 days late) They always paid before. That is why 60 days didn't bother me. (Lets say it's January and February billing)

All the sudden I get a letter in the mail March 1 stating that "A" is in bankruptcy and other legal mumbo jumbo.

I call them and am informed that the bankruptcy won't affect our relationship and things remain as usual. I was told the bk only affected long term debts and not ongoing operational costs.

I continue to do work for them in March I get a payment for March's work. I called about Jan and Feb and here's what I'm told:

"That was an entirely different company. "A" was bought out by another corporation and any and all debts of the previous corporation are included in the bankruptcy and the new company is only responsible for debts incurred after March 1."

That is a brief synopsis of what happened. Actually it is a little more complicated than that and I never got a single dime.

I cut off their service immediately and spread the word to other dry cleaners. I found that this is standard operating proceedure for casinos.

I also got hit with an airline that went bankrupt and left me with thousands in uniform cleaning debt. They went bankrupt over 6 years ago and I still TO THIS DAY get updates on the case in the mail, but have not received one dime.

America as a whole is just about to do the exact same thing.

[HotShot 34]

I know I'm a little naive, but it just makes me appreciate people like Dave Ramsey more and more. Why can't a company run their company on the kinds of principles that Dave Ramsey teaches? I know they can, because the company I use to work for before being self employed DID IT!

They had $390 million in the bank with $0 debt. Paid cash for everything. It was an awesome company. Then the owner died and morons took over and they are turning the company upside down. Sucks.

What gripes me is these same people will be able to continue after screwing over people and nothing will happen to them. Whatever happen to consequences for your actions?

[tonyshelton 112]

And the worst thing is they badmouth us when we refuse to service the accounts anymore!

That casino was begging us to keep the account but when we left the new Dry cleaner called and told me they were badmouthing us and saying we left them holding the bag!

Good Grief!

[squirtgun 122]

And the worst thing is they badmouth us when we refuse to service the accounts anymore!

That casino was begging us to keep the account but when we left the new Dry cleaner called and told me they were badmouthing us and saying we left them holding the bag!

Good Grief!

You did.....

THE LAUNDRY BAG

[tonyshelton 112]

You did.....

THE LAUNDRY BAG

Thanks man. I knew you could make me laugh about it.:D

[John T 744]

Somewhere sometime we all get screwed. I got screwed around 3 years ago with a company that owed me $5000. They went bankrupt and one or two of the people involved are going to do some jail time. I lost $5000 on some Powerwashing money owed. So I lost on that one.

Last year I did some work for this guy to clean his sports complex. We did it and got paid immediately. As the year goes on it turn out this guy is the ring leader of one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in NY after Berny Madoff. On this one I got paid cash. Thank God for that but many people got ripped off and I got paid. Got lucky on that.

Right now I am owed $40,000 with one company owing me $28,000 and there over 60 days late. This has me big time concerned but I feel confident that I will one way or another get this guy to pay up. Will see.

Even though Clean County Powerwashing had a decent year I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't the biggest year I also got ripped off.

I believe my Company will do even better this year but as for the economy I feel its going to be another down year and there will be more rip offs. I just heard on the business channel today that people who generally got estimates from around 2 contractors on average to do a specific job, they will now go to around 9 contractors to pick one for the best price.

SO with stories like that I am bracing for another down year with the economy and I am hoping thru my networking and sites like TGS I stay ahead of the curve on whats going on in the real world.

Good luck to all.

[AllAmerican 14]

I'm gettin screwed now. I have a property management company that ordered service on 5 apartment complexes. They owe me approximately $15,000.

$11,000 is going over 90 days and the other $4,000 is over 30 days. They always paid good in the past. Now I can't make my mortgage or pay my bills cuz these idiots ordered the work but aren't paying.

So not only does it look like I'm out the $15,000, but also the $8,000 it took in labor, chemicals, equipment, fuel, etc. to get the jobs done.

"Oh ****s" are never good. This is an "oh ****" if I've ever seen one. I don't know what I'm going to do if they don't pay. Probably have to shut my doors and move on to something else.....

[tonyshelton 112]

I'm gettin screwed now. I have a property management company that ordered service on 5 apartment complexes. They owe me approximately $15,000.

$11,000 is going over 90 days and the other $4,000 is over 30 days. They always paid good in the past. Now I can't make my mortgage or pay my bills cuz these idiots ordered the work but aren't paying.

So not only does it look like I'm out the $15,000, but also the $8,000 it took in labor, chemicals, equipment, fuel, etc. to get the jobs done.

"Oh ****s" are never good. This is an "oh ****" if I've ever seen one. I don't know what I'm going to do if they don't pay. Probably have to shut my doors and move on to something else.....

Call Ron. I think there are laws that work in our favor in the case of property managers. (The only exception would be out and out fraud or theft, I think)

[HotShot 34]

Sue them!!!

[Alexy 85]

Ant is right if they are going under and you have allready began collections against them you will be the first to get paid when they carve up the carcass of the buisness at bankruptcy proceedings

[AllAmerican 14]

Thanks guys for the info, but all states are different. The rule in Georgia is 60 days to put a lien on the property. So that's pretty much shot out. Plus I contacted 2 of the properties and they said, and I quote, "Some of the properties are financially challenged, but this one is not." made me feel a little better that I might see at least some of the money (1/4 of it).

I don't want to start action on the money owed over 90 days just so I don't screw what I may possibly get with the invoices that are over 30 days from the properties that can pay.

The kicker is......my folks got old (in their mid 80's), my father-in-law got leukemia (currently in remission) so we had to move back to Siberia (Youngstown, Ohio or as I refer to it "Upper F**ckin Siberia") to help out the parents on both sides. So now I drive 12 hours one way to Atlanta and have to stay with and old friend/neighbor to work. I have 2 employees that work with me when I'm there (and on smaller jobs when I'm not), but now I can't even go to the courthouse to place a lien cuz there's a chance I won't have the finances to get back there.

The moral of the story there......Just when you think your life truly sucks, mine is probably worse.....

[AllAmerican 14]

BTW...Know any good collection agencies (or lawyers located in Georgia)?

[Scott Stone 604]

I had have had to write off a total of about $8000 since I have been in business. It really hurts when you put your time and effort into the job, and then have to lose the money.

I had a company that I share a yard with. They own the yard. About 8 years ago, I did a bunch of work for them, totalling about $6000. My biggest ever default. So, I stopped paying them rent, to make up the deficit. 8 years later, I am still not paying rent. Meanwhile, I have a couple of dumpsters, 5 trailers, and 3 trucks parked in my corner of the yard. There is also some miscellaneous debris that is in the yard, as well. All in all, I think I came out well on this one. They are happy, because my guys provide a little security to the yard, since they are in and out all night long. It is a corner that would not be used, anyway. And, Ilet them borrow one of my open trailers when they need it.

[AllAmerican 14]

Hey Scott, that sounds like you fell into a pile of crap and came out smelling like a rose.

It's not $8,000 you lost because they didn't pay. It's more like $12,000 because you probably had about $4,000 - $5,000 in expenses to complete service.

So you not only lost what they owed, but you also lost your expenses.

It just sucks all the way around......

[Adrian 155]

All American..... Please go to your "My Controls" and complete your signature line. House rules.

Welcome to TGS.

[Alexy 85]

Adrian,

do you ever actually post or just remind people to fix thier signatures all the time?