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      The Grime Scene Terms Of Service and Forum Rules   08/23/2007

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Beth n Rod

Avoid mixing these together!

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36 members have voted

  1. 1. Was this information helpful to you?

    • Extremely helpful! I don't want to mix the wrong things together.
      22
    • Somewhat helpful. I knew some but not all of it.
      12
    • Not helpful, I don't really think about it when working.
      2


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The following outlines common cleaning agents, their hazards, and safety precautions:

CLEANING AGENT POSSIBLE HAZARDS SAFETY MEASURES

Ammonia

- can cause severe eye and lung irritation.

- if mixed with bleach, can form poisonous chlorine gas.

- use in a well ventilated area.

- do not mix with bleach.

- wear eye protection.

Bleach

- can produce a poisonous gas if mixed with other cleaners

- never mix with toilet cleaners or ammonia

- wear gloves & eye protection.

Toilet/Drain Cleaners & Lye (Lye: also known as Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide)

- can cause serious burns.

- wear gloves and avoid skin contact.

- never mix with bleach.

- protect eyes from possible splashes.

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Looking at the MSDS for Ultra Clorox, it lists Sodium Hydroxide as an ingredient. Where did this info come from, I would like a confirmation.

Toilet/Drain Cleaners & Lye (Lye: also known as Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide)

- can cause serious burns.

- wear gloves and avoid skin contact.

- never mix with bleach.

- protect eyes from possible splashes.

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Never let brake fluid and chlorine mix. Not that you would normally mix the two, but it is possible that both could be stored on then same shelf. If the two mix, a fire will start.

Naturally I had to see if that was true, so as a test, I poured some of each into a styrofoam coffee cup, and it went up in a blaze in about 2 minutes.

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I assume you mean granulated pool chlorine? Liquid Cl in just about any concentration should provide enough cooling/buffering to prevent flames. Anyway, I used to do this as a kid for kicks. Put some pool shock in a tin can and add a spoonful of brakefluid. Set it somewhere in the yard at a safe distance, but in plain view of some unsuspecting victim. A few minutes later, dad (quietly mowing the lawn) nearly falls off the lawnmower when he sees a 3ft flame erupting from the bird bath.

Anyway, pre-teen pranks aside. It's extremely combustible, auto igniting, and will become explosive if contained. The time to erupt varies wildly with temperature and in the presence of contaminants. For that matter, compounds of oxidizers (like hypochlorite compounds) and any type of fuel (oil, brake fluid, etc) make a hazardous enerjetic mixture. Most solid rocket fuels are nothing more than an oxidizer suspended in a rubber fuel.

Brake fluid is particularly nasty because it contains sulfur compounds which destabilize the mixture and allow decomposition to begin. This decomposition liberates heat, which causes further decomposition. The ends result is a big hot fire that errupts with no warning.

The moral: Be very aware of oxidizers and their proximity to any type of fuel.

Very partial list

--------------------------

Oxidizers:

sodium/calcium hypochlorite

Acids - oxalic, hydrochloric, HF.

Some ammonia compounds

Almost all nitrate compounds.

Fuels:

Wood, paper, oil, plastic, rags, etc.

i.e. Just about anything. In the presence of a strong oxidizer, even metal will burn as readily as gasoline...

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Being a 10 year old in a 22 year old's body, I tried putting some granulated pool chlorine with some dot 3 brake fluid. Nothing... I tried some 6 percent bleach and got some wicked bubbling and some heat. Maybe I need to get some better chlorine or something. What's the recipe doolittle?

Nick

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Too much brake fluid is a bad thing. Try 2tbsp chlorine & 1/2 tsp brake fluid. Stay clear, it burns like a road flare and puts off toxic fumes.

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Never let brake fluid and chlorine mix. Not that you would normally mix the two, but it is possible that both could be stored on then same shelf. If the two mix, a fire will start.

Naturally I had to see if that was true, so as a test, I poured some of each into a styrofoam coffee cup, and it went up in a blaze in about 2 minutes.

Very helpful! Don't want to mix the wrong chemicles...Thanks Aplus:winkanim:

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Early one morning I was pumping shc into empty(so i thought) 5gal buckets. About 3 seconds into the second bucket I heard air being forced from the top of the bucket followed by a stream of foam spuing everywhere, ceiling, my arms and face.

This was cause by dried oxilic in the bottom of the bucket being rehydrated with shc, not a good combo.

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Looking at the MSDS for Ultra Clorox, it lists Sodium Hydroxide as an ingredient. Where did this info come from, I would like a confirmation.

Toilet/Drain Cleaners & Lye (Lye: also known as Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide)

- can cause serious burns.

- wear gloves and avoid skin contact.

- never mix with bleach.

- protect eyes from possible splashes.

ALL sodium hypochlorite contains hydroxide

It is a byproduct of the manufacturing process.

BUT, in the case of Clorox outdoors, MORE of it is added for improved cleaning, and storage stability.

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Early one morning I was pumping shc into empty(so i thought) 5gal buckets. About 3 seconds into the second bucket I heard air being forced from the top of the bucket followed by a stream of foam spuing everywhere, ceiling, my arms and face.

This was cause by dried oxilic in the bottom of the bucket being rehydrated with shc, not a good combo.

Thats bad news there.... it creates chlorine gas which when mixed with H20 creates muriatic acid. This stuff can kill ya dead if you inhale too much so be carefull out there. The chlorine gas when inhaled mixes with H20 in your body. One of my guys did that same thing in our shop and just a few minutes we had to evacuate the shop for about 45 minutes. You couldn't stand to even walk in there!

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I think the confusion here was assuming that the toilet and drain cleaners were containing lye, most actually are acids which when mixed with either bleach or ammonia products will produce a harmful gas. (see msds links below)

Bleach and sodium hydroxide mixtures are not a problem. I don't necessarily agree with chris's post about sodium hydroxide being a by-product of the manufacturing process but it is used to stabilize the pH of the bleach.

In the outdoor formula, there is no more Sodium hydroxide than the regular bleach but there are other surfactants added to enable the sodium hydroxide it does contain to be active otherwise it is classified as an 'inert ingredient'.

http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/bleach/cloroxregularbleach0505_.pdf

http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/bleach/cloroxoutdoorbleachcleaner6-07.pdf

Compare for yourselves.

http://www.hescoinc.com/Msds/ly74278.pdf

http://www.hescoinc.com/Msds/ly94201.pdf

Mixing bleach and sodium hydroxide together is a powerful oxidizing agent not to mention corrosive as well. The following link is for pdf based msds on drain cleaners for example.

http://www.scjohnson.com/msds_us_ca/drano.asp

Hope this helps to answer some questions.

Rod!~

Edited by Beth n Rod

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