Removing Sikkens DEK

[Celeste 341]

We bid a deck today to remove Sikkens DEK.....this stuff was on for 5 years and was applied by the homeowner. It began to peel on one of the benches so they started sanding it off. Here's the kicker.....the spindles still look GREAT which to me means that it's going to be a really big PAIN to get off. We plan to use HD-80 to remove - those of you with HD-80 experience, should we go with the Boost additive or just be patient with the dwell time? This one's gonna end up with Wood Tux Wet :)

Here's a few pics of the before:

[Aplus 525]

I know you're going to end up with more than one opinion here. My experience with straight HD-80 is that it will not completely remove Sikkens from the vertical surfaces. I've had discussions with Beth about this, and she indicated that Rod has had better results with Sikkens removal. Maybe it could be a regional thing, or water hardness thing, or something else I don't know.

If you have trouble with the straight HD-80, then possibly the Booster, and maybe even some Hang Time additive would make a great improvement, as would much longer dwell times, and perhaps even covering the area with plastic during dwell times.

I would suggest doing your own testing on this deck to determine if the results are satisfactory for you and your customer.

If so, be very careful about how you price, because your time and costs are going to go up, and don't forget to plan on a lot of furring to deal with.

There are some conditions I don't even bother with anymore, and Sikkens removal is one of them. I don't get personal satisfaction from whipping up on tough to remove stains. Most customers don't want to pay what I want to charge for that kind of work, so I don't bother anymore. If there wasn't enough work, that would be one thing, but as it is, there is plenty of 'good' work for me, and I leave that stuff for some other poor shmuck.

Please remember I'm telling you this from what I have personally experienced over the past ten years.....not what someone else says, or what a vendor says, but what my experiences have been. Others may vary.

OK....I'm prepared for the heat that is bound to follow.......:)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We have gone through 7 layers of DEK. We demoed going through 5 in public, when we were vendors. HD-80 will do it, but you will need to be:

1. full strength

2. allow LONG dwell time and keep wet with more product. Don't let it dry.

3. be prepared for some sanding.

Boost might help here and hang time may as well. HD-80 melts a polymer resin (such as DEK), rather than breaking it as a film and lifting it in chunks if you know what I mean. Call Rod for more details. He's stripped many a DEK deck. We see it frequently here, in fact we just got another DEK strip job yesterday....

Beth

p.s. Tony, I think climate has alot to do with it. We're a little warmer here, and our winters are not as much fun as yours - snow wise. We just had a customer move here from CT, and he swears he had never had mildew grow up there at all. Down here it is prolific. Go figure...

[James 624]

We have bad dew in CT- I too have had frouble with sikkO's removal.

[JFife 14]

Removall310 by Biowash, no harsh chems, no sanding, absolutely will work, no guessing,

[Celeste 341]

Jon,

Where are you getting the BioWash products now? I think SunBrite is discontinuiing it in their store. We have looked hard at that before for a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE painted with we never found out what deck. I like that their products are so enviromentally friendly.

Celeste

[PressurePros 248]

A local company, ETS, carries Biowash. I used it once. Was very expensive and maybe it was my technique (I forgot to hug a tree and smell a flower before I applied it) but it was lousy compared to NaOH

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jon,

What's in the 310 that will allow it to remove something like DEK and not be a harsh chem? We're talking about a polymer resin here. Very tough film. Anything that is gonna eat thru is will be pretty caustic I would think.

Beth

[JFife 14]

Celeste,

go to their site, call and find a local distributor. Most likely will have to order.

Ken,

Which product was it?? They have about 15 different strippers. The 310 I use is only for removing a film or coating, and won't remove penetrated stain. It would have no noticable effect on, say, Readyseal. Obviously, anything penetrating can easily be removed w/ naoh, but the coatings are what is tough.

Beth,

What's in it?? No clue. Tried to figure it out with no luck. It is comparable to the likes of Back To Nature, Peel Away (i think) and a few other coating removers. Remember, it is only for taking off a coating. It'll go through about 10-15 coats of paint. YOu apply with airless, let sit, and the coating starts wrinkling like an old man's skin. Before long, it literally starts falling off the wall. Then you hit with light pressure, and the coating comes off with no ill effects to the substrate. Now, if the paint or DEK or Cetol or whatever was applied over dirty wood, you'll still have to refinish the wood. Often paint may be applied to a deck that they were unhappy with the stain color, and if you stripped off the paint, you'd be left with this stained deck. So if you bid a job to use something like this, note that restoring the wood may be necessary, and will cost additional.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

YOu apply with airless, let sit, and the coating starts wrinkling like an old man's skin.

Eeewwwww! That was a heck of a visual... We'll have to try the 310...

Beth

[CCHSNC 14]

Just save the trouble and use F-18 @ 14 oz per gallon. Dwell for 15 min +/- keeping wet and spray it off with 500-1000 psi, brighten, detail stain, Check please. :)

[Aplus 525]

I've got F-18 on the way, and I'm excited to give it a try. I'd be happy as heck if it works that well Rob.

[Henry B. 4]

There are some conditions I don't even bother with anymore, and Sikkens removal is one of them. I don't get personal satisfaction from whipping up on tough to remove stains. Most customers don't want to pay what I want to charge for that kind of work, so I don't bother anymore. If there wasn't enough work, that would be one thing, but as it is, there is plenty of 'good' work for me, and I leave that stuff for some other poor shmuck.

Please remember I'm telling you this from what I have personally experienced over the past ten years.....not what someone else says, or what a vendor says, but what my experiences have been. Others may vary.

OK....I'm prepared for the heat that is bound to follow.......:)

You said it Tony,,,, I also feel the same way, I hate stripping decks. If it's almost worn itself off I might deal with it but that's no guarrantee. There are too many things in this area to wash to deal with breathing fumes and fighting a PITA stain. If there's anyone around here that want's these jobs let me know. I just got a call from a client with Valspar on his deck and I just don't feel like taking the time to mess with it.

[Aplus 525]

When I first started out, for about the first 3-4 years, I took on every job that came my way.

Mistakes were made, and lessons were learned. Now I realize my time is best spent focusing on signing good jobs that pay fair rates, and not worry about the rest. Some may provide upsell opportunities, while others are best left to just say "no thanks", or bid it sky high.

I know Henry understands what I'm saying.

[Celeste 341]

Tony,

Do you think that those first 3-4 years of doing everything, learning from your mistakes, etc... is what has enabled you to be able to provide the good advice that we read from you and allowed you to be selective in your work because of the quality?

Celeste

[Aplus 525]

Celeste,

The first six years I did this gig, I was part time. The money I made was for extras, and for building the business.

The last 4 years have been full time. The truth is I don't have time to spend inordinate amounts of effort on jobs that may not pay as well, or yield less than satisfactory results. I need to focus on making a living now instead.

At first I thought I could tackle anything, and some times I succeeded, and other times, well........

There were no boards like this, and no information available on the internet. Local vendors were the main source of support, and as it turns out, they can be very biased when recommending products. I am extremely wary when new products come out that are promoted as the best new thing, etc, etc. Ten years ago CWF was heavily promoted as being so great, and I thought it was until I discovered 1-2 seasons later, that I couldn't remove the old stuff. There was nothing strong enough, no HD-80, no F-18, no TimberStrip. So please forgive me if I don't sound excited when I hear about various stains that are new, with no long term experiences with them.

I think like any other trade, learning takes time and practice. These boards are great, and give a great insight as to what it may take to do a job, but nothing beats on the job experience.

There never seems to be a shortage of new things to learn. For example, I never realized just how much difference geographical location can effect the results or performance of various products. Something may work well for me, but not for you.

Did I answer your question?

[CLASSICPW 14]

Is their house wood? I won't touch a strip job if the house is wood or oxidized aluminum.

[Celeste 341]

Well, here are the results - stripped with HD-80 w/ Hang Time, brightened with Citralic. Somebody forgot to take a pic of the sample board that was stained with the Wood Tux so guess everyone will just have to wait until the deck is sealed for more pics. HD-80 took care of this DEK with noooo problem - patience (and more patience) resulted in very few fuzzies :)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Excellent job!

Patience is a virtue!

Beth :dancing: