Price

[Russell Cissell 65]

After talking with another contractor today I became very curious about pricing. I've been specializing in wood restoration for over a decade. The price varies by region of the country and also from company to company within each market.

I am very interested to see how the prices here in the St. Louis market stack up with those nationwide.

[James 624]

Hey Nick what type of hats do your guys wear?

Dunse caps !!! LOL LOL LOL

[AAPaint 14]

I'm very interested in this thread, and I'm totally against what 90% of the posters are doing. I agree with Nick. You should know your costs and charge accordingly. If you're not closing jobs based on price, there is something wrong in the business model. I'm not talk trash as a newbie on this forum (see my other post) I used to gross $20K/mo with my last business, and I have NEVER bid a job on some arbitrary sq. ft. numbers.

The software I use for estimating allows me to input my real world production rates for everything we do, and then output a figure based on those. It is $X.XX per sq ft. but it's based on production figures, company overhead, materials, and profit. Not some arbitrary price per square foot.

For instance. You charge $1 per sq. ft. Is that for everything? Doesn't it take longer to strip or stain handrails? Of course it does. What if the work is off the ground and requires climbing a ladder to do a lot of it? Is $1 per sq. ft. going to cover all of that ladder work too?

I don't know why, but it seems contractors are the only business people I've ever met who try to mold themselves to some arbitrary figure. No other business on earth does this. If it costs them more to produce a product, you're going to pay for it when you purchase it.

You should know exactly what to charge per man, per hour in the field, and to top it off, if you want to be successful, you should know exactly how many hours you need to sell at that rate per year, to make exactly the income you want to make. I'm flat broke going back into business, but I'll be damned if I'm charging some arbitrary figure for nothing. I know exactly what my costs are, exactly what I want to make, and exactly how much I have to sell to make it. I know exactly what my production rates are. I know exactly what my overhead is, and I know exactly how much profit I want per job. These are what determines my price. Nothing else.

Learning this valuable lesson from other contractors with my last business is how we became successful.....it was absolutely VITAL to how we operated, and always will be.

[Sud n Clean 14]

Adam, you said, "The software I use for estimating allows me to input my real world production rates for everything we do, and then output a figure based on those."

What's the software you use, if you don't mind.

[thinkpaint1 14]

I just saw that post nah we don't wear Dunce caps actually my name is pronounced Dunz but its alright made me one tough SOB growing up with it.

[AAPaint 14]

The software I use is DevWave's Paint Estimator Pro. I have used it for years to estimate everything from concrete acid staining, to painting, staining decks and fences, etc. I actually beta tested numerous builds of this software, and if you're doing any kind of work similar to what is mentioned, and YOU ACTUALLY KNOW YOUR PRODUCTION RATES AND COSTS, this software makes it a BREEZE to put together very professional looking estimates. You can check them out at Devwave dot com and tell them Adam Austin from AA Quality Painting sent you.

[Sud n Clean 14]

Hey, I'm for whatever I can do to help my business and my customers. Thanks

[AAPaint 14]

Try it out, you might like it. I know I do. It's what I use to estimate everything. It's built mostly for painters, but works to estimate any surface coatings if you know your production rates and costs well enough.

[RPetry 564]

Wow. Guess I'm old school.

With wood, there are too many variables to plug into a spreadsheet/program to really make sense. I use to program databases in a former occupation, it just does not correspond to hands on, real world variables.

Accurate estimating only comes from experience, and a sharp eye.

[AAPaint 14]

It works, you just have to know where you stand on everything. It actually helps me be more accurate than I can just guessing at things. This program lets me have different variables for almost anything, and to even adjust the entire bid by a percentage on the fly.

It's far more advanced than just a spread sheet, and I know many people in the coatings industry using it. Wood has variables, but painting has thousands of variables as well. Everything from clapboard siding to stucco, dryvit, hardy board, lap siding, t-111 panels, you name it. Then you have things like concrete which can be stained, painted, acid stained, color toned, textured, non-textured etc. Heck, crown molding and baseboards come in dozens of different configurations, but once I've nailed down our cost on one type, I'm done, and don't have to think about it anymore. It takes maybe three clicks to estimate the whole thing.

You get out of it what you put into it. The beauty is, once you've set up a rate for one known variable, you never have to touch it again unless you simply want to tweak it for inflation/rising costs. Even things like railings, balusters, etc. once you have a cost, then it's a couple clicks for the whole thing.

On the other side of the fence, I know many guys who won't use anything but a piece of paper to estimate by, and don't even measure what they're doing. Then I know some with arbitrary figures per sq. ft. that correlate with absolutely nothing in the real world.

In the end, it's personal preference. This software allows me to make very neat, professional proposals in just minutes, and I simply couldn't live without it. Many old timers might not like it, but after 13 years in the coatings industry, whether it's painting houses or staining wood, I love it.

[Tonyg 14]

In larger construction estimating knowing cost is essential. Once direct costs of any individual process is determined then that is used for the estimating. The software, spreadsheet, database, etc. can give a base rate and then its the experience that adjusts the rates to real world variables. I agree with Adam in that a system can be used to bring a more accurate base rate. But, it's the experience that will bring success and profit.

[AAPaint 14]

You nailed it Tonyg. I use the software to put me in the ballpark, and experience to tell me when it's not where it needs to be. Like I said, I can adjust it on the fly with a couple of clicks.

It also does more for me than help with my pricing. It prints my proposals in a very neat, professional manner that would take an hour if typed out by hand. With this program, I input their info, put in my measurements, hit print, and wham, I have an awesome looking proposal.

Then I have another form I keep my terms on, I pick which ones fit the current job, cut and paste them to the end, and within minutes I have an extremely detailed contract that looks clean, and professional, and is extremely detailed.

I've tried, and there is simply no way I can come close to producing proposals and contracts like I do with this software manually. I type about 80wpm and I still would take forever to format and compile everything like it does for me with a few clicks.

If anyone wants to see a sample of my proposals, shoot me your email and I'll show you what's possible. I'm not advocating anyone changing what works for them, I'm just saying there are more than one way to skin a cat!

[jnoden 15]

This thread is a little confusing. As mentioned you cant just say so much per sq ft because there are too many variables. Does it need stripped, what kind of wood, how much railing, is it 2nd story, are there steps. We use a formula that takes each of these in to account so that everyone receives the same fair pricing and we do not lose money or charge too much.