Don M. 14 Report post Posted February 23, 2007 With the recent attacks in Iraq, you think the govt will start getting involved with who gets chlorine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 squirtgun 122 Report post Posted February 23, 2007 The attacks involved chlorine gas not shc.I don't see them making strong regs on it since those attacks didn't happen on US soil. Think of the chems we buy regularly that you can make a bomb with that aren't regulated.There are a handful under every kitchen sink in America that will make a bomb strong enough to kill or mame anyone in a 10ft radius. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PLD 14 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Yes, and at the same time the idiots treat only moderately dangerous components like they were C4. I can buy 50# of FFFF black powder w/o any permits, checks, etc and then make a pickup load of pipe bombs. But try and buy 64gms of solid fuel for a model rocket (not explosive) and you need a Low Explosives Users Permit (LEUP). Think that kind of warm fuzzy security crap actually protects us? Think again. Next time your terrorist buddy needs good cover for buying REAL low explosives for a bomb have him go apply for a LEUP and explain that he flies model rockets for a hobby. He'll blend right in with the THOUSANDS of us who were forced to get permits. And Washington knows it's a problem, but they wont tell you about it. And how does washington propose to close this loophole? Outlaw rocketry/propellant all together. Yep. Let's not do the obvious and take APCP (rocket fuel) off the federal explosives register. (remember, it is NOT explosive). Instead, Let's squelch yet another freedom in the name of protecting the fatherland (opps, I meant "homeland security")... Oh, and did I mention that the BATFE has been spending millions of $$$ of your money defending itself against a lawsuit over this very issue for the past 6 years? I don't know exaclty how much of your money they have spent to date, but we are ona pretty tight budget (with lots of volunteer/pro bono work) and we are fast approaching $500,000 on our side. And when we win AGAIN this summer, they will once again try to twist the judges ruling and begin illegal enforcement. Which will land them in court YET AGAIN facing an injunction. And they will spend even more of your money trying to do what SEVERAL judges have ruled is not legal... Anyone who believes that government is inherently good and works in the interest of the people is either woefully ignorant, or just plain stupid.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PLD 14 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 The attacks involved chlorine gas not shc.I don't see them making strong regs on it since those attacks didn't happen on US soil.Think of the chems we buy regularly that you can make a bomb with that aren't regulated.There are a handful under every kitchen sink in America that will make a bomb strong enough to kill or mame anyone in a 10ft radius. It would not surprise me at all. If they can tie "chlorine" and "poison gas" in the minds of the American people and create yet another excuse to intrude on your liberties, they will. Follow the money. Billions are being spent on homeland security and people are getting RICH from govt contracts. Anything that threatens that money stream is a problem, and anything that solidfies it is justified. If someone finds a way to make millions of the fear of "chlorine", it will be followed by a panel, an expert report, and then proposed legislation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 racechaser 64 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Oh, and did I mention that the BATFE has been spending millions of $$$ of your money defending itself against a lawsuit over this very issue for the past 6 years? What is the BATFE??? Scott Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RyanH 14 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 sodium hypochlorite + ammonia. There, now I've contributed to the delinquincy of America. Not exactly chlorine gas, but poison enough. Quick, somebody stop this exchange of information. Before you know it enough things will be regulated that we will forget how to make concrete. Again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Deck Guy 14 Report post Posted February 27, 2007 What is the BATFE???Scott Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco, and Firearms? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 TNT Pressure Washing 14 Report post Posted February 27, 2007 Hey Philip...how do you really feel? :D jking. It was good to hear from you and I hope all is going well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 racechaser 64 Report post Posted February 27, 2007 Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco, and Firearms? Thanks. that makes sense. Scott Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PLD 14 Report post Posted March 1, 2007 What is the BATFE???Scott Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms, and Explosives. before 09/11 they were just the ATF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PLD 14 Report post Posted March 1, 2007 Hey Philip...how do you really feel? :D jking. It was good to hear from you and I hope all is going well. Things are really great. As for the rant; If you spend any amount of time dealing with the government you will find that their quest for power is unending. Generally speaking, they will spare no freedom or property if taking it will justify a departmental budget. For example: 9v rocket ignitors can be sold at walmart. 3 volt rocket ignitors must be sold by a licensed explosives dealer. Both can be made at home legally and w/o any permits. But, if you are caught buying/sellling 3volt ignitors, you are jeprodizing "fatherland security" and face serious jail time. What's the difference and why does it matter? 3v ignitors can be lit off one 9v battery and come with 12" wires. 9v ignitors come with 2" wires and take two 9v batteries. The extra battery and wire is no big deal to someone building a bomb. But to a model rocketeer where space/weight/balance is a premium, the extra features of the LV ignitors are very nice. Is not having LV ignitors a show-stopper? No, it is just a bigger pain. Does regulating them stop bomb making? No, most suicide bombers can come up with the extra $1.79 for the required parts. So why would any reasonable person require a permit for low voltage ignitors? Reasonable is key. A reasonable person wouldn't. But low voltage ignitors are the standard for commercial blasting and guess where you usually find them? Yep, explosives supply stores. And since explosives stores sell them, they must be very dangerous and we had better regulate them... Let's all hope they don't figure out my supplier also sells wire and orange/yellow caution tape.... Anyway, my point is this. Do not ever look at something innocuous like SH and assume it is to common and obvious to get caught up in "fatherland security". I deal with these jerko**s regularly. If they sense they can get the media started and people scared, they believe can get a budget increase for the people & equipment required to monitor it. And they start circling like vultures... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PLD 14 Report post Posted March 1, 2007 sodium hypochlorite + ammonia. There, now I've contributed to the delinquincy of America. Not exactly chlorine gas, but poison enough. Quick, somebody stop this exchange of information. Before you know it enough things will be regulated that we will forget how to make concrete. Again. Yep. The regs are ridiculous. Powdered aluminum is regulated. Over 1lb/year requires a explosives manufacture permit. But, you can buy all of those silver radiator "stops leaks" things (powdered aluminum) that you want. High grade ammonium nitrate is regulated. But, you can order all of those "instant freeze" packs (100% pure ammonium nitrate) you like. Or just buy fertilizer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 plainpainter 217 Report post Posted March 1, 2007 The price for freedom is sometimes great - stupid goverment just takes the most simplistic and moronic steps to try and solve problems - government in the end can never really truly protect us - even though they try to sell fear and protection. Funny how I am a liberal democrat who has the exact same views as Philip Doolittle on issues such as this. I believe republicans are for the most part getting fat from lucrative government contracts that don't make us any safer now then pre 9/11 - and if anyone thinks the airlines or ports are any safer as a result of all this spending on homeland defense is seriously lacking some brain tissue. Some companies have stopped marketing sodium hydroxide based toilet cleaners because druggies were using them to make drugs in crystal meth labs - well guess what NAOH is a common chemical used to do a lot of things. And guess what when you build logs in a fireplace and have a fire and what you are left is wood ash. Well mix that with water and now you have potassium hydroxide - a suitable replacement. How are you going legislate against that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PLD 14 Report post Posted March 1, 2007 >> The price for freedom is sometimes great Amen. Too great for most because freedom is uncomfortable and scary. A deer who dies of starvation in the wild is truly free, a monkey who gets hand fed every day is not. Most people would rather be comfortable than free. >> government in the end can never really truly protect us - even though they try to sell fear and protection. Amen again. Republicans sell fear of terrorists and druggies (war on terror/drugs), Democrats sell fear of personal incompetence and failure (social security, socialized medicine) >> Funny how I am a liberal democrat who has the exact same views as Philip Doolittle on issues Doesn't surprise me at all. I'm a libertarian. We are socially liberal and economically conservative. >> I believe republicans are for the most part getting fat from lucrative government contracts that don't make us any safer now then pre 9/11 - and if anyone thinks the airlines or ports are any safer as a result of all this spending on homeland defense is seriously lacking some brain tissue. They are. We can't even keep 10 million poor uneducated mexicans out of the US and by some miracle we are going to keep out 10-12 heavily trained, heavily funded militant goons who believe they are acting on orders from God almighty?!? I might have been born at night, but it was not last night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 plainpainter 217 Report post Posted March 1, 2007 Phillip I like your comment how we can't keep these illegal immigrants out - how the heck can we keep highly motivated and trained fundamentalists out? Yet I bet this thought hasn't occured to most Americans. In the end government can't protect us - unless we learn to make amends with these people - but I'd rather be paying less taxes than more, knowing that money is wasted. Hey how about that for a political platform - make friends, make amends, lower taxes. Perhaps the powers that be - don't want to make peace? If we did - we would no longer have such a huge military budget - what trough would they then pilfer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
With the recent attacks in Iraq, you think the govt will start getting involved with who gets chlorine?
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