MMI Enterprises

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1991/feist91a.pdf "Two basic types of finishes (or treatments) are used to protect wood surfaces during outdoor weathering: (a) those that form a film, layer or coating on the wood surface, and (b) those that penetrate the wood surface leaving no distinct layer or coating. Filmforming materials include paints of all descriptions, varnishes. lacquers and also overlays bonded to the wood surface. Penetrating finishes include preservatives, water repellents, pigmented semitransparent stains and chemical treatments (Banov 1973)." "Latex paints are suspensions of inorganic pigments and various latex resins in water, and form porous coatings. When pigments are added to water-repellent preservative solutions or to similar transparent wood finishes, the mixture is classified as a pigmented penetrating stain (sometimes referred to as an impregnating paint). Addition of pigment provides color and greatly increases the durability of the finish. The semitransparent pigmented penetrating stains permit much of the wood grain to show through they penetrate into the wood without forming a continuous layer." "Commercial finishes known as heavy-bodied, solid color or opaque stains are also available. but these products are essentially similar to paint because of their film-forming characteristics." ------------------------------ http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/finlines/knaeb95b.pdf "Latex paints are also more porous than oil-base paints; they can “breathe” while they shed water." "Solid-color stains also form a film. They look and act like thin paints." "Semitransparent stains penetrate the wood without forming a film, allowing much of the wood grain to show through the finish. Latex-base semitransparent stains are film-forming finishes and will not perform like true penetrating stains. Oil-base semitransparent stains allow the wood to “breathe,” so the finish doesn’t blister or peel even if the moisture content of the wood is high." Beth, thanx..your links try to prove my points well.. If we are to believe these last few goobermint info's do not contain contradiction, and I don't believe they necessarily do at all, then we are to believe both latex paint and oil based semi trans stains can breathe. We should realize though that they most likely do mean breathing at a vapor transmission level rather than solid liquid passing through... But main message that can be taken is that as the solid level of an oilborne increases the ensueing coating (mandated) results in non-breathability via thickness and what we end up with is paint. Thickness equals solids..solids equal loss of texture when a film is formed covering it-- aka PAINT. Paint will continue to mean covering visually and physically. Stain will cntinue to mean not covering physically as much as a paint. "For wood, staining is the act of applying a color or pigment at any level upto opaqueness without totally doing away with surface texture. Total opaqueness with thick film formation that covers texture is painting."

Why argue then? :).. but please do point to what ya want us to read as Cabot is not saying anything there about their solid OVT stain (which I use btw) doing away with a woods texture. Of course a solid covers grain visually.. Am talking about texture here. Or feel or 3D..ya know.

You, Beth, and Cabot, can all go fly kites together with Cabot facts..everybody knows the reference Beth would provide was gonna be by Cabot.. lol (edit-..opp, sorry, Cabot didn't really say any facts effecting our points):) Oh and hey.. Marriage is between a man and a woman and let's hope that meaning don't change too.

Just a way of showing things in a scrollable window. Since he don't own that content how else better could he display on his site Beth? Isn't much different than say how the watercooler here looks..that is Java whereas other places used to use iframe for same purpose.

Keep the iframe. It is informative and ensures they stay with you.. Just don't count on what is in there as searchable or for keyword use.

Might want to rethink your reply, as saying "cover the grain" can be interprited as either visually, texturely, or both. Show me a solid stain (opaque by definition) that also film forms to point of not presenting the wood texture and I'll show you a paint. In generic sense a staining has pretty much always implied a coloration within something wthout regard to a top coat. Wood is no different really in that sense than say a shirt or a slab of concrete. But do realize I meant staining as an act. Silly stain/paint manufactures can try to change things all they want and call product what they want. In the end it is either stain or it is paint. Regardless, I consider my two statements accurate. ps- Stain/paint or the act of staining/painting has never meant or stood for something that is breathable or sealed. Is but a result on ocassion depending on their makeup.

He had a pretty good couple paragraph going on in the 'about us'. Hope he didn't loose it totally. That residential is still an image isn't it? You inspired me to go fix somethings on mine.. thanx!!..hell I don't even have an about page..lol.. I start to write one but it comes out with too much vanity :). I might just do a contact page and forget it.

There ya go.. RE: what John said to them mofo's..They probably don't follow no Roberts rules neither..too typical. Have same situation around me.

Can't as the 'about us' section is only pictures right now(one is poor resolution)..maybe your working on it? All I can say is ya have to be able to read it out loud and it make sense to the listener. It did not read right.

For wood, staining is the act of applying a color or pigment at any level upto opaqueness without totally doing away with surface texture. Total opaqueness with thick film formation that covers texture is painting.

yea mutt would be the word.. they hang around for scraps. Isn't ethical for a board to accept bids from a member privy to all the bid info. Is unfair bidding practice. What a slimeball/lowballin bunch of creeps!

Wow Lance..what kinda funk was going on up under that overhang on yer first page??..great results!!

It works and is decent enough. Customers will buy from you is my feeling. Check your first page.. ya need an "r" : "you FREE ESTIMATE" Check grammar on 'about us'.. good going man! :)

Don't think I'd have guessed that to be pressure treated..in seeing first pic it looks pretty dang good. Did you say if there had been anything on this deck before?....last pic looks to me to be showing something or other. On the dock.. maybe just stick with product you know you won't ever have to strip or use strong chems on.

And note the 12oz level as yer gonna need it.. :)

Surely Ken will be along soon enough to answer the RAD questions...but hey maybe we can get you to be the first to try Armstrong Clark Stains on IPE. Folks are having pretty good results with it on other woods! :)

John you must be using the prduct actually called Wood Toner under the toner section(3rd one down?) : Olympic Stain - Toners This guy had used Maximum Waterproofing Sealant under the toner section (1st product listed). We had the can there as reference. Here are pics of where he put on front fence showing how that one can lap or leave shine if applied incorrectly:

Then yer saying the toner is a decnt departure from the max (brown can)?. You see that other thread where one of my HO's got the green can stuff all over the place with pump-up?..looked to be creating a film to me where he was actually able to get it on the fence, seemed no different in that case then the brown can..had shine, had lap marks from heavy application.

.always a good looking mix, and easy ratios too. Gotta do it someday!! ps- ya mean western Red cedar?

Lots of good advice going on. Mine would be going door to door commercially and maybe get creative on what you can clean or service. Things get tuff you may have to grab a broom, blower, or mop Oh..but please don't max your cards out with advertizing. In doing such you will not only effect your credit score but some creditors will then boost yer rate putting you back even more per month.

Beautiful deck!..what color is that stain?

Well Rick I like to view them as any cleaner that effectively removes a synthetic or organic oil, grease, etc....and that would be what yer doing in using a degreaser after cleaning or getting things going in some the solvent. Mineral spirits in perticular like to leave some residue, lacquer thinner or acetone not really but when the stuff evaps off a residue of the stain oils or what have you may be left behind. So is just a standard recommendation to stick stuff in degreaser and water for a good thorough rinsing after using solvent. When using the stronger solvents your not gonna want to be soaking your stuff for long. If lacquer thinner doesn't clean them then acetone will...what's yer results? ps- purple power, krud cutter, 409, simple green, tsp

Umm ya mean like when new prez comes in they can then raise the intererst rates to save the dollar.. is that what ya mean Ron? Thatz how they say it'll go down and so all we can do is hope the depression is not too deep.

Haaa...green toner and pump-up's. HOer's can find anything unfriendly John.. When I walked in on this job there was lap marks too.

Swirl them around in lacquer thinner till it gives then clean in degreaser.