MMI Enterprises

What was yer guess Rich?... two woods involved or just one?

Rich, What then on interior log... waterbased acrylics, poly? I lost a job recently due partly to unwillingness to make a bid simple by not discussing the use of interior stain versus exterior. It was like as soon as I mentioned having to use more then one product besides the exterior product the client became disinterested. No way I'm putting an oil inside not specific for interiors. Nice way to kill people with fumes. Also, what are your general thoughts on the Permachink line?

..as if natural oils, resins, and extractives are pretty much not interchangeable. Extractives are anything that can be extracted. How is the unknown time spent weathering before you get to it any less irrelevent then the time you would wait after you see it and before you decide to stain it?. Clock starts ticking as soon as tree is felled and wood is opened up to outside as it is about 'evaporation' whether you recognize the naturals as being oil,resin, or as extractives. What yer saying is you want people to give up their decay and insect, etc. resistance for sake of putting in products that will only last a year as it won't penetrate anyway. Build it, shoot it, shoot it again. You wait for extractives to make room then you done made room for dimensional change night in night out while your away. Unwanted freeze/thaw and uv graying may take some toll. Perhaps that depends on many factors, regardless that is why I said if moisture is low enough. Guess what?. You say yerself nothing lasts more then a year so why try for a few? shoot it, then shoot it again is not guessing or testing. It is what most say or imply is needed for IPE. Ah but now you come out with a solution to being able to seal and stain an IPE at what point in convo?. What you fail to recognize is that all that time of them extractives coming out there is cyclical temps at play as well to the less protected outer surfaces where the extractives are not present. If you reread you'll see where I said and implied proper prep and cleaning along with low enough moisture. I am not for allowing cyclical damage. What you sound like your pushing is that some might try or advocate shooting an unprepped wood surface? Apparently Ken is gonna have to sand and then remove some extractives OR sand and then wait 6 month before he is gonna stain or seal this deck..laughable Ever consider using turpentine products on Ipe? ps- Don't think anyone said anything would last much beyond a year, certainly not I nor you ,so tell me again why it best to let this IPE sit unstained for 6 month please.. . seriously, what have you got to loose or gain by staining right away or not staining right away? Ok since you like education..you have a smooth surface to loose to microscopic splintered surface at the least due to freeze thaw while yer waiting for spring.

I have 110 unit so can't really speak much to the 12volt. Can't see it being electrodes out of adjust if it firing at one point. If it spraying then, if set up properly, it should be firing as the circuit is complete. Exception would be situation where that unit is setup with two seperate circuits through various switches and the one allowing the transformer to be energized is not complete. Transformer could be on way out but I would try to track the circuit and confirm that it has power going to it when the fuel solinoid one does. Temporarily bypass the various flow or pressure switches for to eliminate their being of issue. Try a search on here as there have been threads recently with schematics of a burner circuit. Can't find it let me know..

I see what he said.. ..and it addresses the finish doing much better and NOT the wood. In fact I read it that he acknowledges there will be more prep. Go ahead, your welcome to explain what you think he may mean by that. Does he mean to say you will have to chemically remove only weathered wood fiber caused by uv graying? or could he be eluding to other chores such as warped wood joint, plug, or general sanding of muffed up grain? People want smooth wood as it was built and intended to be. Your welcome to your opinion that they don't and so is he if he feels same. Your also welcome to pay a deck installer to install a nice smoothly sanded deck on your property and then not seal it up right away. You'll be sanding it a few down the road before your do end up staining so as to make it a showplace to be proud of. :)

Beth, A little more to hold onto equals a little more degredation or grain shrinkage or warping, etc. no matter the wood as that comes by way of natural oil loss. Can't quantify a waiting time for stain penetration or adhesion with any wood as being more beneficial over other concerns of dimensional changes to the wood when it is not known how long it been since tree was fell, cut, shipped, stored in a yard, laid in builders yard or truck, etc. If water moisture is low enough and it cleaned properly then ya stain it. If you want a little more surface adhesion then rough it up more is my best advice for ya. All wood is cut dimensionally with it's current natural oil moisture level in mind and that is what you want to either keep in mind or mimic over offering a one shot stain that is to last a few years which perhaps seems better sounding to some HO or some contractors bottom line. Shoot it, then shoot it again if need be down the road. Interior fine furniture finishers that dry their wood or even exterior builders would not want some 3rd party wood worker to let their work be weathered further before staining. They cut, build, glue, and sand joints to be smooth and fine not muffed up. Sorry if it seems to offend but it needs said.. Pure and simple what yer saying is some of the poorest advice still spewn on the boards. End of story.

Scott...sorry was editing and added more info above.. Another issue with getting the pigments into wood compared to concrete is that in the concrete field the dyes carrier is acetone and/or lacquer thinner. Check out Colormaker, Brickform, Diatech, etc. for these type. Acid staining can be used underneith as well. So on wood we have a different situation of what will be the carrier. You don't want it to be an oil that takes up the pore space that the silica needs to go into. The DiaTech is waterbased I believe but will be quikly seen that they are geared towards bright colorful tones for concrete. Need a water based parafinic acting stain or dye with no oils...haha ps- my densifier runs $100 per fiver...and yers is?

Yea what he said :) That's why I had said "from all but the UV graying?" in an aggreable fashion to the needing more. :) But with that said, let's talk about this and consider a few things.. Scott, yer densifier/petrifier (btw, is silica-not silicon) got a pigment in it? Since the stuff is a penetratng product it should be able to simply carry them staight into wood same as RS products do and but encapsulate the pigment with no future evaporation of solvent or wear of resins that expose the pigment to further wear. Difference with these products folks is that in densifying they form crystals that, in fact, can actually be polished about same as a crystal within the wood. Tint or dye underneith and you are indeed left with a permenant situation compared to top coating it with a stain. I urge you to do research into the polished concrete field and get back to me. Yes it is not same as concrete, yet it is in theory since water and swelling is prevented IF whole board was to be treated. (For benefit of the original poster,that is not case though of course in a restoration situation with parts of underneith decking being untreatable) This process is untested yet but I would be willing to bet that if you soak a board in a concoction of silica and dye and then lap polish it all the way up to 3000-3500 grit that you will have a permenant situation probably better then trex or a topical film forming poly that can bond fail. It won't be as durable as concrete by nature of it being a mix of silica and wood fiber but hey it sure would look awesome to some (like plastic,,haha)and last dang good. Anything less then polished would allow more friction wear per sq. inch and is partly why the idea of it being permenant on wood is flawed. I mean afterall, permenant implies from about 15 to 30 year. :) Some further background of the silica's in the concrete field: The process of polishing concrete usually requires substrate to be dense and hard so as to prevent microscopic pitting and flaking, etc. to acheive the high sheen. These products were designed originally just to make slabs harder and to control dust in warehouse situations but as of late is used extensively in all types of situations of concrete where a topical coating is not desired...even for concrete countertops. It does away with any need for sealer or coatings. Can be seen in use at IKEA, Home Depot, Chipotle, large grocery stores throughout the West, hospital,.... you name it. Is way beyond standard decorative concrete methods that use topical acrylic sealers, epoxy, polyurethanes. Anyone interested in getting into deco crete should be checking it out as most else that involves smooth surface finishing will be obsolete soon enough in IMO. Exception is stamped/textured concrete where a gloss is desired. (can't effectively polish a texured surface impregnated with hardner) Some links-- The product used here (liquihard) in the following system are a good solution: INDUROSHINE Polished Concrete Flooring System ,compared to Retroplate which requires undergoing their training: RETRO PLATE

Yea but Fenner is cheating, he doin an IPE job right now... Whatup with that Ken?...thought you closed shop for Winter?

What James.. you not had opportunity to try my King Kevster's Velvet Elvis?..haha Basically is a 20" osborn as it is impregnated and made of same stuff.

Trade the yellow hair for the orange drill.lol.. But seriously, men with brown hair is more common and readily acceptable to people then blonde and is understood to be most desired by opposite *** even more so than brunette. DIY has to be viewable as a whole. Mittens.lol.. they have to be the saddle suade leather gloves! Pea green stinks... change the font color, change the pants to blue jeans! Give him some eye goggles and more definition to the drill. No swedish, finish, austrian, hitlerish arian blonde vibe!..haha.. my kids are blode blue eyed but of course I am brown haired mutt myself..If anything, go burly/curly dark look of Italian if not brown with wavy definition...just my 2 cents..haha...can I be a member, can I be the model?.. I look like Costner/Hitler mix.. :)

How about prep..what all you have to do?.. What's the caulking situation and how's it look up close?

To play devils advocate.... Wow hold on people!! Do you have a single shread of evidence that the silicate/densifier products will not do what they claim in way of protecting wood from all but the UV graying? The products are used all time on polished concrete and is rock solid... With that said Caveat Emptor.. :)

My take..This is not a restore and so it just seems builder needs a little help with final prep...aka- Fenner... If it were a few weeks down road and pics were after anyone good got hold of it there would be no issue or contemplation of whether anything of the build or prep is at issue. Is just unfinished. I don't see customers or builders building such a fine deck having any need for keeping a down the raod "undo" at heart. The plugging and use of the IPE in first place signifies a plan of long term that likely includes sealing and protection. This deck could last 30 to 60 years or more properly cared for...who knows?. IMO plugging is mainly a matter of cosmetic taste and yet on a long lasting deck like this I do see advantages of preventing foot wear of the planks around the countersink and the added prevention against water entry. I'm opposed to letting the wood weather. Always best to try and prevent cyclical weather damage by sealing/staining. Ya just make it known that it will likely take stain better later ona second time around in a year or two. Belt or drum it, stain it..it'll be beautiful deck no matter what wood.

Looks like finely selected and worked Doug Fir to me.

I sorta like it and think it looks fairly kick.. :) Height of rail matches into the house screened porch well to allow HO to see over it from that area and if they do stick chairs out there they can put feet up on rail. Toddlers can ride their big wheels around on it without worry of falling off. Might as well have made it even shorter though so people don't try sitting on it...a wrap around sitable situation that achomplishes all would be nice.

IF you get it to flow/spray instead of draw lines or sputter you should be able to smooth things out after. Make sure to protect things from overspray and try not to stop and start all the time. Spread it or smooth things out within 10 min. or so. But that is oil, I don't use waterbase. ps- most are made for sealers and once you put oil in them the solvent wreck havock. Got to have a type that has the right type seals like viton and to where the trigger and tips can be cleaned easy. My Chapin uses the trigger itself to take the inerds apart to clean. Is pretty quik. I use it for other chems though.

Looks too low to have to meet a regulation.

Yea da pole one...$14 at da True Value..unsure if Hd has.

Cleanup does not take long and is no mess at all with either my DIY hvlp or my airless. Rollers, brushes, and pads are what make mess and and take time. The hvlp I spray till it all gone, turn off air side, then add a couple cups of mineral spirits to the tank and spray into a empty spirit jug. Takes about 2 minutes flat. The airless I lift the siphon tube, flip the reverse tip, and squirt spray the left over product that didn't spray back to container. Then I replace product container with coffee can with a few cup of spirits and spray that to empty jug. Takes a few minutes...no mess You'll regret the pump up beyond words..Slightest change of stain viscosity they spray different, different amount of pumps they spray different, first pull of trigger they spray different. If the trigger don't get clogged the tips do. They not a very tight spray, etc......surflow itn't all that fun neither on cleanup but once you dial them in they spray pretty good.

Ken, Is it safe? Exposed rebar!.. yikes.. My bro could have died when a wood tressle broke underneith him when we were kids. He was carry cases of beer across a concrete spillway during a mountain fishing trip and fell off something like 15' to the crete below. If he fell one side he would of landed right on rebar spikes. As it was he was all messed up with broken arm, collar bone, teeth, etc.. My dad and uncle both broke their backs as well jumping down to him and all three went to hospital that day. Hearing of this boardwalk gives me the heebie geebies to no end!

Yea if ya can't get into a sprayer just yet you'll enjoy a high quality brush. The big honkin china bristle brush from your True Value is nice. Man they are really nice!

What brand ya using?.. Always nice to know which stains are non-wet edge friendly. Rolling is for the birds. Get an HVLP, Airless, or Surflow type sprayer. You'll be able to spray a 1k sq. ft. of prepared deck in minutes. Prep and cleanup of equipment takes longer.. To answer your last question.... You don't have to back brush persay after spraying but rather you may want to back pad to remove excess stain and help it penetrate and blend better. Some stains can be shiny in areas of over application and padding helps. Takes but a couple minute to do directly after spraying.

Hey Dan I just mentioned that dry ice method the other day... too ironic :) ..you got more info on it? Shane I would say belt sander and Cabot OVT solid stain but I don't think it for horizontal decking. You got to anti graffiti it..haha

Awesome deck Ken! You not do the solid parts or have to sand any of it?