MMI Enterprises

Ken, I'll take that as a friendly chop busting...and yup thanx for the congrats, The new one will make 4 (far as I know for sure anyways) :) But back to topic..I really don't know what the deal though with you in refusing to understand there are indeed more than one or two tools for a job. I've already pretty much said my say on this trailer thing. I've explained I would prefure to see Jim try a car wash type product first cause in basic terms it may not be that bad. Your talking about theory and windows and gutters when, as I've conceded, we don't know what all is involved. Its a office trailer with grime. Hey if it's shiny or has many windows then don't use the tsp if ya like... :) Far as our experience goes, I probably could guess at yours as well and claim all you say is theory. True I haven't spent my carreer in exterior cleaning but whipty do da..lol I bought my first 50lb sack of tsp 22 years ago for interiors and prior to that grew up watching my old man use it in his carreer as an exterior painter. No real need to enter into appologetics for tsp on my part nor has there been much need to photograph its results. I could say however that your welcome to share up all them pics of tsp damage floating around. Just realize when I see them I will be asking what it looked like prior to cleaning, the strength used, etc...Have no idea or would not profess to know how it works on gutters. Btw, last time I used tsp on a comparable application was last week to remove very heavy road grime/deisel soot from my shiny white trailer before painting it. Sorry I did not take a picture for you but I assure you it was still shiny as I messed up and did not mix strong enough to actually bite. It turned out really clean and white but I ended up sanding it to get some bite. Other then that I used it in my deck mix for the recent arbor job pictured in my avitar.

Thaz ok I'll pass...you can have at it since it on yer mind apparently. Besides, Last I heard the magic in the air round here is blessing me with another one on the way. :)

sounds like Amazon :corn:

I do aim my wand to please.. :) ps.. hows that for a slogan/tag line?

"Chem theory takes a back door to real world experience" What's theory got to do with the topic? Last I heard it was fact that hydroxides can and do attack paint, butyl swells and softens vinyl and rubber, and professional painters and degreasing experts of all sorts of industry been using tsp for decades if not centuries actually. As you always like to mention Ken it is all about dilution and proper use methods. :) My experience tells me that when grime is so rough on a painted surface to where butyl based degreasers don't succesfully disolve it at a common sense dilution and the paints adhesion is in question due to multiple coatings over the years then I am presented with two choices.... I can go stronger with it and risk damage or I can use tsp and watch it disappear in a flash and a rinse with no damage beyond that which needed to come off anyways. Hypothetically a surface so heavily oxidized and dirty that a strong dilution of something is needed to remove is not a situation where we could expect a beautiful wax job underneith to all of a sudden be exposed. But honestly I would just use a carwash first on this project cause really truly as fas as we know a mild surfactant hasn't even yet been tried. If case be his 'recipe' is SH alone then that answers the question. Bleach don't make a good degreaser..

I doubt they do it out of neither your suggestion Scott but rather by way of giving a fella some credit. Credit in that a fella likely already knows most any chemical can do harm with the wrong procedures or dilution and credit in that since the fella mentioned "recipe" they likely already be using the chemical mentioned (aka-'the sauce') and have a grasp of dwell times, etc.. Facts are yes phosphates can damage and so can the three you mentioned. Sure at some point the use of some products may inspire a fella to give application and dilution disertation at great length but for most part it is not mandated here nor usually offered due to the nature of the chems we use not specifically being made for the expressed purpose of what we contemplate cleaning. Maybe the fella ought to just use trailer cleaner if he can find it.. :)My feeling is that much of what we do here on advice is open ended and demands further education or prior knowledge..i.e- "Use them sparingly and do not allow them to dwell long"..this of course is very open ended and begs for more clarification. Like one mans oz. is another mans cup or cup of tea.. :) p.s.- Btw Scott, Can you say what's in F13? Jim, Butyl based degreasers, such as some the purple type stuff', are not usually recommended for painted surfaces as they attack and strip. Butyl also swells and softens vinyl and rubber....I still use on some things though. You might want to try some Armor All type car wash that is marketed to not hurt finishes.

maybe stronger with the tsp for the road grime..

Speaking of.. still no samples Shane..

Past or currently unfolding issues with some stains sure are concerning. Almost got to wonder if your case Beth is one of manufacture satisfying all the small orders first. I like confirmation and tracking #'s the day things are posted...Did you call them?

That is scary stuff...better contact manufacture directly.

Wondering why you need pool shock but anyways check with these guys near you or ask them about 12% Sodium Hypochlorite. They might know something: Chlorine Specialties Inc 1027 California Dr, Burlingame-(650) 344-3999 Atherwood Pool Center 2991 Woodside Rd, Woodside - (650) 851-1201 John's Dairy & Pool Supply 1305 Petaluma Blvd N, Petaluma - (707) 762-8470

the multi bucket wagon is a savvy idear ..right on Bart!!

About every couple month or so I set out an assembly line using 32oz. plastic cups, a wash bucket, and spray can of silicone wire dryer. One cup I put 50/50 mix hydrochloric and water, another I put a cup of baking soda and water, and then the wash bucket with clean water. I dunk most my fittings, tips, spray bars, downstreamer, etc. one by one through the line and then spray them with silicone. When the males look funky I rub them with 220 grit. When I feel real frisky I'll add water and then run the left overs through my coil with a flojet and dump the baking soda on my battery terminals. I don't perticularily do this for sticky quik connects but for to clean the mineral buildup out the insides of the barbs. :)

seems good deal considering it's abilities.. them miles are like barely a scratch for a turbo diesel..wishin everything I have was diesal..

Yea they make heaps of products now..maybe the goof off 2 is sufficient. I'd be careful with using butyl based cleaners or strippers near vinyl as industry discovered a number of years back it can swell it.(again..floors in perticular) ps- can someone verify what the original Goof Off is composed of? ...Acetone or Lacquer thinner..I forget.. Link to solvent strengths and evaporation speed: ICS on Thinner

I don't think Ken's pics are of PT, but have seen what you describe when boards lay around on things like sheet metal or concrete. Not sure the effect necesarily points to iron but perhaps more to minerals in general that feed the growth..

If it same as this you may need about 6%.. lol :)

Don't think Goof Off is recommended on vinyl anything. If not mistaken it is acetone and will etch it.(does on vinyl flooring anyways).. What you been doing apparently is melting into it ever so slightly to remove the stain and by wiping it off you effectivley both mechanically and chemically end up resurfacing the vinyl to a shine. If you were to leave it on straight without wiping your likely to eat right on through it leaving a deglossed/pitted surface attractive to dirt. You'll be buying new siding in that case.. How about mineral spirits/paint thinner?..think thats what folks use for oil base cleanup on most things. Hitting siding or latex with some soapy water after that is not a bad idea neither. P.S.-- if the shine is near the edges it could also be that you cleaned oxidation off and exposed some clear silicone type calking material that had been smeared..just a thought. :)

my God man....I'd ask if your arms get sore but perhaps you beat that condition with your wand setup?

ah no prob long as we end up with more pics.. I'd say it depends on camera. Even some the cheapest things have a chip burried under a battery. I'd ask you to show us a pic of the cameras output jack to confirm it is a problem child but ummm you can't likely do that right now..lmaof :)

Seems familiar out my way in that sometimes there will be all this airborne yellowish pollin floating around and sticking to things and then when it is swept or washed away you get this stuff where things had been moist. Seen it on cardboard and pieces of paper just as often as on 2x4's.. P.S.- does look just like mildew as Beth says.. .. you know like on a window sill.. :)

percarb and chlorine= a no no chlorine = unsightly color to bare wood for some folks However! Acidic= lightening effects to new stain Alkaline= darkening effects ...being chlorine is way alkaline seems sorta backwards..haha

"When applying a stripper or cleaner what method do you use?" About $1k worth of aircompressor/dedicated pumps...I don't mess around with them slow methods.. :)

Rich, In my mention of past practices of aging wood abit before finishing being outdated I was refering to practice of waitng months not weeks to finish PT. Days or weeks unfinished is fine and is, as you mention, a recommended thing for wood subjected to the mechanical mill glazing. It is also recommended for to allow some lumber yard treatments to evaporate. Can't find specific info on that right now but I know Wolman talks about it somewheres in their literature while going through their certification and product education. As I understand it we have two or three things to worry about with new wood. Good old fashioned paraffin wax used during manufacture of PT, lumberyard treatment with preservatives, and mechanical mill glaze. I do not know how such conditions are placed upon the various areas of the country..Wouldn't doubt some portion of the talk below is Wolman tooting their horn and many lumberyard woods are raw.. "The Wolman technology extends beyond pressure-treated wood. Wolman Wood Care Products is the industry leader in the protection of fresh cut timber, supplying sawmills with special coatings for raw lumber. In fact, there is a good chance you already have Wolman Products in your home now. Over 60% of the sawmills in the United States and Canada use Wolman Products. Leading window and door manufacturers apply Wolman millwork chemicals to strengthen and stabilize the wood used in their products. And homeowners can enjoy the beauty and protection that Wolman weatherproofing finishes give to their outdoor wood structures. From start to finish, understanding the wood market is Wolman® Wood Care Products’ business and specialty." -------------------------------------------- "Surface Preparation Q: If my wood is new, why do I need to clean it? A: Today's pressure-treated wood is made with more paraffin wax to protect it when it is stacked at the lumberyard. This additional wax results in a thicker waxy build-up on the surface. Cedar and Redwood species are often subject to a condition called "mill glaze", a burnished surface glaze that results after the fresh cut lumber is planed at the mill. The presence of these surface barriers prohibit a finish coating from properly penetrating the wood. Without proper penetration, exterior wood coatings cannot give optimum protection, and poor coating performance may result. Uneven finish appearance, premature fading or shortened water repellency life-span are common consequences that would normally not occur if a finish coating is properly absorbed. WOLMAN wood cleaners are specifically formulated to remove surface barriers from new wood, so that protective finishes can be applied immediately to prohibit any damage from water absorption, mildew growth and UV exposure. " ------------------------------------- "For New Wood: Prepare the Surface! New wood installations may appear clean, free of contaminants and ready to coat, but appearances can be deceiving! Just as in the restoration of old wood, it is necessary to prepare the surface of the new wood before coating. Preparing the surface involves cleaning the brand new, uncoated surface in order to open the wood pores so that a coating can properly penetrate and adhere to the surface. Also, some new wood species, such as Cedar and Redwood, can harbor an invisible surface barrier called “mill glaze” that will impede the penetration of a top-coat. Mill glaze appears as a burnished surface, and is often present on new Cedar lumber, a result of the planing process it goes through at the lumber mill before shipping out to the wholesaler or retailer. By cleaning the glazed surface, wood pores are unclogged and opened, allowing for better coating penetration and adhesion, and ultimately longer, better performance." ----------------------------------------------

no...it works fer me