MMI Enterprises

Think it is said that the bleach cleans or gets rid of mold by way of the chlorine gas so go figure... maybe it like that saying 'ya can't have one without the other'. Ammonia is like a kicker or catylist and sets things off like all at once.. or something like that. If and when the dawn is mixed with percarb it can foam like nuts and cause an explosion if enclosed.....pssst , not a chemist, don't quote me.. :)

Mental note to self....Don't picture Ken with vine in his mouth getting ready to dance..... :) got pics?

Can't speak to WTW specifically but.. Although its been past practice to let some types of wood age a bit outdoors before sealing, most current wood care advice goes that it is best to get things stained and sealed the moment it is exposed to the elements to protect against dimensional changes. Some wood comes out the mill with a mild form of protection/glaze coat so surely that could be a factor on things.

Mental note to self...everyone is speaking in singularity or past tense...lol.. CAN YOU SAY PITA?? :)

Yea that is some nice wood there Rick. Mine was all knotty and the 2x2's parched like a stranger in a desert. Owner was considering trashing them due to all the moldy moss junk until I told him I could clean it off. As you mentioned drips I went back over and touched up the stucco above the slider. :)

Active chemical is usually sodium hydroxide in oven cleaners so answer is yes...people use all the time in powder or liquid form bought in bulk.

Yea that be pure pita factor too..can't imagine one not being.. :) I was not shy with the tarps for windows and walls (mainly to protect during cleaning) and I was fully suited up with face respirator during cleaning and staining both. Felt no need to protect concrete below since I use HVLP properly adjusted..I would never want to do this type job without full on atomization. p.s.-and about the sq. footage..when I first eyeballed it I thought it 15'x10'..It was 20x12=240. This one I did with the 2x2's should probably be priced x3 considering the two sides and the joists. Ya think that one you did would be about x2 since there be only joist?

Most folk don't want to risk strong chems going through their pumps via upstreaming as they believe it hurts the packings.. I would tend to agree, better be safe then sorry. Design and sales of equipment for to upstream weaker chems is common though.. i.e- Hotsey P.S.- I think maybe the bypass is reverted to either a float tank or after the float tank in a small simple loop.

:2eyes: What??..that don't sound right...bypass is before downstreamer aint it?

Am interested in where your getting it as well as brand, etc... Raw flax seed oil drying that quik don't sound raw to me. Is supposed to take days if not weeks..

Larry, With 12% Apple Sauce recipe starts at 3.6% mixed -- .036x5gal/.12=1.5gal ...and goes upto 5%--- .05x5gal/.12= 2 gal. It is for roofs and I think some say ya can go upto 6% or so on them. On housewashes though the consensus is to not go over 4%.. The math formula above in my other post is real fast and you can't go wrong with it.. for apple sauce with 10%: .036 5 gal .18 1 X .10 = .10 = 1.8 GAL.

Ok Daniel, I have found a most important website link for you to review. Maybe it will help to define the recipe items more discretly: Boiled (a term for mixing raw oil, solvents, driers) = fast dry Bodied (actually boiled oil) = not so fast :) Seatons :: Natural oils for industry - Stand & blown oils

The alkyd (resin,binder) is a product in and of itself made by reactive processes. As I understand it, it is supplied to the paint/stain manufactures and they then perform their formulations/mixes which include it. It's properties as stand alone product don't dictate it as fast drying. The overall speed of the mix curing out is probably some average between the recipe items or what they allow of each other. In viewing the recipe items as individuals stuck in their specific chemical state a manufacture or tweaker can hopefully arrive at a product with all the qualities they and we are after. "I thought that a bodied linseed oil is already polymerised in the can, would only have to wait for the spirits to leach out and then it is automatically cured." Stand oil is product in and of itself and is polymerized yes but not cured which is by means of chemical oxidation. It is a recipe item.

Daniel, There is some confusion..I'll try to help... Boiled refers to mix of raw oil, solvents which can be of varying speed, and driers...drys faster.. Bodied refers to raw oil heated without oxygen present to thicken and polymerize hence the implied term that it has more body. It will not help another consistancy oil dive deeper. In case of bodied linseed oil... they dry slower then boiled and they are called 'stand oil'. It's use is to thicken oil mixes and give durability properties. This heating act/polymerization is known as crosslinking which makes a finish durable and solvent resistant and but far as I know doesn't make for neither a faster 'surface' cure or a faster 'through' cure. The term cure means and comes by way of evaporation of the solvent initially and then mainly oxygen uptake (oxydation) creating a reaction (causes heat btw)that turns the oil into a solid composed of a totally different chemical makeup. This fully completed process relates to the general or full curing time. The term 'stand' has two fold meaning in that such oil stands up (has body) or that such oil stands up (has durability). :) . In a sense perhaps you can now see that the resultant thicker/polymerized/crosslinked particles are suspended in a medium and are not really more so on their way to being cured persay... (such is also done in acrylic water based finish). Another way to thicken an oil is to blow it which is act of passing warm to hot air through it....Forgive if this is not totally accurate as it is late and I am not a chemist. You can gleam all this from readily available websites like wikipedia or sites dedicated to oil paintings if you really study hard. This one not bad: Tung & Linseed Oils (note how tung will be faster if bodied in general)

Daniel, There is some confusion..I'll try to help... Boiled refers to mix of raw oil, solvents which can be of varying speed, and driers...drys faster.. Bodied refers to raw oil heated without oxygen present to thicken and polymerize hence the implied term that it has more body. It will not help another consistancy oil dive deeper. In case of bodied linseed oil... they dry slower then boiled and they are called 'stand oil'. It's use is to thicken oil mixes and give durability properties. This heating act/polymerization is known as crosslinking which makes a finish durable and solvent resistant and but far as I know doesn't make for neither a faster 'surface' cure or a faster 'through' cure. The term cure means and comes by way of evaporation of the solvent initially and then mainly oxygen uptake (oxydation) creating a reaction (causes heat btw)that turns the oil into a solid composed of a totally different chemical makeup. This fully completed process relates to the general or full curing time. The term 'stand' has two fold meaning in that such oil stands up (has body) or that such oil stands up (has durability). :) . In a sense perhaps you can now see that the resultant thicker/polymerized/crosslinked particles are suspended in a medium and are not really more so on their way to being cured persay... (such is also done in acrylic water based finish). Another way to thicken an oil is to blow it which is act of passing warm to hot air through it....Forgive if this is not totally accurate as it is late and I am not a chemist. You can gleam all this from readily available websites like wikipedia or sites dedicated to oil paintings if you really study hard. This one not bad: Tung & Linseed Oils (note how tung will be faster if bodied in general)

watering down and spreading things out is what we do best. It has bennefits...it makes people have to work for things and keeps us busy..lol

Ken, Are you serious? Nobody is saying anything out of the ordinary. Nothing wrong with this job being done with various chems or methods outside your current business plan. There are only two of us here mentioning other chems other then hydroxide so I assume your head banging is over Ricks danger ridden example of why not to use it. Granted you can dilute it to be about harmless but really why go there? I see no past evidence of stain or sealer.(am interested of course in What Rod sees..do share Rod) Fact is your right about efficiency but only in respect that it perhaps be more likely that a stronger mix of S/H would end up getting applied due to stronger starting strength prior to mixing and therefore the gray more likely to be removed quiker. Stain removal/bleaching is just as, or more likely, with the percarb or percarb mix then s/h alone. If applied strengths/effective cleaning power are made equal I would rather use the percarb any day. Thing is the percarb mix only lasts part of a day so maybe that part of why many like to use whether the wood needs it or not. Personally the percarb runs a little cheaper for me.With that said I am not really recommending percarb alone..as you likely know I kinda like the 'modified apple sauce'.. For sake of example of dilution and trivia.... hydroxide is brushed on pretzels to make the outside crisp.. :) Here is another thing to consider here on this project... this project could likely turn out just fine with oxalic alone.. Speaking of oxalic...am interested in what % strength you shoot for in your chem tank prior to downstreaming. Does it disolve for you guys well in cold water or no?. I been using citric and but last time I used the oxalic the cold water didn't work so well... Figures I came up with based on 20% (5:1)downstreamer is that to be equal with standard straight spray on (6oz.) is that you would need to have 23.43% (30oz) mix per gal. Is that correct?..

Oh and it don't matter cause Baker's is supposed to be the bomb..haha..

Yup..that what I said just in different words :) I'm glad you understand it....,haha... The 1) reason is right on..I doubt the theory of 2) though. With that under our belt I double dare ya to sand a deck to about 400 and then stain. There won't be issue I suspect. All the times I've done interior wood pieces as such I never noticed traffic related wear issues. I mean tables usually don't get much traffic but gun stocks do. ... Hey in thinking about it ya think it possable them folks just washed that deck too much?

He know not what kind of can of worms he put in everyones face do he???..:)

DSing is as it implies means your streaming chemical downstream of the pump.. so your not likely to hurt anything. The DSer with machine powering it's venturi will dilute chems for you. Depending how strong you need you can dilute the chem first into a mix bucket or like Ken perhaps means to say you can just drop your DS line into a straight bucket of chemical and let the DS and it's adjustment valve do the work of ratios for you.(upto about 20%). There are other methods using small dedicated pumps to force feed the DSer more chem to improve your ratio if ya like.

Ken.... My belief is that number one goal firstly should be to not do more then needed to get the wood to condition to stain or seal and to not harm customers property... Mixing percarb powder takes no longer then hydroxide flakes but I hear what yer saying in that your using concentrated liquid form. Not sure discussing methods of application or efficiency plays part of the decission to be made here...I don't know how he goes about applying things and apparently you perhaps assume too much on how I would go about it but here I'll tell you I have most all methods of application dreampt up. Not gonna get too much into except for saying that ALL my cleaning/stripping/neutralizing application equipment stays in trailer and I currently can put out over 4gpm straight chemical if I wish through either my main pressure hose or dedicated 5/8 hose so I am right there with ya :)

Scott, been watching Mythbusters?....They did that with all sorts of items...Forget which item was meant to be tested to see if it would kill ya but things like paint cans, hammers, and 5 gal buckets will apparently do ya in too....:bullistic:

A little in contrast here but I don't see it needing hydroxide...but hey I am just a newbie..... Why take the chance of furring it when this will turn out like new if just percarbed and then oxalic neutralized??.. I say oxalic as I would want them nail bleeds gone...

Oh sorry Rick. I misread that ya had used pads.....You have the right word though in 'burnishing' if you were spinning fast enough to create heat. (maybe 1k rpm on up). Polishing is via abrasive or grit and burnish is via heat producing friction. In floor care I run the spectrum in using both abrasion and friction to create gloss..have used literally hundreds of models of pads by various manufacture.. is a fine art....basically for defelting it should be best to stay away from anything that can load up..open weave good, thermal pad bad... I want to get this straight with you though...You saying when you did what you did you got just as much stain into the wood in the effected areas and it was the wood being too smooth or slick that caused failure?... You like somewhere around 100 grit smoothness I take it? I can't really picture too smooth wood causes failure less it be a film forming sealer but can picture case where burnishing sealer or natural wood resins could cause less penetration of RS type products.