JFife

Rick, That is the first good pic I've seen of a silver'd ipe deck.....and I kinda don't mind that look! Actually, if it weren't for the red spots at the top of the spindles, I'd say it looked halfway decent. I mean, nothing as good as the look of oiled ipe, but it sure isn't as hideous as other woods when they age.

Good post.....but your thought of a deck lasting for 3yrs is a crack dream. I've never---and never expect to---seen a deck floor look great past about 1.5yrs.

Roberta, How heavy does the Petriwood need to be applied on the telephone poles? 100sqft/gal? 50 sqft/gal? 25 sqft/gal? Because as I understand from this family of products, enough needs to be applied to completely penetrate to the heart......so 4-5" of penetration would be necessary if coating all sides of the pole. Sigmund Freud would have a field day with that last sentence.

Think about this, Rick. We agree (assumed) that wood drying slower is a good thing. If dried out already, dumping on a paraffin oil *may* re-bulk, and cause the wood to re-shape slightly. But in most drying situations, it is water that we aim to slow it's escape. So what about this: give those shakes a good, cleansing wash with HOT WATER?? After you've washed, let the surface dry (3 hrs or so, depending on side) and then coat it with RS!! The wood will be "re-bulked" with water....and you are going to do a quick surface seal with the RS, and this will cause the water inside to slooooowly evaperate, possibly causing the shakes to lay out evenly again. I'd be interested to see if this would work. Incidently, this is the reason I'd be a proponent of sealing *any* kind of deck as soon as possible. Sure, the stain/coloring may not last long, but you'll achieve the ultimate goal: keeping the wood from cracking, splintering, etc. IMO, the whole direction many have gone lately of letting the wood dry/season for a year is the wrong move. I understand the reason....you want the stain to look good for as long as possible, you don't want to be known as the guy who's stain fades off in 6 months. But with customer education, I think this would be the solution to keeping a treated deck in decent shape for the longest amount of time. Thoughts?

Very interesting stuff here. Scott, I don't think a filmer applied on one side would affect the cupping negatively. In fact, remembering back to decks I did, painted and solid stained decks always seem to have less cupping, warping, and splitting. I attribute that to a coating being applied early, resulting in a slow drying process. I've always been interested in the "re-bulking" theory. But I can't see us being able to apply something heavy enough---and force enough penetration---to ever get anything beyond 5-10mils beyond the surface. That is interesting about the shingles, Rick. That will give me something to piddle with.....I'd like to test something like that. edit: oops, I meant to quote Scott's post as well.

Dan, I am certainly not bashing Rick or his use of RS. I assure you, I would never care enough about someone else's biz to go that far. I was just making a point as to the darkness of his samples and showing him a similar situation that I had. FWIW, I agree with you about the RS color samples swatch. If I felt that their products would *consistently* look they way they do in the swatches, I'd be sold. But I can't handle inconsistent results. I am too much of a control freak. Back to Rick's use of RS, I've certainly never/would never discourage him. I don't care what product he uses----I don't even care if he uses a good product or does what I consider to be a good job---so long as my pal Rick is well paid and happy!!

HA!! Do you really go to bed at 8pm??? Well, we know what Ben Franklin said about "Early to bed"....no wonder you are able to turn down work!!!:)

1) Rick, I do want that Med. Red----sorry, just been busy and haven't got around to sending you an email. Thanks, and I'll get with you here soon. 2) Regarding test stain samples. Perhaps it is due to tannins, perhaps not. Attached are pics of 6yr old log siding stained with RS. This was my last job with RS, just too confusing of a product for me. The first two pics are samples of Med. Brown mixed 50/50 with Light Brown. And yes, these pics were taken several days after initial app. We waited and waited for color to "settle down", etc. so HO could see what final color would look like. We ended up going with Light Brown (3rd pic). This was what it looked like upon application. The 4th pic is after a few days. The LB color shifted. The MB did not. Now compare this MB pic to the one you just posted of that clear cedar decking. THIS is the type of thing that bothers me about RS. Final appearance is a total crapshoot. Anyways, I know the thread is about the barn. But your test spot pics reminded me of my final RS job 4yrs ago. 3) Strip and stain the guy's barn!! Why??? Because he wants you to!!!! Simple as that! If he is like me (and millions of others), he hates the faded gray look. Perhaps he could care less about preserving the historical value of gray wood....he's probably saying to himself, "IT'S JUST WOOD!!" Like someone else said, if this is what he wants, he's just going to find someone else that will do him a crappy job. So why not give him the service and quality he (and the home) deserves??

Okay, I've been staining my deck the last few years and posting pics on various sites, showing the wear and tear, etc. and critiquiing the products I've used. Thus far it has been: 1) 2005: Sikkens SRD 2) 2008: Woodrich TimberOil 3) Spring '09: Defy Epoxy Don't like the SRD, timberoil was a little better but at the 9 month point had faded significantly and was getting mold, DEFY doesn't look bad for 5 months. Getting mold in some areas, I'd guess that by spring it will have lost most of it's luster. My goal is to find something that is still lustrous after one full year. Anyways, I am putting on a new deck floor/handrails next week. I am wanting to finish it asap so that I can attempt to slow the warping/cracking of the PTP. I realize this will reduce the stain durability. So what do people want to see??? I'll give a realistic analysis, critique, etc. I'm thinking Baker's, just because I have far more confidence in the TWP line of products than any other stain. But I am open to suggestions if several people on here would like to see a certain product applied, as I can continuously offer pics, etc. to detail the durability. Thoughts? Oh yeah, I'm willing to do the deck half/half with two different products if the colors match ok.

The poster wasn't clear----I'm sure he meant to say that Baker's isn't VOC compliant in the Northeast, mid atlantic, and Cali.

Actually Chappy, I don't need to post any pics. Your third pic is what I'd describe as virbrant. The Baker's pics look about one coat of shorty of attaining vibrancy, IMO. That looks about like RS Light Brown to me. I'm not sure how you applied, but with the TWP products, that 2nd "wet" coat is of utmost importance. Really improves the appearance.

Very possibly true. I know most of my customers felt the same way---that the RS looked to drab. Kinda has an oily/dirty look. But let me get some pics of what I can vibrant, and you can offer a contrasting opinion. I'll post some pics later and refer quote this post.

Must be missing something----no songs come on whenever I log on. Or are u guys just talking about what is playing on the radio?

Rick, Actually I was suggest RS didn't have spirits....or at the least, very very little. I was thinking the solid content was in the mid-90's?? (basically straight oil) AFAIK, Baker's is about 30% spirits. The TWP 200 comes out of the box at 95%, and the Bakers is basically thinned down.

First off let me say big props to Jake Clarke. I hope he doesn't mind me pasting this, but this is the PM I just got from him: Jon, Any chance my A/C can get into this shoot out? Jake Armstrong Clark Co. NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT!!!!! With a pair of stones that size, I imagine Jake has trouble finding jeans that fit!! :) You got it brother, it will be a triple-stained deck floor, 1/3 Bakers, 1/3 RS, 1/3 AC. Would the sierra redwood be a good match to MED RED and SUPER CEDAR? I'll be applying RS exactly like Rick has suggested, and I'll talk w/ Ken and do AC and Bakers exactly as he suggests.

Lyle, Do you understand why the color turn so dark? Did what I say about the copper make sense, or is it something else?

Lyle, I'm familiar with the contractor of which you speak. They do some beautiful work. I believe they base the ratio (500 to 200) based on the porosity/appearance of the wood. Really old, dingy shingles will get a batch closer to straight 200, while the fresher wood gets something closer to 500. Have you ever played with 200? I've dabbled, but never applied to anything. All samples I did turned out darn near black---I don't care how long it holds up, I'm not a good enough salesman to get my money at the end of the job if the deck doesn't look great. It can look black on app, and dry to the lightest gold you've ever seen. Very odd. As I understand, it has something to do with the copper reacting and turning very dark until it cures.

double post

Hahaha, I thought ud like!!:D Thanks, but I hate to do that. If I were truly testing for potential use, I'd do it. But I've used the product before. Maybe one of you guys can sent me a gal or two. Or maybe Plainpainter will let loose of his bulging wallet and just buy/send me a couple gal. This is brand new wood, Rick. So what do you suggest? Yeah, I'm going to do it. Will be fun. One thing though---you said come back the next day. I want to make this an "in the field" experiment. Do you come back a 2nd time to stain? Or do you do two coats on the spot?

Every subdivision I've seen in The D has privacy fencing for all homes. And 95% look like garbage. Grey wood would look better. These are horrid stain jobs on dirty wood.

Adrian, Do you still deal with Shane? If so, please ask him to get in touch with me. I'm not sure about the brother thing. But the products--with the exception of the oil--aren't that similar. One has copper, one has zinc. One has spirits, the other doesn't. One gets 150 square feet per gallon, the other gets 150 square inches per gallon (JUST KIDDING!!!!:D) If I were starting with ALL NEW DECKS/FENCES, I'd be tempted to use RS. Truly, RS is about the best distributor I've ever worked with.

So is everyone up for a Baker/TWP shootout versus Readyseal??? :) Anyone have a gal or two of RS they can send me? Prob would want dark red or med red. For Bakers/TWP I'll either use the SuperCedar or the TWP Rustic. Sound like a plan, Rick? Rick, tell me the exact prep standard and app standard you want me to use on the RS half. It will be new treated wood, aged about 2-4 weeks. Let me know the EXACT app standard you want me to follow. Will have to be applied by either brush or roll...can't spray. Need to know: Heaviness of coat. Time between coats. Wipe off? Back brush? Basically, tell me the most perfect way you want me to do it, and that's what I'll do. For the TWP side, I'll apply wet-on-wet coats within 10min of app, back-brushed. Anyone have any other parameters they want me to follow? Keep in mind, this is a deck with three sides of rails. Do you want the RS half nearer the wall, or nearer the exterior rails? The deck gets 100% sun all day, no coverage anywhere near it. Rick, as the RS ambassador, I'll follow any suggestions you may have.

That last pic is the exact reason I can't use RS anymore. Clients would come out and offer a slight smile and dryly say, "oh. Great. Looks nice." The appearance is just too drab. In Rick's pic, a few of the vertical highlights look decent. But look at the steps. If that had been stained with TWP, it would be vibrant. No idea on A/C, not much experience with it.

JamieP, Great posts........thats called market research, and I bet you will be successful based on the fact that you are going about things the right way. What Ken said about the new growth vs. old growth is a great point. New fences warp and buckle like crazy. I built a new one two years ago, and immediately stained with a penetrating oil. It is cedar, but all of the planks dried out straight, no warping, etc. I believe the key to new decks/fences would be an immediate treatment. I know that treatment won't last as long as it won't penetrate as deeply, but I think it is imperative to slow down the drying process of the new wood. If you can slow that process, I think you can keep the wood reasonably straight and square.

Guys, if I read correctly, his problem is that he is getting mold on the INSIDE. Rob, you've got construction problems. No sealer, etc. can overcome that. Simply, eliminate the water/moisture, eliminate the fungi. Since it is built around the tree, it is going to be difficult to get a water seal at the tree perimeter.