JFife

This is a great question. Rick, great move----as you said, I'd want someone to treat my mother the same way. But it seems there would be some approach that would let you expose the discount, while still offering it. The obvious reason being that she tells her child or grandchild, or next-door neighbor that, "I got my deck refinished for only $500!!" And you've set a price expectation for everyone else. Again, this is certainly not critical of the deal you offered. But can we brainstorm and come up with a way to show the discount, not make it seem like a handout, but keep the HO from "referring" you as a guy with low prices? For instance, I'll offer some substantial discounts for people to schedule their work when WE want to schedule it. As in Dec, Jan, Feb. Perhaps this is a way to give deserving people a better price---yet not position yourself as a guy that doesn't charge very much. Thoughts?

Rick, Is it just that small amount of verticals that is stained? Didn't look like much else was stained. Also, IMO, this doesn't look like Log And Siding. Okay, re-read, was that L&S on the floor? To me, I'd just sand all of this. Pull out a grinder and go to town. More labor, but you could grind, sand, and stain in one day.

I'm with BNR, we never mask floors. Spraying with airless. I've always said, brushing is by far the sloppiest way to stain IMO. Those giant drops don't blend easily. If brushing, I'd def use a dropcloth under the rails. TN: I saw the brush-in line as well....in the future with Bakers/TWP, if you get an area like that, just scrub it down with some thinner/spirits. If you ever get shiny spots, scrub across them, or scuff-walk across them. Anything that will rub that surface sheen off.

Ronnie---- For the most part, I always like your sales gimmicks. This one seems scummy to me. I'd be livid if someone came to my place of business and stencil'd something without me knowing it. Just seems like graffiti to me. Where does it stop? I'm sure someone could come up with a paint that washes off with rain.....would you paint a sidewalk or bridge? Don't get me wrong, I love outside-the-box guerilla marketing. But this seems undignified.

Man, you'd have to be seriously sadistic to live anywhere near the everglades!! I've heard there are grizzly bears in the everglades....any of you FL roof rats know if that is true or not?

Good evening, I want to apologize to all in the membership for harboring negativity and making derogatory statements in reference to BethnRod. I am not only guilty of saying regretful things, but I'm also guilty of supporting the negative statements of others. For this, I apologize and humbly ask for forgiveness. The disagreements happened over two years ago, and today I saw a post on TGS I wanted to respond to---yet didn't, due to my harboring of ill-feelings towards board ownership. Thankfully, my conscience asked me to re-evaluate why this was, and I realized I barely even remembered why I was holding a grudge. Anyways, I apologize for my actions and offer my best wishes to BNR and their forum, Sincerely, JON

Nice work, Mike! That looks perfect IMO. I'd love to see what it looks like it two weeks when it has cured a bit.

SDF--yes PTL--no IMO, Sansin is very tough to work with. If they could do something to make their product a little more reasonable to use, they'd have a goldmine. One of the best things about Sansin is that as it fails, it just kinda starts turning lighter in color, as opposed to darker like most other products. What is difficult, is that the product is made to totally penetrate. Well, that is very hard to get with it. Prep must be crazy good, temps perfect, no sun, etc. I'm sure it is a good product, but it isn't compatable with a guy that is trying to make money.

Sup Los! Hope all is smoothing out in your life.

Beth---I haven't tried Flood.....oh wait, yeah we did, they send 4gal a year or two ago, called "Supreme" I believe. Guys used it this fall, said it was okay. Went on like mud by dried nice. I HATE a product that goes on one way and then changes appearance. Never know what you are getting in to. But if Captain ThankYou swears by it, I may give it a shot again. But it's oil, yeah? I do love thick products....spray so much better.

All products have their flaws, Chucky. Some cause you to have diagonal lines on your deck, some burn your truck to the ground:D j/k The waterbornes have their problems. But I'd rather deal with a tough app then have to deal with the mess of oil. Nothing is perfect. If RS looked halfway decent, it would be the magic product. But to my eyes, it isn't very attractive. Alas, RS is the perfect product, except for two things: 1) unattractive, and 2) the whole 12% thing. My waterbornes get A's on those two things. However, app requires more diligence. Who cares, we are supposed to be pros, right? If we can't handle applying a flashy deck stain, we belong digging ditches or something. Grand scheme, not that big of a deal. BTW, the issues on my deck---it was stained by two 16yr old kids, first time doing it. My guys that have used DEFY absolutely love it.

Yep, U2 "LN" is gone. Replaced with "wheat". I'll try and post pic. What did you dislike so much w/ Endure?

None of them!!!:D Seriously, just not real user friendly. But I think DEFY's are the best and most oil-like in behavior and appearance. I've had DEFY Epoxy on my deck for three months now and, well, I've seen worse. Still looks good, VERY repellent. Sooooo flashy though. Check this out---guys stained it around 6pm w/ evening sun coming in one side....prob 80deg temps. WHERE THE SUN SHINED THROUGH MY SPINDLES, the shadows (from spindles) allowed stain to penetrate deeper, and where the sun hit straight on the deck, it is flashed higher to the surface! So I can look at my deck and see diagonal lines about 4" apart where the stain looks different due to the different penetration rate. By far, the worst thing about the waterbornes is the flash. And we use Pchink's deck stain occasionally.....more similar to their wall stain, hides well. Re: DEFY---ScottOPW said he thought DEFY Hardwoods was easiest to work with. Sidenote: If your Pchink salesman tells you that "wheat" is an identical replacement to "light natural", run for the hills! It isn't even close. We are doing a house right now w/ wheat....and luckily HO likes it. But nothing like LN.

But you take a green tea supplement, so everything balances out:D

Rick probably "Petry-fied" his liver years ago, I'm glad I never got into alcohol....my little experience made me know that it was a power I'd have difficulty controlling, so I moved on without it before I was in too deep. Hey Rick, you ever watch that TV show "MadMen?" It is dry but really good....Madison Avenue ad-men in the early 60's. It is awesome---all day long at the office they have a cig in one hand, and a stiff drink in the other.:) Beth---I tied AC last year....seemed like a good oil. But where I am, TWP is local w/ no shipping, and works good enough. However, our policy is to never use oils again, unless it is maintenance or cust demands it. To many things I don't like about it, and I'd rather fight the uphill battle with the waterbornes. It is great---nobody is nasty all the time, vehicles are clean, storage is clean and odor-free, no fire hazards, etc etc etc.

That is why I said "if worked out". A decent deck stain applied to wet wood without acting like a waterborne=big payday for someone. I think RUss got close, but certainly no cigar.

Yeah, but I'm more specifically referring to what *these* guys do....basically decks (chucky, Ricky). Like you said, you do vinyl, etc....but even on your wood, you do interiors, rot, and lots of verticals.....and it is much easier to deal with rain challenges on a home vs. a deck. Decks are a tough game. Russ was really onto something with WTW, if it would have worked out as planned, he'd probably be a millionaire by now...either through sales or selling to Cabot et al.

I think Chucky is about 15 or 16, or as I like to say, "Jailbait." I think Dan makes a good point. Rick and Chucky sell specialty, but my guess is that neither of you rely on this for 100% of your income ( I *think* Rick is retired, and Chucky is a student). Do you guys think you could get by if this biz was necessary to support yourself and family? It would be tough. In fact, I'd be interested to see if there is anyone that makes a solid living doing nothing by straight woodcare (clean and stain). I venture to guess most supplement it with something......but IMO, deckcare would be the ultimate parttime job. But too many negative variables that would make it impossible to do as your only source of FT employment. Obviously, unless you can live on a very low salary, which some can, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

Hahahaha, that is funny-----I'm sure he'll survive. He can choose to forgive and forget on his own terms and timeline---or not---up to him.

I agree on the transoxides. Rick---look at it like this: you love your chevy, but you've never driven a ferrari. Obama builds a fine car, but once you experience something better, you can see the flaws and difference in standards in the chevy. I'm sure you and your customers are thrilled with what they get---and they always will be, until they see something else. Wanna experience this first-hand? On your next bid, take out a sample board this is prepped perfectly and stained with Sikkens Cetol butternut. Then pull out your sample board with RS on it, and say, "but this is our preference." At that point, you can tell them all you want about no peeling, easy maintenance, etc.....but you'll never be able to unsell that pic in their head of the Sikkens sample board. You may think RS/WTW, etc looks better....but you'll be a minority, I assure you. A high-quality film building product simply looks better. No doubt, they've got their challenges. But a waterborne with clay pigment looks stunning. The oilbases with copper/clay pigments look clean, bright, and vibrant. Side-by-side to a non-drying oil w/ trans, it will simply look better to most who have eyes. I love everything about RS---one of the best vendors I've EVER dealt with. I have probably used 1000-1500 gal or so over several years, without a single complaint about their company. Great app. If done right, can be durable. But at the end of the day, I couldn't deliver a stunning result. I was consistently delivering a "B-". ....Had many other benefits to the customer, but I never dropped a jaw. In our biz, that is an absolute necessity IMO. Gotta break jaws. And the drab oily look with dirty pigment just doesn't do it for me.

Ron, I will find it very hard to believe that you have ever offended anyone:D. Take down the rfp lists of your "enemies", you'll feel better---and be a better man for doing it. Life is too short for that much negativity and vindictiveness......bad for the spirit, bad for the health.

Chucky, Prob depends on the stain. We spray on, let sit for 5min of so, then backbrush. The brushing evens out the coat so that the entire surface looks evenly wet.....which is what we want. At that point it will cure out evenly. When we backbrush, we don't "pull off" any stain. Just move it from the high spots to the low spots.

Chucky---we vigorously backbrush. We buy our brushes at a place called MBS, owned by Omaha Tools. Our 4" brushes are around $1.15 each, and we go through about 300-400 a year. Waaaay cheaper to throw away than to clean. We backbrush vigorously enough that within 2-4hrs, the brush looks like it got stuck under a lawnmower.

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