JFife

Thanks Ryan, If one wanted to pursue this, would you have a starting point in mind?? Also, I wonder how big of a pain this would be......best i remember, I filled out a piece of paper and was approved in minutes....granted, they probably do that 30 times a day, as opposed to 30 times a year.

How do you avoid over-application Beth?? That is my issue with the low pressure--too much product coming out. Regarding 2800psi.....personally, i'd do that as opposed to low pressure, just my preference. As you said, might have so issues with it drying too fast if hot and sunny....ever use much waterbase product?? Talk about drying fast when spraying!! High psi with that, and it'll be dry before it hits the wood. I spray SRD all the time with a 209 tip, pressure about half-way around (don't know how much that is), works fine for me. Problem I'd have w/ your protocol, is the stain getting on the floor when spraying the rails, and SRD dries beyond re-coatability within minutes, so I assume you guys cover up the floor when spraying rails?? When you say HVLP, are you referring to a shurflo system, or a true HVLP power setup, like you'd use for automotive painting?? I can see how that would be superior to airless, but I'd think time consuming. What about it??

Very cool Newlook, do you sub all of those trades, or are you a jack of all trades?? Is there money in the concrete stamping?? I've heard that is serious $. Regarding airless, don't let your desire to look cool and buy fun toys force you to spend 1,2 or 3K on an airless setup you don't need. Me?? I have $300 Wagner, 7/8hp, .6gpm machines, work fine, and you need nothing else. You'll probably only use it 10hrs a week throughout the year, so there is no need to buy a big hog. Keep them clean, and they'll last forever (almost). I NEVER use a shurflo to stain with, and I cannot see how you guys can either, but hey, whatever works. For me, they are a clean-up nightmare. I've used them for RS with success, but cannot imagine using one for a heavier stain, like SRD or something. I use an airless for everything, unless I am brushing. What Beth says regarding atomization, i've had no issues with. Use at a lower psi, and I've noticed no difference in durability of a brushed vs. sprayed deck. I've found that if staining with say, SRD, a wet-on-wet of doing 5 boards, back-brushing, and misting again keeps from the knot areas appearing lighter, and creates an even finish. SRD is still a pain in my opinion though. Think about this--I bought a used airless from Sunbrite once......Cambell Hausfeld, probably a $300 sprayer. Just don't think it pays to buy a Rolls Royce sprayer for as little as we use them, compared to a painter. Spend the extra money on tips (the right tip makes all the difference) and different extension poles (also a life-saver). Anyone has tip Q's let me know, the one thing I feel i've got down to a science.

....thanks for clearing up the 'edit' issue, though I am not sure what happened it appears all is well and good in the world of wood. Sorry I didn't take your cue to delete my post Beth, didn't know you were implying that.......I'll take responsibility for my off-color sense of humor, as I am used to being the only person that thinks I am funny:) Regarding the cheap 5/4 boards, I don't see the 2x6 as much better, the problem I see with them is that they "chunk" out pieces of wood in the floor, kinda following the grain lines. Do make for a more solid and better looking deck, and that is what I use on the decks I build/re-build. SYP, the funny thing is that it is extremely strong, far stronger that any other cedars or spruce or most other pines, and has a good R-value as far as wood goes, but just has the tendacy to twist and warp badly, and has the strange rot problems. I was just harrassing the folks in GA about their responsibility for the poor wood.....I just got done being the expert witness (please no snickers or laughs) in a court case in KC where a log home had been sold in '02, and now had about 300' feet of log rot, and the new homeowner wanted the prior homeowner to be held responsible, and I worked on behalf of the prior homeowner. The home was only about 12 yrs old and was made of standing dead from Montana. The homeowner had done all of the mainenance at the intervals the manu. stated, using Sikkens Cetol as the finish. He repaired significant damage during his tenure at the home, sold it, and the house continued to have rot problems. Well, the plaintiff had the President of a home inspection company come out and give his opinion on the house, and he found that the defendant was guilty of not doing necessary maintenance, thus causing the logs to crack and check (as though that is not normal) and causing the log rot. Needless to say, he was in the fetal position sucking his thumb when I finished my report. Fact is, these things would not be issues if the manufacturers would just be up-front and let people know that their house will need significant maintenance, and they should plan on the house costing about 30% more, minimum, than a stick house so that the home can be built in a way to avoid these problems. Think that'll happen?? Probably about the same time I learn to be funny:)

c'mon Beth, you deleted a post I did not see, and was most likely posed to me. You should know, I, of all people, like open posting. Now, I have the feeling something just awful was said towards me, and it probably was not the case at all, just some harmless bantering from Ms. Pam. I say deletion should be saved for death threats or verbal abuse or obnoxious salesmen......not guys that like to aggravate one another. .......For me, it is just looking for ANY discussion more exciting than the 75th newbie of the year asking how much to charge for a deck or complaining because they don't close 100% of their estimates. But hey, your rules and I'll follow, I'm back to being the choir boy!!

Beth, .....can't add much, only second-hand info and speculation, as I am not a Forestry/Agri expert. I do know that I have to explain to people daily why it is necessary to seal/stain/maintain their log home, and often get the argument that, "the log house down the road is 200 yrs. old and has never had anything done to it, and you are telling my that my five yr. old house will be rotting in five more years if I don't pay you to maintain it"?? SO TIRED of answering that, and of the people not believing me and thinking it is a sales pitch. I speak only from experience and not scientific data, but new wood is bad, especially the SYP. I don't know if it is the inability to repel insects, or the porousness of the wood that allows it to absorb water like a straw (as opposed to dense-grained old-growth wood), but it rots badly. Now, a smart designer/builder can overcome these characteristics by designing the house so that it is better protected from the weather, but......that usually costs more money, and when a kit manufacturer is trying to convince a mark that they can build their log house for close to what a stick house costs, they don't/won't allow for extra $. ......So, the house gets designed like a stick house with 12" overhangs, maybe pass on the gutters, log ends sticking out, and before long the wood rots. And of course, the salesman told them that a log house doesn't require much maintenance, not a big worry (anything to close the deal) and you have a clueless homeowner asking me the tough questions, and I try and re-wire their thinking with the truth, and they feel screwed by everyone. But, the crappy logs do leave open a good market for rot repairs. Another thing----it can often (in the case of a deck) come down to a deck-to-deck issue, and even a board-to-board issue. Ever notice two decks side by side, same age, never treated, same exposure, and one has cracking, warping boards and the other is pretty solid and straight?? Or even that some boards on a deck may be perfect, while others are aweful?? I assume that comes down to where they where cut off of the tree, and how close they are to heartwood. Beth, if you want more info on the new-growth wood, the log sites are loaded with it. It is a huge issue, because of the trouble everyone has with SYP. It doesn't help when the logs are stacked at about 40% moisture, I literally have had logs 4' long, 8" diameter that I can barely lift they are so wet. But hey, in the SE it is all about doing it as cheap as possible, and these companies spit out thousands of these homes a year. Again, has it's bad points, but can be good for biz too.

Why is it "tired" to not want to destroy more trees when there are other solutions?? And we can personally thank you're home state for the abundance of crap SYP that rots out within about ten years unless it is totally sealed off from any type of weather changes. Every log builder/manufacturer in the SE builds with this stuff because it is cheap, when for a few extra dollars they could get standing dead from out west. And this lovely young-growth SYP is to thank for my deck in it's warpedness, cracks, boards literally splitting in half shape that it is in. And don't tell me it needs the natural oils replinished with Readyseal. Point is, why be wasteful with a resource when we have other options?? I'm not a radical--I know vegans who are planning to build their homes out of used tires to prevent an environmental impact of any kind. I consider that extreme, but at least they are conscious of trying to improve the environment we live in. Just not a fan of wasteful actions, when there are options.

.....not to mention, the number of downed trees it takes to replace a deck floor.......we are supposed to be in wood preservation, not wood destruction......I always make an environmental argument whenever people start telling me how they can replace wood for X amount and so on.......

Ryan, Should be easy to find local, check a lumber yard (not hd or lowes), maybe even 84 Lumber. If you want a premium look, you could stain it with 2 coats of Sikkens DEK.

Nice Rick!! The blue color is cool, you could scare customers and tell them it is radioactive. You are right, don't expect much the way you have the Removall brushed on there. Brushing it is actually counter-productive until it has started working. You'd be better off testing it by just pouring out a big glob of it. BTN does brush better. Let us know tomorrow what the results are!

Many companies advertise that you can use their cleaners to "spray on, watch the dirt dissolve before your eyes, and rinse off!". The fine print says you have to lightly scrub the surface after applying the chem. So do that for her. Or, explain that the pressure you'll use will be about as powerful as putting your thumb over the garden hose. Just bid a little higher if you have to scrub,

good point Dale, often felt the same way. Only thing keeps me coming back to use percarbs is the safety issue, not as nasty. I often feel it doesn't do an adaquate job unless it is on lightly-neglected wood, not on the heavy, dark green and black decks. I think naoh at 1 or 2 oz would be fine for a cleaner in that amount.

Ken, Osborne Brush=buffing bliss Hess Log Home Supply in PA would have them, dont have a web address but would be an easy search. You guys try these, you'll never look back. Goes on the Makita 9227C or similar buffer. I saw Harbor Freight has a 7" buffer on sale for 29.99. Probably work fine, no more than guys like us use one of these tools. Just make sure and get the SQUARE bristles.....if you find prices on these brushes ranging from $65-$85, the lower price is for ROUND bristles, less abrasive. The person selling them to you may have no idea about the difference, and for that reason, get them from one of the first two places I linked to.

reed, www.aloghomestore.com www.loghomecenter.com www.permachink.com I hate dealing with pchink, so I'd try the first two. Log Home Center is in Indy, and comes one-day to STL. They are nice guys and very helpful. Make sure to get the 6" brush with the SQUARE bristles. Check the first company though, they may have the best prices. pchink as a last resort. Probably cost around $75, but you could probably use it on 10 decks, depending how much floor use it gets. What do you think of the "gun brush" theory?? Does that make sense to you, and seem like it would perform better??

Ken, did you charge for it, or are you throwing this in due to the amount it fuzzed up?? When i did mainly decks, all were PT, and I couldn't advise a customer to spend 2K with me when she could get a new deck for 5K, so I kinda tailored the job to the individual deck. I did buff when we did redwood, which was about 1 out of 10 jobs. Reed, have you not tried an Osborne Brush yet?? They'll do a far superior job compared to pads, and are cheaper, and don't leave the little black chunks everywhere. I'd at least try one, if you don't like it I'll buy it back from you. They help to get the fuzz out of the grain where a flat pad won't get to. Someone should create something that buffs WITH the grain, as opposed to swirling against it. It would spin vertically like a yard edger, and could be mounted in that fashion so you could push it from behind. Actually, it wouldn't be that hard to create something like that which would attach to a drill (imagine a gun-cleaning brush, but larger, coming out of the chuck.) Hey, maybe I'll make one and get rich like the guy that created the xjet!

Personally, I try and make things to appear to be as many sf as possible. I am not suggesting to lie about the area......but, when they see the estimate, i'd rather them think I am charging $1.00 per sf for 2000 sf of deck, than for them to think I am charging $2.00 for 1000 sf of wood. So i'd suggest getting a formula to include posts, trellis, arbors, rails, etc. as a sf price. Why you ask?? Because you may put on one heck of a sales presentation, and they may want to hire you, but don't know if your price is in-line with what others charge. So they call Company X and ask, "what do you charge to restore a deck with 2000sf of wood surface?? Most likely their price will be over $1.00 pr ft, and now you not only sold them good, they feel like they are getting a good deal. I've found customers do this, even when they want to hire you, they make calls (not necessarily appointments) and screen your price. That is why you have customers asking you, "how many sf is my deck", or "what do you charge per sf." They are wanting to CALL for some estimates, rather than have to do so many in person.

Looks great!! Photocopy several of the articles and give it with every estimate. I think you're correct, phone is going to blow up!

Could a knowledgable biz owner from Florida please call me either today or tomorrow?? Maybe between hotdogs and hamburgers or something. I called Mike Williamson but his phone was off, and I need some advice quickly (like before Monday night) regarding your laws applying to out-of-state contractors and licensing within the state. My number is right now is: 417-576-5915, it won't take long, and I can call you back if you don't have free weekends or nationwide. Thanks,

thanks to Washaway, He helped me out and got me what I needed, so I am set. Thanks

Oh, and like i said, my opinion is that a thin misting, followed by a heavy layer (needs to be as thick as whatever you are removing) does the trick, the initial thin layer to "break" the surface is the trick.

I strive to make dreams come true:) All you've said is correct (if you call biowash they'll confim the "503" part, and double-check me so you get the right number.....all of the products are like 502, 503,504, etc) Regarding getting off all the product, it WILL take of anything on the SURFACE. It is notproductive for removing something that has penetrated.....it wouldn't remove Readyseal or TWP for example. Take off paint like a dream or Sikkens or acrylic. But if you took off an acrylic deck stain, you'd possibly have to lightly (and quickly) re-wash with naoh to remove penetrated areas. I am sure you know this, it'll be just like btn, and expect nothing else, except thinner and works faster. jon

Been around for years under different names. Don't know anything good about them, similar to other waterbases on the market in my opinion.

Rick, That sprayer will be fine, btn works well also, but is thicker to spray (in comes the sprayer power by a 454c.i. big block). Do you have ICI Delux stores up there?? They sell HydroStrip 503, a private label of Removall 310. They priced to me for around $40, but I ended up getting it for about $32 per 5'er. Like I said, the benefit is that you can get the Removall through a smaller sprayer. I don't remove filters, but it wouldn't hurt. Also, use a new hose and use it for nothing but Removall---you know the drill i am sure. I spray with a .517 with good results. If you are removing a "slick" product--say some new Sikkens from a wall or Poly or something else, I've had good results misting a light coat, let it scuff the surface for you so the stripper will hold, and then lay it on. If you try and spray a heavy coat on some vertical poly.....well, it will be an expensive lesson:) Also, performance is significantly improved if you brush the area once the stripper has began working, and then mist another light coat, the easier you can make it for the stripper to hit bare wood, the better.

There are many 'breathable' latex acrylics used on log homes, but they are not for deck use. Work great on verticals, but are either too soft for floors or peel. i guess everyone is trying to stay ahead of the voc laws, I've been reading some screwy stuff about all of that---some chems aren't held to a voc standard--acetone, methyl chloride, etc. Suppose it is from lobbyist action. The first person that finds a good waterbase for decks that is easily recoated and strippable in most applications will be rollin'. Anyone ever tried DEFY on a deck?? I've been meaning to test it.

Rick, Removall 310 will go through a small sprayer, don't worry. I've used through 5/8hp, .41gpm no problem.