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814jeffw

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Posts posted by 814jeffw

  1. Posted · Report reply

    A stronger butyl based mix applied evenly will (should) melt the oxidation off fairly easily. The word melt sounds like a bad word in this business. Do small sections while it's warm out. Be careful not getting the stronger mix on any painted aluminum window trim. After your done apply a wax of some kind to finish the evening out. I read on here somewhere that the wax was used before removing the oxidation, that may work also, but I don't know,...never tried it that way.

    Jeff

  2. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    He can't because his whole shtick is brush washing and has trapped himself by telling all his customers that brush washing is better and THAT is why they should use HIM instead of his competition. I would guess his very creditability would be at stake with his base. I assume he is established with a client base and knows other start ups without the base can't afford to hire help or charge enough to make it worth their while to do it That way giving him the advantage. Its his business model.

    Again Jeff I'm not meaning to sound ugly, I get what your intentions for the thread are and I really enjoy your post I do but it is what it is, it's negatively marketing your competition not doing a better job. Not slamming your methods at all we all tell our customers "OUR company, experience, hot water, chems or methods, hey look at my big fancy rig I gotta be better than the next guy and thats why you should use me." But it is what it is and that doesn't mean its better for any body but you. But it works for you and thats the name of the game so kudos. But I can't sit here and let someone give me advice about how to do a better job,,start brushing,,like I'm not doing as good a job. For the purpose of discrediting the way I do it as a matter of practice. All customers pay us to clean the surface period. If you need to brush a spot brush it but I don't have to stand there for hours making the money I charge tangible to the customer. Those are "one on one customers" that I try to make happy but I'm not going to cut my price which effectively doubling my time and effort would do. Like PlainPainter asked would you do it MY WAY for half price? I'm sure your anwser is NO just like would I do it YOUR WAY for half price,,,NO.

    Muduck, I don't perceive your view as "ugly",...but anyhow, if you go back and read some of my first postings in this thread you will see I didn't start this topic saying my way is a better method,...in fact I've said it a few times through this discussion that it's not about methods directly,...the point here is that for ME and my work zone brush washing has kept me in business and it raised the bar in MY zone,..simply because customers perceive brushing to be a better job,...it keeps me busy and the other guys here coming and going. Everyone do it how they please, I was just offering up personal experience for anyone interested, not intending to get an argument going. There may be someone actually interested in changing their game plan, because this can be a tough business and you have to give the customer a reason to call you,....and I do not care about the other guy one single bit, if I take his work because I have the customer believing my service is "better" than theirs,.... well then good, mission accomplished. I could see an argument here if my method would be sacrificing the quality but it's not lowering the quality,... it's all about SELLING!! And I really don't have to "sell" brushing around here any longer people just expect it now and they know who to call!! I haven't had a discussion with a customer comparing the two methods for a very long time now.

    Jeff

  3. Posted · Report reply

    sorry for not reading all the posts but I wanted to commend you for doing things your way. I have been taken to task many times on this site for washing and staining in 1 day and still using a extension wand. I appreciate your alternative marketing tactics. As long as you get the results you and your customer want who is to say anything but nice work! My business model is intact and I also use brushes in my house wash. I continue to wash and stain in a day and I belive in my process. I don't like too much pressure near any windows and simply applying chems isn't enough for my taste. I'm always open to new ideas in this business and thats 1/2 the fun of this message board. As klong as I can get great results and maintain repeat customers that put me to sleep with a smile.

    That's right Jeff, doing what you're comfortable with is what's really important here. Don't ever allow the crowd to sway your thinking, as everyone's market can be different. I changed the market in my zone by brush washing, now that's what customers seem to expect. That's what this thread is about, separating yourself from the crowd.

    Jeff

  4. Posted · Report reply

    I had a lady ask me on the job the other day since I scrubbed the lower half could I scrub the upper half...I pulled out my extension wand and put a medium bristle on and went at it...she was amazed how clean and how fast I got it all done with just my brush and spray and rinse down the chemicals. I didnt even have the last hose wound up when her neighbor came over and asked for the same thing. They are tri levels, half brick and half vinyl with alot of nice foliage surrounding the whole house. Your right it didnt take that long and I felt l really deserved those compliments. Keep rolling with the idea and keep us up on what it will be called.

    VR

    Bil

    Hi Bil, good to hear. It is simply called putting your business on a different level by offering an alternate method than the crowd around you. Getting people talking is what will get you work, and getting out of the "norm" can do that.

    Jeff

  6. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    Well put Jeff.... we started out brushing houses as you do. Our goal was to be better than anyone and stand out in the area. FIVE YEARS AGO YESTERDAY we did our first house using that method and the sad part about it is that five years ago today we finished washing the same house... It took us 12 hours.

    We took a different approach to public perception. We had KBK do our logo, then a website, then professional business cards (we ditched the home made ones), then full colored property cleaning brochures,,, we quickly found out that all of the above was the ticket to getting the edge on others. We have added a wood restoration brochure and lettered all vehicles and trailers.

    We do work hard to give excellent results, this plays a large part in returning customers.... but the multidimensional marketing program is what actually keeps the phone ringing.

    Man Matt, I remember when I first started this business,... I have to say my story is similar to yours on the brushing experience. It was taking all day along with alot of frustration, but the people I was working for really liked the different approach I was taking and felt obligated from that point on to "deliver". But I knew I'd never survive this business if I continued on the path I was on when I began in 1996. To make a long story short..... I've since then made brushing easy, (mostly due to the proper chemical), efficient application and proper brushes,... I was able cut the time waaaaaay back and the level of frustration has been knocked way back as well . We all have our frustrating days though. I may also add that I didn't have the internet to refer to for learning tricks, techniques and chemicals. Learning chemicals is key in this business.

    I like the idea of better quality cards and other literature, That seems to reiterate my stand on brush washing; You can get away with cheaper cards and brochures but the customers like to see what they perceive as better quality, and maybe more professional. Seems to coincide with my view on brush washing and selling. It's all about getting out of the crowd and giving the customer a reason to call YOU, instead of the other guy(s).

    Jeff

  7. Posted · Report reply

    Man - would I love to be the only game in town. The wars rage on....same thing in painting - folks read up on the internet that 'sprayed' homes aren't as good as 'brushed' homes for exterior painting. Even if you explain to them that you 'backbrush' - they don't care, they want brushed! Jeff - couldn't you sneak in a few homes downstreaming? And see if you like it? Only game in town, right? What if you leave a property and it's just as clean? But then again that may open the doors to competitors and that lowballing starts a rollin' - man it's tough in business sometimes!

    I've set a presidense Dan, and I don't mind living with it. Others in this business are struggling, I'm glad to be moving forward. Selling what the customers are buying is what it's all about.

    Jeff

  8. Posted · Report reply

    we have brush and brushless car washes in my town. i have been to both and i cannot tell the difference between the two. but i guess the debate here is not whether it cleans better but what sets you apart from your competition. i am not a brusher unless the situation arises as i prefer to let the chemicals do the work for me.

    rando

    The chemicals do the work for me to, brushing just finishes it up real nice and the customers love it!!

    Jeff

  9. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    Yea, I see where you guys are coming from, but I really don't have to "bid" on work anymore, there isn't anyone else to call other than me around here, I just give a cost and they say "come do it" and that is what I'm trying to get across. I don't even have to advertise brush washing, people here just expect it now, and I'm the only game in town. And that IS raising the bar not lowering it,... when you've shoved every other business out the door and you're the only guy worth calling!! And getting the edge is what it's all about.

    Jeff

  10. Posted · Report reply

    Because I came from the window cleaning side of the business . I have always bushed around the windows frame and the glass. The results are far superior.

    Yea James, I believe this is maybe why customer perceive it as a little better service. This is what I'm trying to say to those who may be having a difficult time picking up work, gotta' change and get out of the crowd. If you only brush around the windows, that is still raising the bar to a degree.

    Jeff

  11. Posted · Report reply

    The other thing we need to look at here is what rates are being charged. I've seen some rates down in Florida that are ridiculous, Like $75.00 or $100.00 for a ranch home. Yea, I wouldn't brush for that price, But my market allows me to charge $200.00 plus for the same house. Two story homes bring me $300.00-$1,000.00. I would rather make more money by doing more work, this is what sets my work apart from all of the local fellas. If it doesn't suit your particular business plan then this thread isn't for you.

    Jeff

  12. Posted · Report reply

    I lean a brush up against a home - because sometimes some spots you can apply chems 5-6 times and they still don't budge! Where as 1-2 coats and a little elbow grease gets things going.

    Jeff - I don't mean to attack you in any of my posts - I just want you to know this.

    That's ok Dan, you're not the one I'm referring to who said they lean a brush against the house for the customer to see. It was in a post here somewhere the other day, but it wasn't you.

    Jeff

  13. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    Yea Dan, I have a great customer base, because of brushing,...if I start doing what they see as less quality work, they will maybe look at my business a little different. Not really interested in pulling the rug out from loyal customers. They like them cleaned the way I do it.... period. It takes me approximately 3-4 hours average on a two story house, so keeping up isn't hard. Plus I get roofs, decks and concrete cleaning.

    Jeff

  14. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    Anything posted on a public forum IS debatable, sorry. If you don't want debate then don't post. It's what makes the forums so valuable or at least it used to.

    Jeff, I was going to let this go because I don't have the time anymore to argue with guys who don't listen anyway. But I couldn't disagree more with your statement, "brushing will get you more work." Having your caveman methods and your own opinion is cool, but don't make bold untrue statements like this on a public forum, please.

    Larry makes an excellent point with the lawn mowing example. I hope that makes sense to you. Working harder is not good business practice and it won't bring you more work. Just being out there working brings you more work. Just being in business year after year brings you more business. Giving a good end result to your customers will bring you more work. It doesn't matter HOW you do it, and IMO your methods are holding you back.

    How could you even handle more work if your methods are so slow. You are working harder than you need to. Put one of your houses next to one of mine and they are both dramatic and excellent results. A house can only get so clean. Some days we've done 3 house washes and maybe even a roof or driveway thrown in there. All excellent results and extremely pleased clients.

    Think about this; you are at one location all day working your ass off and a curious neighbor comes over and asks for an estimate or business card. The homeowner may also be happy with the end results and may refer you, great.

    Now I'm at 3 different locations because I use efficient methods (right chemicals, big GPM unit, efficient rig set up, and so on). I hand out 3 times as many business cards, get 3 times the referrals, and gain 3 new loyal customers. That is priceless my friend, do that every day and your business would grow at a much faster rate, guaranteed.

    It isn't rocket science, ever heard the expression work smarter not harder. That doesn't mean you're lazy or cutting corners, it means you have streamlined your methods and your business and putting more profit in your pocket. The ONLY measure of success IS profits, that's it.

    So I rebuttal your statement about brushing bringing more work with; educate yourself, invest in the right equipment, become more efficient, sell value, charge a premium, and deliver the results. That will bring you at least 3 times the work that you are experiencing now.

    Just my opinion of course, oh and my EXPERIENCE!

    This post was directed at those who don't have alot of work and are looking for options, NOT established businesses. And I'm done by 12-1 every day. And I' don't work my butt off. Your making insinuations about my work hours and effort and you have nothing to base it on. Brushing gets me more work because my customers have told me they go with me because of it. That's good enough for me. Just trying to pass it on is all, not here to argue. This is about public perception, not methods. Did you see where guys posted in here some where that they lean a brush visible to the customer so the customer thinks they're brushing.

    Jeff

  16. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    Sounds to me like you are trying to justify your pricing to the customer by telling them you are going to work harder for your $ than the next guy Jeff. If one guy is going to cut a lawn with a 52in riding mower and wants $100.00 and another is going to cut it with a 21in push mower should the guy with the push mower get $175.00 for the same job when the results are going to be the same? Better yet- Is the customer going to go with the $175.00 just because he is going to sweat more? I truely believe that people probably are probably going with you because of your selling skills, your personality and the quality of work that you can show them you do through before and after pics, website etc...Once you realize that you can sell them for the same price and do it without brushing you will be SOOO much Happier. You say you want more time to fish and to play golf? Ds a house wash and you will make the same $ and be on the golf course by noon rather than by 2:00 pm and still have a Very Happy customer. Whats the old saying? Work smarter- Not harder... Heck Jeff, We already work hard enough why add to the pain!

    First off I don't have to justify anything, I feel good about my pricing! I don't remember saying I wanted more time to fish or play golf. I don't even play golf, not sure where you read that Larry. I'm not retired. I don't mind giving some work for some pay. You are right about one thing, brushing does sell, and I am working every day, at least you got the point of this post!!. And I wouldn't be happier using an alternate method, I've been at it for 12 years Larry, I know what works. Not sure where the perception is coming from that brushing is hard.

    Jeff

  17. Posted · Report reply

    I think brushing along with a good soap will get rid of oxidation on vinyl - where as downstreaming will not. I end up brushing gutters most of the time - downstreaming didn't work there either. But for the most part - I am aiming to get rid of mildew, algae, and some atmospheric pollutants - and downstreaming works fine for that. I can get artillery fungus with 3-4 applications of cleaner and lots of brushing - downstreaming won't do that either.

    Jeff is trying to be helpful as how to get business, suggesting perhaps that brushing may be the ticket to sell. If you are hard up and don't mind spending 4-5 hours per day working - and getting 15 $400 housewashes a month - which amounts to grossing 6k for 2 work weeks - then why not? Personally I think this is a move back into the owner/operator mentality. And if you have workers - now they'll need more workers' comp - at the exterior painting rate. I spent 4 hours at a home that I only brushed one section for like 5 minutes - a real stubbon section - and I hate to think how long that would have taken brushed?

    This is right Dan, this thread is about selling, public perception and raising the bar,..... not which method is better.

    Jeff

  19. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    WOW. If that's how I had to do things to keep the phone ringing, I'd get a

    new number.

    Yes, this thinking is why I have my work zone basically to myself. Because my phone rings and the other guys aren't willing to put forth the little extra effort. This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to convey to anyone scratching for options. The other guy simply won't do it, it's an easy way to get their head above the crowd. When you start generating more house washing because of method, the other work will come as well, like roof cleaning, concrete and deck cleaning. The point is, brush washing will generate more work.

    Jeff

  20. Posted · Report reply

    I will add that in the cases where we do brush an entire house, it is for the purpose of removing oxidation from aluminum siding. We get a premium for this service which I will elude is quite higher than most will charge...but it is clean. Otherwise, a brush is used to get the stains that need agitation such as aluminum oxidation from below capped window frames and egg shots by vandals for example.

    Jeff, you may not have wanted a debate but in this world of opinions and other experiences, people will do it anyway as you can see.

    Don't worry though, your method is not status quo as most have moved on from brushing and using telescoping wands as cleaning chems have improved over the past few years. Being old fashioned is not a bad thing, it is just something most are not willing to revert to because of the demand they are trying to meet.

    Rod!~

    If the demand is there then great, no matter what the method!!

    Those in this business who are doing only one or two houses a week and doing it the same way the "other" guys in their zone do it are the businesses this post was meant for. They may want to get more detailed in their work and make their business look better to their potential customers, and it may get them more work, with just a little more effort.

    Jeff

  21. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    If it works for Jeff and he's happy with that then I say good for him. He is making money when so many today are getting "killed" with the economy being what it is.....And since Jeff made it clear this is not a debate Then I say "More Power to you Jeff" Making money is the Key and he is doing just that:lgmoneyey

    The reason I'm not gonna debate methods is because we would just go round and round, and the post would get cloudy real fast.

    Now, with that being said:

    Yes it does work for me, and it's part of my job,... and for me it's kept the competition virtually non-existent around here. What it comes down to is seeing so many fail in this business simply because they thought it was gonna be "retirement" work. That's great for me, I get plenty of work because I set the bar higher and those around me just fizzle out. It's the end of the week or month or year that matters, not how much you can make per hour. I'm dedicated to my work, I'm not trying to go real fast to get to the next one. For those who don't brush and have success, then great,...but this post is me sharing my experiences of a particular method and what it has done for me with those who may be struggling getting work,.... NOT ESTABLISHED BUSINESSES.... You either want to work or not. People who need an option though may be interested in the importance of public perception and what it can do for them. And if they're struggling and still won't raise the bar for their competitors by simply brushing then I don't think they're that interested in this business and can go back to a regular 9-5.

    Jeff

  24. Posted · Edited by 814jeffw · Report reply

    What about adding this to the "Options" for the buy? Kinda like a detail wash or something like that...

    That's not a bad idea, and I've considered it, but I built my business on doing what I do,..hard to change after 12 years,...just wouldn't feel right for me!! Brushing really isn't that hard, the cleaner does most of the work,and the phone rings and keeps the competition knocked down. But it may be something for anyone at least considering brushing to think about. At least get a feel for it. That was a good point Anthony!!

    Jeff

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