Russell Cissell

Don't forget to post your wood restoration photos. There are over $2,500.00 worth of prizes that someone has to win. It might as well be you!

We still have several smaller tint kits in stock. The delivery rate has been horrible with the tint kit. The box is small and seems to be the perfect weight for throwing. More than half of the kits that go out the door never make it to their intended delivery address. In some cased we have had to send 3 kits to the same contractor just to get one delivered successfully. I can ship out gallons of the tint. For what ever reason, they make it through OK. As Paul pointed out, 1 Gallon of pigment will tint a lot of stain. I've also been able to locate local suppliers for several contractors who called looking for tint. If you still need help, feel free to give me a call.

I have to agree wholeheartedly. Keith and KBK GraphX provide a level of service that I have never experienced before. The turn around time is impressive no doubt, but that's only half of it. The creative talent that Keith brings to the table is what really sets KBK apart. I am always blown away by how close the first draft is to what I had envisioned. When it comes to something as critical as design work, it is an unbelievable relief having someone you know you can count on. I can always count on Keith. In fact, I am counting on him right now, hopefully he doesn't spend too much time soaking in these well deserved words of praise!

Mark Wood-Tux comes in a natural "Warm Honey Gold" color. It is a semitransparent finish so the actual color will depend greatly on the color of the wood it is being applied to. Wood-Tux is easily tint-able with pigments readily available at most paint stores. Using black and transoxide red tints you can custom blend anything from a light brown to a very rich redwood color.

Matthew I agree that back brushing is more work with Wood-Tux, because you never have to back brush Ready Seal, however that is an "application" issue. Application is only one of many characteristics that make up a products ease of use. If you consider that Ready Seal usually requires more than one coat, and sometimes more than one trip back for another application Wood-Tux is a time saver. Another consideration is the amount of product used. Job for job you are clearly buying/applying more Ready Seal to achieve the desired results. You have to physically "move" all of that product, whether from the truck to your garage, from your garage to your trailer, from the trailer to the sprayer or from the sprayer to the wood, it all takes time. Scheduling is also an important consideration when it comes to ease of use. Having the ability to work with damp wood allows you to work many more days out of the year. That leads to more jobs and more money.

krpalex I would be hesitant to make a finish recommendation without knowing your selection criteria. I understand that you would like to samples of both product in real world applications. Clearly appearance is important to you, as it should be. What else are you looking for in a product? What are you offering your customer? Most products look good when they are first applied so pictures of freshly stained decks only tell part of the story. When it comes to ease of application Ready Seal is clearly the product of choice. I believe it's billed as the "Goof-Proof" finish. You will never have to worry about runs or lap marks. With wood-Tux you have to apply it like you would any oil based sealer which means back brushing to remove excess product. When it comes to cost, there is no comparison, Wood-Tux is much less expensive to use both on initial application as well as long term maintenance. With all things, there is a trade off. Ready seal is easy to apply however to get a good lasting finish requires a lot of product. If you are running a business based on staining wood, a very important consideration is ease of use. This is much different from ease of application and clearly Wood-Tux offers the greatest flexibility. In many parts of the country it is difficult to use a product that relies on a very low moisture content. Wood-Tux can be applied to both wet or dry wood. This is a huge advantage if you are trying to stay on schedule during the rainy seasons. Wood-Tux is also designed as a one coat application. That means that you can achieve optimal results/performane in just one application. Many of the seasoned users of Ready Seal say that in order to get comparable results you have to apply Ready Seal in multiple applications waiting as long as possible between coats. This is time consuming and can result in multiple trips back to the same job site. I am confident in saying that when it comes to ease of use, Wood-Tux is the more contractor friendly product. Best of Luck

Jon I really don't think you have an understanding oh how/why Wood-Tux works. For the most part the discussions on the BBS involve a comparison between drying and non drying oil based stains. One thing that is seldom discussed is the difference between Wood-Tux and other drying oil based finishes. You are making assumptions about the maintenance of the finish that are simply incorrect. If you provide regular maintenance there is no need to strip the finish and no reason the maintenance application would be splotchy. Maintenance is extremely easy. I do understand where you are coming from. With many drying oils it is difficult if not impossible to clean them after a year or two without significant loss of existing finish. That is what leads to a splotchy maintenance application. Wood-Tux is extremely high in resin and pigment solids. As a result, it can handle several years of weathering and still hold up to a good cleaning. When you maintain the Wood-Tux, all you have to do is wash the surface to be sure it is free of dirt and grime the reapply as needed. The maintenance application will blend with what's in the wood to a nice even finish. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against nondrying oil finishes. We manufacture one that is positioned more as a conditioner for old dry cedar siding. It can be used as a stand alone finish, but it is rather expensive and doesn't offer near the surface protection that our drying oil formulas achieve. The point I want to make is that both types of finishes can be easily maintained. It comes down to the quality of the individual product type. There are plenty of drying-oil finishes that would not make a good choice for a maintenance business. The same is true of non drying oils. It comes down to the product itself. There are nondrying oils out there that are nothing more than paraffinic oil (mineral seal oil) with pigment. They are marketed as wood "stains." They would offer you the same ease of application, similar coverage rates and a beautiful finish. They lack some of the other crucial ingredients (particularly biocides) that allow them to be a good maintenance finish. You chose the products you use because you know they will deliver the performance your customers expect. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy with just any nondrying oil finish. I don't expect just because someone has success with Wood-Tux they would be happy with just any drying-oil stain. It comes down to the individual product.

When you say UV sliding glass door, is there actually a film on the glass or is the glass tinted? If it is a glass surface and it was a percarbonate cleaner, i wouldn't expect the glass to be etched. You should be able to remove it with lots of water. You can try all sorts of things but lots of water is the key if it's what I am thinking. The overspray from cleaners can dry to form a scale deposit. In your case in very small spots. Once all the water evaporates they become very hard to emulsify. I have messed with all sorts of fancy surfactants to try to speed it up but in the end, water and scrubbing works as well as anything. If you do use some solvent or vinegar, be sure not to leave a film on the surface, otherwise it will dry cloudy on you. Once you have emulsified the overspray rinse really well or use several fresh paper towels. In really bad cases, you can use a razor blade to remove the bulk before you wash it. Welcome to the wood restoration game!

Jon I phrased my question wrong. On that cedar home job, how long do expect it to be before the finish will need to be maintained? How soon will you apply more stain to the wood?

Jon That close up is really nice looking. Most homeowners around here prefer a much lighter color but in my eye, that is what natural stained wood siding is supposed to look like. Nice rich natural color with plenty of grain! Working with siding is nice because the knots are at a much better angle to the sun and usually only show up on the South side of the home if at all. I've found in working with our DMC formula which is a nondrying, non-curing product like the Ready Seal, that over time the oils will migrate away from the surface allowing you to add more stain and load the pigments at the surface. I like to recommend the DMC formula for very old dry cedar siding because of it's ability to go deep into the wood replenishing it. You can actually get old curled siding to lay back down. The problem is obviously that the surface doesn't hold out as long. I would normally say to come back with Wood-Tux to seal the wood and get the lasting protection. If the wood is not extremely dry I would just apply the Wood-Tux once and be done with it. How long do you wait for the first application to soak in before you come back with the second application in order to (nearly) double the performance? After the two applications, what would you say is you final coverage per square feet on that 15 year old wood? With two applications, how long do you expect it to last? What I am trying to determine is, on old dry cedar siding, what is going to be the most cost effective approach? Thanks for your input.

Ken Those "white" spots you see on cedar have a lot to do with how light reflects/refracts at different angles because the pattern of the wood changes. The surface creates opposing angles causing a glare from certain angles. If you look at the same deck in the shade you won't have such a drastic difference. This is the same reason why one side of a herringbone pattern deck will look lighter than the other. The only way to "handle" this with your customer is to help them to understand what to expect up front. (for a deck that old, I would say you've made it look spectacular) Each product you work with will be different. The key is in providing an aesthetically pleasing finish with adequate protection for the wood. That is where products differ greatly. We all know that we are supposed to protect wood from, moisture, sun, dirt and grime, mold and mildew and so on. What you have to consider is how does the product you are using provide these protections. In the case of a nondrying oil stain, there is no binder to lock the pigment in place. The finish doesn't dry so it's doesn't really seal the wood. This type of product works by saturating the wood to occupy all of the space and blocking out moisture. Because it doesn't dry, you can continue to apply more and more product until the wood becomes completely saturated. For the most part, the pigment is going to remain close to the surface and the oils are going to dive deeper into the wood. With a non drying product, the more you apply the longer it will last. The moment you stop applying you begin to loose protection. The oils near the surface are most vulnerable because they can trap dirt, pollen and mold spores which is a real challenge for the anti-microbials. In addition rain can work to wash away the oils and pigment near the surface causing the finish to fade. Anything that is not locked to the wood will eventually be washed away. The life cycle of a non drying stain is a linear slope. Each day you will have slightly less protection than the day before. One of the best indications of how long a drying finish will last/protect is the pigment to binder ratio. The pigment is what protects the wood from the sun and prevents graying. Binders are what hold the pigment and anti-microbials in place for lasting protection. In a drying stain the binder oils will cure to lock everything (pigment and anti-microbials) in place and seal the wood. By drying and sealing the wood they help to prevent water from getting into the wood. Locking the pigment and biocides in place at the surface where protection is needed results in a lasting finish. With a drying stain it is really going to come down to the pigment to binder ratio. For example Wood-Tux will provide the same protection at 400 square feet per gallon as it will at 200 square feet per gallon. This is because there is so much pigment and so much resin that you need much less penetration to lock in enough pigment and biocide to protect the wood. Because it actually cures it will continue to look the same until the finish begins to break down near the end of it's life cycle. The life cycle of a drying stain is represented by a base line with a curve at the end. Wood-Tux has a very long base line with a broad curve. Woodrich is also a drying stain. It has a lower pigment to binder ratio than Wood-Tux. It will dive much deeper into older dry wood because it has both drying and non drying oils. It does help to replenish the wood however still takes advantage of the curing properties to lock in the protection. Because it is lower in resin content, it is much easier to put more product into the wood. There is no real advantage in applying more than what is recommended. Like Wood-Tux, Woodrich is designed to protect the surface of the wood. You can get more oil down into the wood by over applying but that is not necessarily going to result in more protection for the wood. Woodrich has a nice baseline with a faster curve. If you are applying a drying stain, just remember, as long as you are applying wet on wet it will not form a film. The only time a drying stain will form a film is if the product can't dive into the wood. The only time that happens is if you apply more than the wood can take, or if your first application has dried preventing proper penetration of your second application. I don't want to speak for other products but Wood-Tux is nearly impossible to under apply. You would have to try really hard to actually stain the wood without getting enough lasting protection. The greatest challenge for contractors who use wood-Tux is learning not to over apply it. Woodrich is lower in pigment and resin so you can add a lot more product to the wood without over applying. Realistically if you ask when enough is enough I would say 200 square feet per gallon is enough. When I make claims as to what to expect from the product, they are based on a 200 square feet per gallon spread rate. If the wood is very old and very dry, you can apply more than that if you want to replenish the wood but it won't have much effect on how long your customer considers the finish aesthetically pleasing. All they see is what is going on at the surface. Does that make sense?

Larry I have seen contractors go to great lengths to measure the surface area of a baluster then multiply that out by the number of balusters in the hand rail. The would then do the same for the posts, rails caps and so on. This is a very precise method of determining the surface area so could deliver an even closer "estimate" of material usage. In construction they call it stick estimating. Some builders will break the "cost" of building a home down to the screws and glue. Others don't go much beyond speculating that it will cost roughly "X" dollars per square foot. When I say "guesstimate" I just mean that it is often much faster/easier to make an educated guess. As you said, you went the entire season never being off more than a gallon. You save tons of time by just using the static number four (4) on all rails rather than measure for the slight differences that occur from one rail to the next. So lets say that by actually measuring everything precisely you could cut that down to 1/2 gallon. The question becomes is it worth the extra time to narrow your margin of error by 1/2 gallon. Sure doesn't seem like it to me. I don't doubt your closing prowess. I was just speaking in general to the guy who might be less comfortable at the closing table. Sounds like you've got your marketing dialed in. When you've got the right message in front of the audience closing is as easy as doing them a favor. Do you think there is any thing in particular about your message that works so well among the more discerning audience that you target?

That depends on if you are estimating or guesstimating. Square foot is the surface area of the wood that you have to restore and preserve. If you are going to clean it and seal it, you've got to count it. It would take a lot of time to precisely measure the exact square footage of surface so most contractors use some degree of guesstimation. It is common for example to take the length of the hand rail times it's height to determine the actual surface area. This is not exact, but it is typically very close. You can take it to the next degree and just add six (6) foot to any side of the deck that has a rail. For instance a 10 X 10 deck with a house on one side would be calculated as 16 X 22 for a total of 352 square feet. By adding six foot to each side you pick up the area of the rail and the band board around the outside of the deck. The closer you are to the actual surface area, the better able you are to estimate your material usage. It also helps you to track your material costs. Estimating time is the other side of the coin. It is important for you to determine material usage but surface area it relative to the actual time on the job. It's hard to even type this without thinking about how much I hate handrails. Obviously if you are not spraying, an equal amount of handrail surface area is going to take much longer than the wide open surface area of a floor. If I were going to plug a number in I would say rail area warrants a factor of 1.5 or more If the floor takes an hour, the rail will take another hour and a half or more. Now finally you have to think about bidding. Once you have figured out how long it will take and how much it will cost you in materials, it's easy to set a price. This difficulty comes in presenting that information to your customer in a way they can accept. Sure, sometimes you can just say "I figure it'll be about $1,400.00 bucks" and they will jump right on it. If you don't want to catch yourself back peddling at the closing table, you should also be prepared to make them understand the "why" of your price if they should choose to challenge it. The more detail you can collect for yourself, the better able you are to monitor your business. The less information you have to give your customers, the easier it is for them to understand your price. For instance, IMO, you may explain that the rails take longer than the deck the deck, that's simple to comprehend. You would not want to give them a lesson in calculating complex surface areas followed by your formula for calculating the price.

Photo Submitted by: Paul Dinos Gazebo cleaned with EFC-38 and finished with Wood-Tux.

That shot definitely has "wow" factor. Celeste, that is really nice, it's unique, interesting and has a real artistic feel to it! Great job with the camera. If you have more shots from that job, post away! Thanks for your participation!

Wood-Tux will last longer on Ipe than Woodrich. Woodrich is certainly easier to use. The Wood-Tux application is rather slow on Ipe. Ipe is slow to allow penetration plan to spend more time than you would on a cedar or Pressure treated deck. For best results, first apply Wood-Tux heavy and allow to dwell a few minutes on the surface. Next use a dry lambs wool or rag to remove all of the excess stain. The wood should look thoroughly damp, but not wet or shiny. When applied this way Wood-Tux will last very well on Ipe and other exotic hardwoods. To speed the application process up, some contractors will cut Wood-Tux 3:2 with water and apply it in two consecutive coats. First a light coat followed by another good coat that gets back brushed/wiped.

I can see why it would be your favorite, that is a sweet shot! Really nice composition, good colors and interesting angle. I'd say it's pretty clear your stripper was working too. Thanks Rick

There are three categories: Decks, Houses and Series. The Series category is for before/after shots or compilations. You don't have to worry about the category. I will categorize them based on where they would earn the most points. There is also a Wildcard category made up of all of the photos submitted, regardless of which other category they are scored in. You can submit any photo you like. Finals are nice, a good shot of a stripper working would score high on product representation points. We are not looking for anything in particular we are after the "wow" factor. If you look under the fine print you will see the point scale that will be applied to each photo submitted.

Sure, post them right here. It doesn't have to be a new photo either. If you have any favorites in your archive post those too. If you need to reduce the file size in order to upload to TGS, I can do that for you. Just e-mail the file and I will post it on your behalf. Eventually, at the end of the contest, the finalists will be moved to a seperate thread with a poll for voting.

It will work with a long dwell time. Give me a call and I will tell you how to speed the process up.

John Seems like you've got nice sound test parameters set up. Most importantly, you are testing on the wood that is most popular among your target audience. I would expect Wood-Tux to perform very well under that conditions that you describe. This is the most extreme test you can put the product through. You are simulating the conditions created by a steady soaking downpour of rain. If the wood is puddling water, there is a good chance it is soaked. That's okay, it's what the product was created for. Because this is the most extreme test it requires the most controlled application. This is how I would apply to insure the longest results. If the wood is rough cut, I would get the surface free of puddles and at least wait long enough for the standing water between the wood's surface and the standing grain to dissipate. Ideally there should be no standing water on the surface. If the wood is smooth cut, as soon as the puddles are gone, you are good to go. When doing your test, imagine waiting about 10 to 15 minutes after the downpour before you get back to work. I would apply one real quick light coat followed immediately with a second heavy coat. If you are spraying, just make a quick pass over three or four boards then go back with the heavy coat. You don't need any more than 30 seconds in between. I would then allow the wood to soak for a bit before back brushing. When you back brush, you are not trying to spread to get an even finish, you are trying to remove the excess stain from the surface. If you are actually using a brush, use a dry brush. Many contractors like to use dry stain pads or even rags on smooth cut wood. When you are finished applying the wood should look more damp than wet. There should not be any excess product on the surface. After a few minutes if the wood was really wet, you might see puddles of water forming on the surface of the wood. It is best to brush out these puddles. In real world conditions, I recommend that contractors wait about 15 minutes after staining before they leave the job site. This will give enough time to determine if the deck is going to puddle water. Under these conditions, even though the wood was soaked with water I would expect your test horizontal test samples to last 2 years in full sun. I would expect your vertical samples to last about 3. If the wood were only damp, say 20 - 30% moisture I would predict 3 and 4 years respectively. The reason the stain is not curing correctly on your test samples is because it was over applied and there is a build up on the surface. When applied correctly, there would be no product above the surface of the wood to scratch off. The product is VERY high in resin and pigment solids. Under applying is the last of your worries. Remember just 2-3 mills of product applied at the surface of the wood can dive 30 to 40 mils into the wood depending on the porosity of the wood. The key is how much of the good stuff you are getting into those top few mills. Does you no good what so ever to dive deep, unless you are also protecting at the surface. Wood-Tux has a lot of protection built in. I hope this helps you understand the product better. Best of Luck

Travis Applying Ready Seal is a breeze. It looks like you've done a great job with the cleaning and prep work so You shouldn't have any trouble at all. The idea of applying two coats is to saturate the wood with product. In theory the longer you wait between coats the better. The longer you allow the first coat to soak in, the more product you will be able to apply on the second coat. Some contractors will actually come back a day or two after the first coat and apply again. Other contractors will apply two saturating coats within the same day. Application is a matter of personal preference but clearly spraying the spindles will save time. Overspray on most surfaces is very easy to remove with just a damp rag. To protect porous surfaces such as the brick in your photos you will want to somehow mask the surface. I like to use hand held paint screens. Some like to use plastic and tape. Others will simply brush out the area near any porous substrate and then pick up spraying from a safe distance. Because ready seal will never overlap, it is easy to blend in your stop/start point. When you spray the rails themselves, choose an angle that minimizes the gap between the balusters. For instance looking straight on at them reveals the greatest gap. You can drape tarps over the rail to catch overspray, some contractors will staple burlap to the tops of the posts so they can flip it to the opposite side from where they are working. Burlap can be purchased in long rolls or bolts. The Decker comes in two different orifice sizes. You can easily differentiate by checking the GPM on the pump. The pressure that works best for you will be subject to the GPM of the pump and how fast you like to move. As a rule of thumb, the higher the pressure the more defined you pattern will be, however the higher the pressure the easier it will be for the wind to disrupt your pattern. It doesn't take long at all to dial in what works best for you. It looks like you are doing a great job so far. I have no doubt you will have that deck looking great when it's finished. Best of Luck

Bill Send me an e-mail to imrcc1@aol.com and I will send you over a copy of each MSDS

Paul You had me pretty excited there for a min. but I think you forgot the pictures.

Travis Both EFC-38 and HD-80 will strip F&P. Apply your stripper to a small area (squirt bottle will work fine) and allow to dwell. After about 5 min dwell time, use a tongue depressor, popsicle stick or other wooden object to gently scratch the surface. When the existing finish has been emulsified you will be able to scratch it with gentle pressure exposing the bare wood beneath. If you are not able to remove the finish after 5 minutes, wait another 5 min and try again. When you are able to easily scratch the finish away, note the time. If it is a standard single coat application of F&P, EFC-38 should work in about 15 min. HD-80 will start to work between 5 and 10 minutes. Dumb actually means "without voice" or "unable to speak." You are neither. Best of Luck!