Tonyg

Got backed up with a couple of wet weeks but finally was able to go back and finish up. Replaced 6-8 boards (most of which were original he had under the deck from original construction), extensively sanded, and tightened many boards with new screws.

Bought a new toy today - a double cut saw http://www.harborfreight.com/5-double-cut-saw-68316-8065.html Thought I would give it a try to replace boards easier and it worked great. It has two 5 inch blades that rotate in opposite directions so I was able to plunge cut without the blade kicking and its small enough to cut individual boards rather than pulling the whole thing up. Pretty cool, never seen one before

This was my winter deck kinda Was over there yesterday to take a few pictures and remembered this thread. Customer had put the home on the market and wanted to have it done before the first open house in mid Feb. It was cleaned in January and finished Feb 11/12 when we were fortunate to have temps hit the 60's for two days. BM Acrylic Solid for surface and Armstrong Clark semi-solid Mountain Cedar to trim out the sides They had originally asked me a year or two to do it but I refused since this is on a very busy inlet. I had originally planned to use a percarb and citric but it had what I call a heavy mildew 'scale' that it would have taken strippers. I guess it's not really wood restoration since I just used pressure on a wide fan so we could move this over to the diy section . I had checked before with the state environmental office and was told that even using city water is illegal and considered a contaminant since it has fluoride and other treatments so I was overly cautious, and nervous..

Well, the stain color has been chosen for this http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/25292-virginia-beach-deck-restoration.html deck. Going with a Mountain Cedar / Oxford Brown combo so I guess this will be the year of the semi-solid for me if I can sell it

Thanks Jake. The only thing we have here is PTP amd most are not in what I would consider good shape. I do like the semi-trans but probably will promote the semi-solids more with existing decks. I do a few newer decks, but not many, and would continue using the semi-trans on those. My preferred color for new PT is the Amber but also Cedar Semi and a couple of blends. I do not like the reds on new PT. For older decks I prefer the CS, a combination of Rustic Brown/Cedar Semi, or Mahogany/Rustic Brown. On very old wood I would typically use the Cedar Semi as I don't like how the semi-trans of the Rustic Brown or Mahogany dries out and looks inconsistent on the knots or heart grain. All the stains look great the first 6-12 months but I usually try to choose stain based on how they wear in over time. The Cedar Semi & Amber seem to wear in more naturally looking, where the reds and browns will show obvious color differences between areas that may wear faster or where the grey lines may stand out more. Depending on age and condition for instance that color difference is amplified. I would love to hear how the Mountain Cedar and Woodland Brown looks after the first year or so.

I rarely would even include them in my samples because I was partial to the semi-trans and was afraid they would be too opaque. Anxious to try a couple of the other colors now.

PC and mobile - - - Updated - - - PC and mobile

I have been considering re-evaluating my pricing structure to better account for my stain costs. I use the AC stains and have maintained a stock of anywhere between 10 to 30 gallons at times. Some of that was intentional, stocking the typical Cedar semi or other more popular colors that I use, and and the rest being overage from jobs. For example a deck that may take 6 gallons and I need to order 10, or in the case of the current deck, I expect to need 14 to 15 gallons so I ordered 20. Looking back over the last two years my stain costs have been running at 17%, which seems very high in my opinion, and my sf rates are not low (just my profitability). I am considering lowering my square footage rate by say 15%, and then separating actual stain costs, and ordering (and charging) per job. Now, because of cost, this may make my job bids considerably higher. So, if you're doing hundreds of decks a year I'm sure maintaining stock is much more appropriate. The 'cost' of maintains stock is still an expense though. I may do a dozen or so decks a year and I am wondering if keeping stock and overage and using the averages, at a total sf rate, is really working out best for smaller volume. Does anyone price their stain separately and how does the numbers come out?

Now that I've got a few years under me I want to hone in my numbers better. I know with the coverage varies widely, and I've only seen one ipe deck and one redwood fence, so yes PT is all that I see. I went back over the last 2 years and compared my averages. Again, I appreciate the direction

So. I think then I will break out the stain in my rates. I'm still a little unclear now whether 17% stain cost is high or low. If costs are running 35%-40%, how much of that is stain, or of what percentage to revenue? Thanks guys. I appreciate your experience and knowledge

Only about 10-15% of mine have been new. Most in the 10-15 year range or older so I sell heavy on complete sanding, nail setting, fastening boards, etc. This seems to be typical for me so my arm is hurting just thinking about it. I think this one is scheduled for mid April though.

never tried acupuncture but I'm not opposed to it. been planning on going to the Ortho for a shot. Had them in my knee, shoulder, and back and they usually work great so I thought I might try my elbow this time.

Perfect! I've never seen them before. I may try the Milwaukee M12 Cordless Milwaukee M12 Cordless Palm Nailer Kit, 2458-21, red lithium battery - Amazon.com

I suggest some good, deep reading and would would highly recommend Mere Christianity by CS Lewis - Mere Christianity: C. S. Lewis: 9780060652920: Amazon.com: Books The Pursuit of God by AW Tozer - http://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-God-W-Tozer/dp/1557427534/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362006951&sr=1-5&keywords=tozer+books

I think I can safely say this will be my token acrylic strip for the year. One coat Deckscapes oil semi-trans and the two coats Deckscapes solid acrylic. Definitely my hardest stripping of a deck yet. Learned a few lessons on this one and I really enjoyed the outcome but would like some easier ones in before the year is out. Deck sealed with AC Rustic Brown/Cedar Semi/Natural. Rails, trim, and 'ceiling' coated with SW Deckscapes. Homeowner opted to save some money and install new balusters himself (thankfully).

In larger construction estimating knowing cost is essential. Once direct costs of any individual process is determined then that is used for the estimating. The software, spreadsheet, database, etc. can give a base rate and then its the experience that adjusts the rates to real world variables. I agree with Adam in that a system can be used to bring a more accurate base rate. But, it's the experience that will bring success and profit.

I have been re-evaluating my fee schedule and wanted it to reflect my actual/average production times and costs. I want my pricing to better reflect actual labor and be able to distinguish material costs and depreciation better. I don’t mind sharing my pricing or what this deck priced out at but I am more interested in comparing how my labor compares to others. This deck is a very nondescript, very average deck with an unknown stain, unknown age, and unknown history. The house is 12 years old and I am not sure when the deck was added. I was there to do an interior painting estimate and gave them an estimate on exterior painting and deck restoration while there hoping for the upsell. Finished the interior and deck last week and have the exterior scheduled for October. I used this deck as a sample because it would be a good sample to test my production times. If you want to play along could you give how many direct MH (excluding transportation) you would have in these areas: 1 - Strip 2 – Prep 3 - Stain Sample Deck 12x16 Pressure Treated Pine Standard 4 steps 3’ wide 36’ Total Rails Sample After.pdf Sample After Prep.pdf Sample Before.pdf Sample before - After.pdf

Thanks for the great feedback. I really don't care what your pricing is although it is interesting. Starting business you need to know what the market is but staying in business means you need to know what your costs are. The reason I am honing my numbers is because the painting side has been timed and broken down in detail but I need much more accuracy in my labor costs for wood restoration. I kinda stoked that my times were in the ball park as working alone it is hard to have decent benchmarks. [quote name= Nail counter sinking with empty nail gun helps tremendously Rod!~[/quote] Rod that's ingenious! I use a 5lb maul and a drift pin/hole punch (3/8"x8"x3/4" GEARWRENCH BlackOxide Alloy Steel Starter Punch | Fastenal) and I've wondered how I was going to expect an employee to crawl across a large deck swinging the maul without the image of the chain gang ( ). What kind of nail gun do you use? I have Paslodes but I believe they have a flat shank. Sorry Charlie, I make too much and stay too busy with the painting. I would love to be able to set up and train a couple of employees to run full time as a separate company exclusive to wood similar to what you, James, and Rick does. Shooting for a seasonal biz now with the painting biz continuing with the house washing and commercial pw. I would love to be doing more wood resto but I just don't get the time.

Thanks Charlie, Is that 5 man hours or 10 man hours? I did have some extenuating circumstances with sustained wind at 15-20mph which is fine as I would rather use these times rather than basing my pricing on an ideal day. I'm using the 5.6gpm trailer mounted and plan on setting up an additional mounted pump for chems like you mentioned. right now the trailer is enclosed multipurpose as painting is still my primary revenue. I had hopes to spinning off seasonal deck resto biz next year and am looking to you guys to bring production numbers and processes to where it is profitable. Thus why I am crunching the numbers a little more now. This deck priced in at $801.31 for me.

Depending on how much it is sanded. Ideally I would like to wet down the down after sanding but most of the time, unless circumstances make it necessary, the cost to sand and come back on a separate day after drying to stain would be prohibitive. If this is your deck, and you have the time, by all means wet it down after sanding but otherwise the majority of the time I don't believe it is that critical.

My Deckster is down so I ended up using the Xjet for chem application and an airless for stain application. I check and counter sink every nail, use a square buff to sand floor and 5 1/4 in orbital for the rest. Used AC Cedar Semi for finish. I'm curious how I compare to what you would have on this deck. Here is what it took me: 1 - Strip: 3hr 10min - 30min set up - 45min Caustics application & Dwell - 75min Strip/PW - 20min Acid - 20min Pack up 2 Prep 2hr - 15min set nails, tighten boards, etc. - 1hr 45min sand 3 Stain 2hrs 30min - 30min cover, tape and protect - 2hr 10min Stain Total Production Time 7hrs 40min

Does golf cart count as 'driving'? If you are going to do multiples you could set up a sweet rig with golf cart and trailer. And, like Ace said, a good flat bottom work boat could be a money maker when working on the rails and perimeter. Don't forget, you can charge an ungodly premium for doing what nobody else will/can do.

Just thought I would post these so others can have an idea what it can look like after a couple of years. I just happen to be across the street at another customer so I walked over to see how it was holding up. To me it is always helpful to know what to expect so I can manage expectations. This was a small deck and fence I did 25months ago which was stripped/sanded/stained with Armstrong Clark Cedar Semi. Willis Deck 4.pdf

Well, my first question would have to be is that really what it looks like or is that just the way the picture makes it look? The picture looks great but you've probably taken more pictures than I so you can tell when they look different in person. I have never used the timber oils before but I was under the impression it was similar to a toner. Is the TWP 1515 the same as the timber oil and how does your 3yr timber oil deck look compared to this TWP? I offered the TWP to a large deck last year and would have been happy to use it but the customer chose an AC semi-solid. I was going to try the 500 (?) series but I believe that is the one that was changed/discontinued. I also think it is smart to use more than one stain line as I don't believe there is a one-fits-all product. Scott carries multiple products because there is a market to sell to for multiple products and as contractors I think having options in addition to our primary products is smart as well.

You're kidding right? Even with your anti-Armstrong Clark crusade, and a penchant for the obscure, this is a lame brain statement. Because this deck looks good at this point in time it must be smoke and mirrors, camera angle, or the way light interacts with the digital processors. Then you say that timber oil looks better after 3yrs? Please show me pictures (assuming the pics are not distorted by the digital camera) So now you're promoting ESI instead of knocking their products so you can tear down another product? The point of my original post was to show what a 2nd year deck can look like compared to those great looking pics we all have of a newly restored deck. Your zeal against the AC stains has gone beyond product research and into this obsession that's seems very similar to past years where mud was slinging at ESI. Personally I like the way Rick handles the stain issue - I use Ready Seal because it has worked great for me - rather than trashing every other product on the market. I use Benjamin Moore paints, drive a Ford van, and use Armstrong Clark stains. These are preferences that work for me in my business. I will try not to say that Sherwin Williams, Chevy, and Ready Seal are trash and anyone who chooses them are using inferior products that will ruin your customers and your business. Enough already - try a more balanced approach.