Everett Abrams

I would say that I run between 1500-2000psi with a 25 degree tip, generally. If I need more it is there. When I refer to two hours please understand that is an average house, say 50x30 or so, with little challenges. This does not include driving and packing up equipment. To make money on a house and include the driving and pack up time in your price, which the job should pay for, you need to get it done in that time frame and most people do. There is no rocket science to this. Most people price at about $1/linear ft./floor. With that in mind you will get about $300-$350 for the average house I mentioned above. If you add your drive time to and from the site as well as setting up and breaking down equipment, add the two hours or so to clean and you have 3 hours or so into the job. This comes out in the neighborhood of $100/hr, which is about the average for house washing. No real secrets here, the secrets are in how you sell your repeat business and generate more income without having to spend as much effort on subsequent cleanings. Ken, you are more than welcome to come and watch. At this point spring is probably best. There are many factors being thrown into the conversation and a combination of things are often what is needed to complete the job that will satisfy(or exceed the customer perception) for a fair price to both contractor and homeowner. When you get into some of the detailing that is being discussed, like scrubbing and so forth, then to me that is an upsell and should be sold JUST that way to a homeowner. We do many $400-$600 homes that do not fall into the category we are discussing. My comments are for an average home, average washing, average pricing, average time, average everything. When it is all said and done my goal is to get at least $100/hr for the entire time it takes me to do the job that I submitted to the property owner.

I disagree, X-Jets make it "less necessary", not "usually" Also, how are the chemicals that much better? Bleaches and detergants have changed that much? This is no different than any other application. If you can wash from the ground and it is easy that is one thing however, most of the time the buildings and homes are very moldy, dirty, etc. and I am saying old school or new school that there are areas that need more attention than standing on the ground as much as the "new schoolers" do. The other issue is you should not be spraying water at increased pressure from the type of angle most do from the ground to the second floor. Agreed on chemical usage and not pressure. Do you ever wonder why many directions use the word "agitiate" when working with chemicals and cleaners. This means they need scrubbing. If you really think you can clean rust, acid rain, jet fuel, mold, mildew, algae, dirt, clay stains, egg residue, etc. without scrubbing and using ladders at times then I am disagreeing with you. Again, these are just my opinions. By the way, I am assuming you are calling me old school. Thanks for making me feel an old, almost 42! LOL :lgsad: Time to go watch some football! Good discussion.

Actually I was not going to go this far into this as I do things differently than most. I sell the customer on more frequent cleanings at a reduced price from the original price, or than a one time price. I sell them on "maintaining" the appearance as well as preventing the need for higher pressure washing in the future. In other words, if you keep up with the cleaning and maintaining of the siding or substrate the less pressure and aggressive you need to be on the next cleaning. A further example of this is with stucco and drivit. Many customers say they do not want the stucco or drivit cleaned because of the damage it can cause. Many customers want three sides of a house done and not the stucco for the same reasons. Here is the annoying part that I run into, contractors agreeing with them! This is not the reason to not wash or clean it is an opportunity to sell what we do. The more frequent you wash the less build up and the less agressive you need to be. So on repeat visits you can pretty much just apply chems, allow to dwell, and then lightly rinse and go for a "maintenance" price. What I mentioned above is for onetime cleaning which I commented on my opinions above. So to answer your question Ken, I do whatever is necessary to clean a surface with the least amount of pressure or potential damage to a surface. If this includes precleaning or scrubbing problem areas first, yes that is what we do. I can honestly say that I rarely clean a building or home on the first cleaning where I did not need a ladder or prescrub and clean some area. I do not know how many people when they go to building or residential cleanings try and "sell" the customer on the benefits of more frequent cleanings and trying to create more income. I do not know of any companies who do and why I was not going to even comment. When I leave a job they know what the price will be on the next visit(s) and in what time frame it must be done in to get that price. I'd much rather take care of the customer I already have and build my business this way then to constantly market and have to bring in new customers.

Jeff, To be clearer we use the X-jet to apply chemicals on buildings, we do not wash or rinse with the X-jet. We rarely use an extension pole. Ladders and harnesses are my preferred equipment choices. If you use ladder extensions at the top of the ladders it puts you "away" from the house. Again, it is my opinion that a person on the ground can not do as good of a job as one who uses a ladder. I honestly have NEVER done a house(more than one story) or building where I did not need a ladder for some reason. I also take into account the perception value of the customer and for me the decision is easy. I am certainly not alone on this as many of my competitors do the same. The largest competitior of home and buildings in my area sells hand scrubbing as necessary on all buildings. That not all areas can be cleaned by the pressure washer. That on all homes there is something or some area that should be hand scrubbed or washed prior to the washing with a pressure washer. I do not disagree. To often I see people merely throw on chemicals and rinse and tell the customer that it is the "best it will come up" when in fact rust stains, egg stains, etc. should be scrubbed first before pressure washing for a better end result. Again, these are my opinions and how my company performs. I am not saying that if you do it another way you are doing a "bad" job. This is how I position my company to do the job to what I feel is the optimal level.

You guys bring up a topic that I have not spoken up about enough but it bothers the heck out of me. X-jets and different types of chemical injectors are great tools. In my opinion though they are ONLY tools that help speed up time and make it easier to apply chemicals, at a lower pressure to a large area. This is it, not for anything else. I see more and more people posting and in person that use these tools to actually wash. Apply chemical, close valve, change tip or for the M5 they turn the nozzle and rinse. Two problems for me with this, the first is that you do no justice to elevated problem areas like dormers and gable vents. The person who actually gets up and washes and actually sees up close the results WILL do a better job. Secondly, you are simply washing from the WRONG angle. While you should wash from a higher angle than the siding to prevent as much water as possible from running down and it will not loosen the siding, there are times where you need to get the bottom lip of the siding. This should not be done from the ground, it should be done with just a slight angle below the lip and not directly below. I have seen a lot of "popped" seams and where two pieces come together where people tell me that the washer did everything from the ground. This is just my feeling but even with extension poles, a ladder and getting up close is still the way to go for results as well as customer perception. The customer "thinks" that I do a better job regardless if they are the same or not. We still can do an average house in about two hours with this method. Just my opinion and how we do it.

Yes, being worked on.

I wasn't going to do this and I have for the most part sworn off posting on Bulletin Boards anymore. I have spoken to many people over the past year who have really changed my perception of this "tool." There was time when these bulletin boards were for education and communication FOR ALL. Now there are so many flaws with this that it has detracted from the real professionals even participating like they once did. These bulletin boards have become nothing more than a hobby for those wishing to be in the middle of drama. Heck, for those of us who have been around for a while we know of folks who have gotten on here and didn't even own a business. They use to search the web for answers just to post like they knew what they were talking about. There is a problem when these outlets take on the culture that now exists. What is that culture? It is one where many people simply will not post for fear of being intimidated, ridiculed, or degragated in some fashion. For one person to feel that way it is ashame. These forums should be for ANYONE to post without a fear of reaction. Many folks use these not to debate topics but more to fill a void that is lacking somewhere else, which I will not go futher. I also can not comment on the amount of times in the past year that other contractors or "OUR" customers have read some of these forums and commented on "mixed messages" and "unprofessional contractors." The general rule of thumb should be that we all post like we talking to one of our customers. It is my opinion that the true professionals have left these boards and are busy running their businesses. It is my opinion that these bulletin boards now detract from the professional image that the industry needs and is searching for. I may be preaching to the crowd but this is how I feel and I will let others debate it. It is my opinion that the culture that exists on ALL of these bulletin boards needs some serious changes to culture and ethics or they should go away. This is not how it is on other industry Bulletin Boards I visit, why is it this way in the power washing industry?

I was more referring to August and September climates. Most of us know the moisture levels go up this time of year with less humidity. I was referring to months where temperatures are dropping and humidity is still high.

Flash drying does not always have to do with temperatures. Many people can make this mistake, especially in the northeast. High humidity is also a cause for flash drying. In the northeast we just went through a time where it wasn't necessarily hot but it was VERY humid and no rain for a while. Temperatures can be 80-85 degrees and most people do not think that there will be a problem. This is the mistake where humidity is a factor. Humidity will cause the wood to "sweat." When the wood sweats moisture is actually in the wood cells. When you apply a nice penetrating oil base sealer this is an issue. A penetrating sealer is meant to fill the wood cells, as opposed to film formers. When the product has moisture in the cells it keeps more product on the surface causing flash drying, or more accurately the product dries on the surface in these areas. So it is just not temperatures and heat that can cause flash drying as humidity can also cause the same effect.

FYI, Cabot is NOT among the top in NJ at this time. If you are going to start up next year things may be different. Cabot is struggling in NJ and NY at this time with their product and the new VOC compliance. I am waiting to see how they improve for 2006. My biggest problem is that now we will essentially have 3 different products, of the same name, in 3 consecutive years. Maintenance coats are impossible under these circumstances as both the colors and the products are different. It is my opinion at this time that a paraffinic oil based product is the "safest" product to use when using an oil base in NJ. The information on Cabot was from their technical and support people that I have spoken with in the last six weeks. Many issues with flash drying and the product actually getting into the wood.

I believe there are a lot of great responses in this thread. I was merely trying to express my thoughts to a community that I care about. Big Pete was accurate in relaying my thoughts as was Matt Johnson. I think we do a disservice to ourselves as an industry and individuals when we allow the culture that I speak of to exist. I speak out because I would like to see it change. Many of the folks I speak of are still in the industry they just don't post anymore and I believe it has as much to do with the culture as it does a cycle change. I know people find other interests and move on but I feel we as a community could do a better job, that's all. I have spoken to many of the folks here and on other bb's on the phone, not just on a bbs. I can't say I do not like anyone and I am sure that could be said by many of you. My point being, that while we all won't always get along at times you would think that many of just can't stand others. I believe this to be rare and in fact think that without the internet and in person face-to-face many of us would be very good friends. Maybe I am wishing for something that can not, and will not exist. I wish that all of us and our customers would be able to come to these bulletin boards and say "Wow, there is alot more to this than I realized. These contractors seem to take their business very seriously and professional. I think I will call one in my area." As it is now I do not think they would get that impression. I also want to restate that it isn't THIS bulletin board, we all see it on the others as well. I just posted it here because of traffic and the variety of people here. I am glad there are bulletin boards for people to find information and communicate on. I am not so sure though that we haven't crossed a line where the negatives are catching up with the positives. Nothing wrong with wanting to better such a valuable tool by voicing my opinion than to sit back as I have and not say anything, understand this is my perception and just wanted to share. Thank you all for your comments and thoughts, this has become a very good thread.

Jon, You and I have met on these bulletin boards and I have, and still do, enjoy your posts. I agree with you about fun as well. I would turn around and ask you if you think they are as fun as they once were? Have you not noticed a change over say the past five years that is not better? You want specifics and what I will say is that the bulletin boards have become so populated with information that a "customer" can now do a search on deck cleaning or anything else and get a direct link to a specific forum. What I am saying is that I have had customers comment on the reading of these posts. This was not as common as it is today. I personally do not like my customers, or potential customers, reading some of the stuff that exists on these bulletin boards. I would say that the DIY bulletin board touches a wider variety of topics and people with more traffic and you do not see this culture on that bulletin board. My question is why is it on these bulletin boards at all? I actually posted here because this has more traffic than the other sites and I thought the answers would be interesting, if nothing else. I still believe bulletin boards are tools and maybe I am being a bit nostalgic but I use to enjoy going to the bulletin boards and seeing what you, Littlefield, reed, Dave Olson, Greg Rentschler, Scott Stone, Jim Foley, and others posted. I do not see the same bulletin boards I once knew. Is it me or have they changed?

I do not want to spoil the unveiling of the new site but it is way more than a facelift. Everyone should be very surprised. Should be up and running in the next day or so. There will be tweaking and features that will take a bit longer to have accessible but you will certainly see the difference.

More than just a start! U.S. Postal Service Delivers Huge Opportunity for PWNA members! One of the key benefits of membership with Pressure Washers of North America is the opportunity to network and build our businesses on a nation-wide scale. Our years of hard work in promoting PWNA to both members of our industry and the entire business community have now reaped a huge reward. In August, we received a most welcome phone call from a representative of the United States Postal Service (USPS). The caller explained that the USPS was looking to streamline the number of service provides contracted by the USPS and wants to work with PWNA members. The USPS operates one of the world’s largest and most recognized transport and delivery fleets with over 200,000 vehicles driving approximately 1.1 billion miles a year. They deliver to 142 million delivery addresses, delivering more mail to more people over a larger geographical area than any other postal system in the world. Obviously, keeping a fleet of this size clean is a formidable task. Currently, USPS has hundreds of local washing agreements scattered from coast-to-coast, but they hope to streamline the administration of the fleet washing by replacing these existing contracts (as they expire) with fewer national, regional or local companies. And they are looking to the members of PWNA to help facilitate this process. In all, the annual revenue potential for our membership is $20 million-plus! Due to the shear volume of calls and administration required to coordinate this massive undertaking, the USPS does not want direct enquires to their head office. Instead, they are working with a Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania-based company, called CombineNet, to coordinate the bidding process. Over the next few weeks, CombineNet will be contacting PWNA members with an invitation to bid on the USPS pressure washing contracts in their regions. We are providing this information so that you will know for certain that this is a legitimate (and lucrative) business opportunity. Once contacted, PWNA members will then be directed to the CombineNet Web site: at ******** to download a detailed information package. This package contains a comprehensive set of guidelines covering scope of services, environ- mental compliance, contractor responsibilities vehicle specifications, and much more. PWNA members can place bids by searching for specific geographical areas by zip code, county, state, regional county, or a national basis. We are thrilled to have the opportunity to work with the USPS through CombineNet and encourage all PWNA members in the United States to make an effort to participate in this tremendous opportunity. Business opportunities like this don’t come about often, but when they do, they are positive proof that there really is ‘strength in numbers’… and great benefit to being a member of PWNA! Paul Horsley ~ PWNA President paul@scottspressurewash.com (403) 245-4020

Rod, I am the same as you. We still use punches for small jobs. I just started using the nail gun, it works! I picked that up on another BB. The deck above was that "picnic table red" solid. Actually it seemed to have the semi first and then it was gone over with a solid. The rails are primed and two top coats. The decking was stripped twice and sanded. This is a nice alternative though when the solid is a bugger to remove.

I never have a problem offering a two-tone in these situations. In any event, I am more concerned with proper adhesion on the horizontal surfaces. If it doesn't strip I break out the drum sander. If you set the nails or screws first the sanding doesn't take long at all. I do not rely on putting the primer right over the old on the horizontals.

I have questions in regards to this thread. I have not used HD-80 or F-18 so I can not speak of their results. Cabot solids are recommended to be primed with the oil-base problem solver followed by two coats of acrylic finish coats. Are you all saying that these products will allow you to strip these coats off enough to go back to a translucent or semi-tranparent stain?

Life is like a poker hand, you can only play with the cards you are dealt. These folks have been dealt a horrible hand to play. The pictures and sites we see on TV are only a small representation of what it is really like. For those that have been in the middle of this, only they truly know the difficulties. The problem with society is that we dwell much too often on the negative. We see it everyday when we turn on the news. Even during this tragedy we will often see the negative sites and stories. What gets missed are the heartwarming stories and the unselfish acts that go unnoticed. These acts and behavior is what gives us faith in manknid and hope for a better tomorrow. To Cujo, Pam, and others who have helped, it is nice when life deals a few aces like you!

rabela, You should take the advice of the folks who have commented here. No offense to you but you did put a product that no professional would have applied previously. Now you are asking about a product from the same manufacturer. This in itself leads me to recommend that you let a professional do this work. Further, as Jim alluded to, I would not recommend a Sikkens product to a homeowner because of the maintenance factor, which is that a homeowner rarely keeps up with this properly. Granted I do not know you and you may well keep up, I am merely stereotyping. By not following manufacturer's recommendations you void their guarantee. These folks will ask that you followed all of their instructions and if not, you lose. The other side of this is that you do not perform the work correctly and it now(or later) becomes a bigger and harder project to either restore and repair, or even to maintain. When this happens the contractor will charge you more to fix it if they are good at their skill. If not, as Jon alluded to about some pros, they won't know and will either damage or start the job and either not finish and possibly even worse compound the problem later by other means. I would think that a contractor, if they got the job, would explain to you how to maintain and keep up with the home after they have left. In this way you could pick up some savings down the road and have a beautiful looking home without worries. These are merely my views and opinions. Best of luck to you on this project!

This problem is happening all over and one of the Cabot reps stated that NJ and NY were the worst because of the reformulation. The problem is that with the changes to the solvent and the solids content that it is not the same product as before. It is harder to get the product into the wood in this climate. There have been two problems that add to this. The first is that you can not stain or seal by air temperature. You need to go by surface temperature. It can be 85 degrees outside but if the deck is in the sun the surface temperature could be 100 degrees, certainly over 85 degrees. The other is humidity. Humidity causes moisture issues as well. In these cases it could be 85 or 90 degrees but if it is as humid as it has been in the northeast the wood can "sweat" in the humidity. This moisture is in the wood cells. What these two issues will cause is flash drying, which means that the product will dry to close to the surface and not get into the wood. This leaves the sticky spots and the blotchiness that you are all referring to. From experience I have stripped the deck and brightened it and allowed it to sit for a bit and wait for cooler temperatures, this doesn't seem to apply now. What I have seen from the new timber oil is that while the surface stuff comes off there is still residual product in the wood that when reapplied it seems to compound the blotchy effect. This new formulation is certainly not as forgiving and seems to not tolerate the climate as the old product. Cabot suggests that after stripping it off to allow it to age for 6-8 weeks and redo the deck. I am aware of at least three decks with the same problems. I guess this is more reason to use a parafinic oil based product?

Jon Fife has the right answer, go right to the stripper at a diluted rate and brighten. Do not mess around as this will effectively remove everything from the surfaces and leave a more consistent result for which to stain or seal.

Happy Birthday and I hope you get to enjoy your day!

This is where I disagree with the chlorine bleacheads. Chlorine bleach on cedar(softwood) usually gets done improperly. I see it all the time. This is the same for staining. A novice contractor can use Ready Seal because it is forgiving and and is basically goof proof. If you apply other types of finishes the same way you will in all likelyhood show lap marks and drip marks. Same with bleach to a novice. Sodium percarbonate(oxygenated bleach) is more goof proof that chlorine bleach is on the cedar. The wrong dilution, dwell time, getting dry on the surfaces and such WILL affect the end result. The mahogany is a hardwood and should have been left to season and then a light wash before sealing. Different woods, different applications, different methods, different dwell times, and so on. You can't treat every species of wood the same and expect great results. These are of course my opinions and I am sure at least one person will not agree.

I never take on someone else's work. I would strip off and start over. This way you can guarantee your own work better.

Rob, What is amazing to me is that I have seen decks that are newly installed where the ends are cracked to ****. Some of the folks installing do not do the necessary homework on the product. If you ask 4 out 5 deck builders I would bet they didn't make money on their first one because they didn't figure in the proper labor. I went to one guy who was blowing through blades and the ends were all burnt. He thought more teeth to the blade the better to cut the IPE, which less is better. So I do agree with this and a lot of the other species of wood we see that they are all not the same. If I had an IPE deck I would only wash it and throw a coating on it when I had an event. It is most of our customers who worry about appearance, they just do not want to pay to maintain it, they feel they have spent enough on an IPE deck. I am with you on acrylics, I hope someone soon comes up with a stripper that is as effective as sodium hydroxide is on oil, for the right price.