Everett Abrams

The Joint Coatings Committee is basically an informal type committee right now that works strictly on a volunteer and only when needed basis with the Forest Products Laboratory. Many of the standards that were put in place were done when Sam Williams was in charge and has since retired. He is an amazing man who knows more about wood and coatings than anyone I have ever met. As Beth alluded to there have been a lot of changes over the years and some of these need updating as well as some new ones created. The reason the committee was disbanded was due to cutbacks in the government, The Forest Products Laboratory is part of the Department of Agriculture and their budgets were cut like everyone else's during the recession. There are some projects being worked on but they are slow in coming. Many of the large manufacturers have replicated test farms at their facilities and continue to perform R & D on products but that is truly where a lot of todays research is coming from, individual manufacturer's. If you have specific question please feel free to PM me as well.

Problem Solver is the Primer made by Cabot. Cabot has an excellent line of solid stains for these type of issues. The primer will act to give you a "like new" surface to work from prior to applying the top coat(s). If you go with a light color you will most likely need to top coats. Do a good job with the prime coat and you will be happy with the result. It is a GREAT idea to use a natural type sealer or semi-transparent stain for the floor as that will need the more frequent maintenance. The other issue with an older deck is as the wood ages you will get a lot of checking and cracking in the wood that does not help using a solid finish, you will have to address peeling. For homeowners that try to do their own work two-tones are a great idea. The solid stain on the rail system that require the tedious part of the restoration as well as the more costly part of the project become much easier to maintain moving forward. None of this negates the prep part of the project. The better the surfaces are prepared, the better the end result. You should still strip and brighten/neutralize all surfaces and then sand any problem areas or where there is any peeling. With a solid stain and that particular product you do not need to remove the old coating in entirety. A stain works best when it can "grab" the wood so the better you prepare the surface and remove as much of the old coatings as possible the longer your new coatings will last. Screw this up though and you will have a problem, solid stains and multiple coats are not made to come right off. Good luck with your project and if you go with Cabot read the instructions on the can and follow them. There is also a lot of info on their website.

It was at the Indian Chief in 2004.

Two to remember...

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Upgrades

Here are a couple of pics that show before/after:

Ipe has applications that are 50 years old and more with no sealer. How long are you trying to extend the life? Ipe as a product will already last 3 to 5 times longer than traditional material such as cedar, redwood, and any of the pressure treated products. The ONLY reason to need a sealer is for appearance sake. The purchaser of Ipe needs to be informed that this will probably need annual maintenance for appearance. I do not know what the mention of sap meant. If you were relating to other species or applications or not. Ipe does not have sap but is loaded with natural oils. Anyone who has worked with a fair amount of Ipe will notice the yellow powder and either reddish brown or green flecks in the wood. This is natural to this species however, like the sap and resins in pine this will not go away by sanding. Unfortunately, board replacement is the answer here as well. I believe Ken was beginning to allude to it but, this is probably the most maintenance free decking option and still have wood. This is it's true marketability as a decking option.

The PWNA Kitchen Exhaust Certification will also be available at this time. There is a possibility of two other courses to be offered. If they are it would be "Pump Repair and Maintenance" and "House and Building Cleaning." Postings, e-mails, newsletters, etc. will be sent out through the next few months.

I am curious as to the recommendation with WTW. Obviously I do not use the product but have heard many recommendations. I happen to like penterating oils as I have had success with these in the past. I recognize that there is always new technolgy and much to learn. As I have read this thread I do not feel that the question of recoating wet on dry has been answered and I am curious to the answer. It has been widely accepted that sealers are applied wet on wet and that once applied and dried the surfaces are sealed and wet coats on dry surfaces are discouraged. Sealers and stains tend to repel themselves when this happens the product does not adhere as it should. The result is usually a sticky deck, premature failure, possibly a haven for mold and mildew, excessive peeling , and so on. Can WTW really be applied wet on dry and not have issues? If it can this would certainly be a selling feature and a potential upsell.

Hey Bruno! One of the best features of using Ready Seal and other parafinic oil based products is the maintenance feature. It really does not need to be stripped on reapplications. It is a light wash and recoat. The problem in todays market is that to meet VOC compliance many of the reformulations are more film forming than ever before. This creates many problems for the contractor who is trying to build a business and looking for repeat customers. The "real" key to choosing a sealer is how user friendly is it for later visits and reapplications. While longevity is a very important characteristic for both contractors and customers, it is my opinion, that what is best for the wood and continued maintence is the most important over longevity. There are ways to set this perception from the first meeting so that expectations between you and the customer are in line. Many of the products out there on the market do not perform as they once did and recoats leave less than desirable results. Since there is no one size fits all product, I believe you are using one of the best available. My advice would be to sell a discounted maintenance plan, if you aren't already.

Chris, It would be best if you called Regina Dudley in the PWNA office directly at 1-800-393-7962. She has all of the literature, sign up information and so forth. If you need further assistance feel free to contact me anytime.

According to the National Deck and Railing Association and the folks who put on Deck Expo, the market saw a big increase in the use of composites over the past few years. The percentages are actually broken out to about 80% continued wood use and about 20% composites and leveling off. The use of exotics and other species has increased. With this comes an increased need for knowledge both by the consumer before erecting a deck with "other" species and what the future care(with realistic expectations) will be as well as for contractors as to how to maintain the wood. Wood is not going away at this point. Technology and "out of the box" thinking will help. It is amazing that at the Forest Products Laboratory that there is a product that was put on "dirty" wood 30 years ago and still to this day looks as if it were recently done. This was a red opaque finish. I seriously doubt that products used today would do just that. Maybe we have gone too far in what goes into the coatings that we have made them nearly impossible to work with. They do not perform in the ways needed to achieve optimal results. Dealing with weather conditions can be very difficult. I have seen many contractors go to add on for this area. Lighting, caps, repairs, railing replacement, cob blasting, and much more to keep steady work until the weather is appropriate. Don't be giving up on me now Diamond Jim!

Morgan, I wish in hearing from you again it was with better news. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. I hope the updates keep showing continued improvement!

Thank you all very much. Spent a quiet day hunting and dinner with family. Been pretty sick for the past month so it was a joy to get out and relax and take a day for myself. __________________

Scott, I hope you have a great day, Happy Birthday!

Announcement: Use of PWNA Logo This to announce that in order for anyone to use the PWNA logo, for any reason, they must be a member in good standing. If you are not a member using the logo for marketing in any way you must cease and desist from this action when your membership is deactivated within 30 days. If you are in contracts with phonebooks or other marketing where there will be use of the logo you are obligated to keep your dues current. Failure to do so will result in action, which may also include legal recourse, by the PWNA. The PWNA logo has a value to members who pay dues as they attempt to seperate themselves from their competition. Use of the logo by non-members illegally will not be tolerated.

Wood Boot Camp in Shamong, NJ NOV. 5th&6th This is an opportunity to attend the Wood(only) Boot Camp in NJ. There is still time left to register and attend. Demos are added at this location. The address is 152 Indian Mills Rd. Shamong , NJ 08088. If there are any others interested or have questions please contact the PWNA at 1-800-393-7962 or myself at 1-866-440-3325 or by e-mail. __________________

The cost is $650.00/includes test for members The cost is $900.00/includes test for non-members If you do not want to take the test and get the certification it is $400.00 for members(class only) and $550.00(class only) for non-members

In regards to height work on commercial work I rent lifts or use scaffolding if necessary. For residential this is not usually an option as the cost would price you out of the job.

There ain't noth'in wrong with that, JeffW!

This is really getting detailed now. You guys are getting hung up on pricing and how many people are being used. It really doesn't matter as far as pricing if I am making money. Let me try this approach, if the going rate is $500 for any service or job that one does. Then from that you start deducting your controllable and fixed expenses, whatever you have left is your profit. You will have to pay rent, electric, phone, insurance etc. some of which is a fixed expense and some, or a portion is controlled. Labor is a controllable expense. How I run my business may be different from you but it doesn't change the price of the job(there are variables in pricing but relatively the same). So let's take that $500 job and it takes you all day to do that job by yourself. You have reduced a lot of expenses and you walk away with a good portion of that. Now I come in and do two of those jobs a day with an employee that cost me $100/day. I take that $100 off the $1000 and I am left with $900 with a few dollars more in expenses related to having the employee but, at the end of the day who has more dollars in their pocket me or you? Same is with the house washing. Taking someone's example of 3-4 hours to do a house washing by themselves they would gross $600 at the end of the day(if they do two houses). Me with my helper get three houses done I gross $900 and pay someone $100.00 for the day. In the end I have more dollars in the bank. With two people you are working safer and more productively for more money, not less. Also in regards to pricing there is not one of us that does not give discounts for more frequent cleanings. This is how you bid jobs successfully and create more income with less work. Take flatwork for instance, I give a one time, or initial price, then I give pricing that is tiered for monthly, quarterly, bi-annually, etc. so that in the end they see a savings per cleaning if they do it more often. Going back more often is easier to clean and you can afford to pass on the savings that it will save you in time and effort. What I am saying here is many contractors who wash homes do not even use this approach. If you were to charge $300 for a house and they got it done every four years how much money will you charge or make in four years? Do you think they will even call you again? I tell the customer that it is $300 now and if you do it every year it will be $250.00 and your house will always look this way. If you wait two years it will be $275. If you wait after that I am sure there will be a price increase and you will probably pay more like $350. This creates a maintence plan for the customer, increased traffic for me, upsell potential on later work(driveway, deck, pool, fence, etc), and I put more dollars into my account, use these jobs to fill schedules, add value to my business, and when I go back I can clean less agressively and rely on other equipment like X-jets and such to do the cleaning. FYI- In my area I am aware of my competition but I would like to think they are trying to keep up with me! I do not worry too much about them. Now I am giving away too much for free! Send checks to ...

Tony, you have seen my posts over the years about the least amount of pressure possible to do the job. I even mentioned it in this thread. What I am saying is 1500-2000psi is not that bad from a ladder. I did not say in every instance and all the time. So to answer your question, yes I am positive and I am sure others have and do the same thing. I will also "guarantee" that you from the ground and me actually getting up close and personal seeing the actual results of my work that I am comfortable saying that I "know" that I am doing a better job. From the ground you can only assume that you are.

Hey Barry, we aren't arguing. This is a good discussion. Forget experience too, We all learn from a good discussion like this how others perform there work. Please do not stop posting, I may learn something as well. Safety harnesses are used when we need to go on a roof. I always use two man crews when ladder or height work are an issue. Rinsing from a ladder around 2000 psi isn't too bad, you should be very careful in reaching out is all. It is better to move the ladder as necessary. The ladder actually gets me above a 90 degree angle from the siding. It reduces the need for spraying more directly under the lip, seams, and weep holes. Harder with out pictures.

I did forget, there are two people on these jobs. Big information that I left out! Sorry.