ShineBrite LLC

Thanks Beth for the very good info. My tests with AC on the composite have failed. Will most likely turn to a product made for it, AND approved by the manufacturer. (Gee, that might be smart) I have seen some sealers, but not any stains that I recall. Looking for anyone with experience with this....?????

I have a love/hate relationship with composites. We have a lot of Trex and EverGrain here. Both are basically the same thing, just brand names. I have seen screened porches with all manner of stains that are impossible to remove. EverGrain literature for care of the stuff says to remove spills promptly. If koolaid stains it, you know deck stains will - at least good oil base ones will. I have several boards with AC on them now and am getting closer to marketing the service. There are some sealers out there marketed for composites already and I'd like to check those out as well. Extreme How To published some good articles on the stuff and I've shared the info with many customers thinking of using it. Here's the link... A Closer Look at Composite Decking | Extreme How To, DIY - Do it Yourself, Home Improvement, Home Decorating

Depending on your specialty and target audience, look for other web sites and local publications that are on line and see about establishing links through those. One may be chamber of commerce, or local service listings in your areas. My local demographics are practically useless, as I cater to retirees and vacation home owners that do not live in my area, so yellow pages and local classifieds don't pay off for me. Linking to online service locators, real estate agencies and on line publications leads a lot of customers to my site and generates about 60% of my business. My degree is design with marketing and communications and I spent 15 years behind a computer. Although I do my own design work, I still pay someone else to do the website. I pay $120 a year for him to maintain domain and post/change as needed. Well worth it. It's not exactly as I'd like it, but still well worth it.

I am approaching three years with Armstrong Clark and will stick with it. I have posted several times here on the Grime Scene about my use of AC and I think I have some of the older, if not oldest jobs with it. When I was searching everywhere for a good product to offer my customers, I acquired as many samples from as many companies as I could over a year's time - after being burnt with easily accessible local stuff like Cabot's and SW. What struck me initially was the application. Consistent and good penetration. Here's the most impressive part, and the part that speaks worlds about the AC company: Jake Clark flew from CA to AL to see his product on PT pine and how it's holding up. According to the AWPA I'm right here in the "severe-high" red zone for wood deterioration, and 99% of the decking here is fast-growth pine. Not a good combo. Jake flew here to see how the AC was working in the toughest environment (by AWPA) on what I'd consider the cheapest decking material known (PTP). Jake and I, along with Chad Gillikan, publisher of "Extreme How-To" mag, spent all day touring about a third of the 30 or so decks/docks done with AC around this area. I see that AC has surpassed RS in the poll. It was not in the '08 poll so I guess it's catching on. I think AC is a good product for both the contractor and the client. A product that applies right, looks good, does what it claims, and is backed by good people. I am very comfortable selling this to my customers, and that makes my job easier.

I've been a while since last posting, sorry to have lost contact - got injured and have also been really busy. Does anyone here have experience with any stain/seal products for synthetics? We have mainly PT pine here and a lot of people are going to the synthetic blend lumber that is 5/4 x 6" and resembles the PT pine decking. Some names are Trex and TimberTech. I've been looking at various products and want to market this service. I've seen a handful of options and I'd like to know what's been tried with what results. I have a feeling I'm going to have start requesting samples and trying them - should have already done it. Maybe someone can at least start me off on a good heading. Any help is greatly appreciated. Alan

Thanks MudDuck. I've had bad experience with the SW deckscapes in Water and oil. Might as well be buying thinned down paint. I think I posted in that thread you mention. I'm seeing (and cleaning) a lot of the composite decking here. The main brand is EverGrain and Trex. Lousy stuff, but I understand why people want it over treated pine. I picked up some scrap today that will be subject to my evil experiments. AC will be the first stuff I try, I want to see how the oils act on it. Low today of about 31... High in the mid 60s. Pretty rare to get snow in AL. We get a dusting here and there and manage to roll up these snow men that are full of straw and leaves. Redneck snowmen. HA

I would have never thought to try SW water base on the stuff. Thanks for your reply. I'm going to start experimenting soon.

Good grief, I cant help myself here, I gotta reply. SW DecksScapes semi in water or oil can be like trying to spread muddy water. On darker tints it applies ok, but on lighter tints the pigment doesn't seem to mix with the base. On the one deck I had a good experience with on application, it was worn off in traffic areas within 10 months. For solids I like just fine.

I wish I had read this forum earlier. One guy I have done a lot of work for is a lumber importer and has a slew of various woods on his decks and dock. He decided Penofin was the way to go and for the past two seasons I have stripped and reapplied it at his request. Looks great for the summer lake season, then turns black by late fall. Really hard to remove. I think it's time to talk him into something different. Maybe TWP200, from what I see here. He has sections of Spanish cedar, cumaru, ipe, and some other stuff can't spell. I spoke to Armstrong Clark abouth this particular job and Jake claims the AC will not blacken. I have added copper naphtenate to sealers before and I may try it here as well. Maybe try a few different ideas on different sections if the guy will let me.

I bought mine from Amazing Machinery. 21hp vanguard with comet pump. 6gpm, 4000psi. on a 10ft trailer with a horizontal burner and 225 gal tank. I bought the startup package you can see on the web site. It has about 500 hrs on it now, mainly deck work and flat work. I like the dual lance wand for wood work. I have added to it and have 450ft of pressure hose, 250ft of craftsman rubber garden hose and a 24" surface cleaner along with the 20" whisper wash. And a little more plumbing. I use a home made chemical applicator made from a big wheeled handtruck, 15gal drum, marine battery and 5gpm delevan pump and 60ft of hose. Use an X-jet a lot, too. I run an f250 regular cab with ladder rack and a lot of junk in the bed. I carry ladders from 6ft to 40ft and do everything from gutter and window cleaning to decks and docks and commercial flat work. Wood is my specialty and favorite work.

I like this post. Looks like some of the stuff I see around here. Even fairly new Woodscapes jobs can just melt off with a drift of sodium hyd cleaner getting on them. I was doing decks on a $3mil house the other day and let some cleaner splatter on the siding. Pulled off a pc of the shingle siding, had SW match it and touched up. Looked perfect after it dried. Not the first time and won't be the last.

I need to get by my oldest deck and take some pics. It's over two years. It's Oxford Brn semi solid. I will post pics when I get them.

Thanks friends!

I can picture some judge saying that... He must have been real late to a few parties. That's funny, man. Bet family court could cause a keen feeling of mental unease. A keen feeling of mental unease, as of annoyance or embarrassment, caused by failure, disappointment, or a disconcerting event: To her chagrin, the party ended just as she arrived. (and we have to add: 'cause everybody there saw her comin) Now something serious - What are some names of products that are hybrid alkyd acrylics? I've used Bond's One Time in the past - I know it's an acrylic resin petrification agent - is that what we're talking here??

We wash HP fairly regularly as well, but all of it is painted. So it depends on the condition of the paint for us. HP WILL degrade without a coating - eventually.

I've got decks going on 2 yrs with AC. The oldest has Oxford Brn - (yes, the color called stinky in another thread). My largest qtys have been rustic brn and mtn cedar with woodland brn running 3rd. Rustic will lap if you cut in on full sun days probably more than others for some reason. I'm with Beth on the whole board at a time deal usually. On days that are not hot/full sun or on covered wood however, I can cut in 4 or 5 boards easily with most AC. Especially the semi-solids. That's one reason I choose AC to begin with, time to work it and make it look great.

From what I see, our friends out west and up north don't use much treated pine. That's mainly what we have down here in dixie. I posted some pics of woodland brown and mountain cedar on treated pine in the thread called "Armstrong Clark semi solids"

I actually met the guy over Sonic remodels here in AL when they were remodeling our local grease pit. They were installing the pressure wash units in it. He saw my truck and asked for a quote so the place could start fresh for turning the cleaning over to in house. He gave me a list of stores/towns to quote with upcoming remodels. We talked about the employee use of those things and he said they basically burn up the pumps the first couple of uses and then they go back to thier old way of cleaning - NONE. They didn't go for my really reasonable figures. He told they were too cheap to do much. I'll avoid them unless I get really slow.

One of the worse I've had was when the customer insisted on a Behr semi trans water base on new treated pine railing. Like pushing muddy water. I checked stripping mystery stain, but I'd have to agree with all the other comments as well. Especially the weather related ones.

Here are some more pics of AC semi solids on treated pine. One is Mtn. Cedar and the other is Woodland Brown. Both one coat. (no spray, except that lattice work with the Mtn Cedar) I've done two Oxford Brown decks. It has it's place. By far the most popular choices around here are Mtn Cedar, Woodland Brown and Rustic Brown Semi trans. I have a job coming up in Driftwood semi trans. Never used it other than creating samples, so I look forward to seeing the results.

Man, I have to chime in on this one, just to blow off some steam. I've had that near exact scenario and one similar this year, both on the biggest jobs I've quoted yet... My specialty is deck and dock work.. 1) Big job - 900 feet of 8' wide boardwalk with 14 docks attached, 150' of walk with steps to a pool area with huge pergolas and big gazebo. All to be cleaned and sealed. Written proposal with bid, schedule, etc given to owner's association president. My quote was cut to the quick, I wanted the job and the "after" photos, and had already done three of the resident's large decks there. They were very happy. I lost to an owner who rented a PW and supposedly did it for $2000!!!!!!!! I can't wait to go see this!!. 2) HUGE job. Over 35,000 sq ft of docks for a retirement community. Big company (not naming it here, because I do a lot of work for them anyway) - Had to supply written proposal outlining all chemicals used, stains, MSDS, product sheets, qtys, etc, etc.. Several pages, hours of work measuring and working on this bid. They took all my info, gave it to the in house painter supervisor and then actually told me they did that and were going to handle it in house using my methods and info. WOW. My deadline, had I gotten the contract, was Easter. It's still not done. HA.

Hey Michigan - I'm 5'10" AND 165LBS. AND my 24' aluminum extension extended out past 14' or so absolutely kills me - so you're right. That's why I always try to keep a big dumb guy employed!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA But seriously - both tools have their place. I'd recommend having both an extension wand and X-jet. A lance extension also helps on the X-jet sometimes.

One of my regular clients owns a lumber co that imports exotics. His decks and docks are combos of Ipe, cumaru, cumbaru, pt pine, spanish cedar and synthetics. Sort of a big experiment I guess. He has using pennofin that he buys himself on all the hardwoods, but it has turned dark on the cedar twice. He gave me some Ipe boards to try the AC on, but I have not done it yet. I need to try it and see... will post again. Maybe I'll get to it this weekend since this has come up.

I had to post again after looking at Rick's photos closer. I guess it's the difference in what you are used to using. I have left some laps with AC and it's easier to do on really hot days in full sun. I try to not get but maybe 5 boards ahead in my cutting in to prevent this. In the shade or on cooler days it's not a big deal. In AL it can be 80 and low humidity one day, and be 98 with 97% humidity and no clouds the next.

As far as semi-trans, I've used around 30 gallons or so of Rustic Brown and about 15 of Natural. I like using the semi-solids and have used more of those. I'll attach some pics of a Rustic Brn job finished last month. There were three docks at this place, too, but I didn't take pics of those. I back brush immediately as needed for puddles and runs - the obvious. Otherwise I'll let it sit a few minutes and see what needs it on floor boards. As far as clean-up, my brushes sit in it most of the time and I use a little paint thinner between colors. Airless sprayer cleans up fine with a strong mix of stuff like purple power. I have not used 2 coats on any job with AC. I just edited this after I read the last post again - I did over apply the AC on some places on that covered dock shown in the pics posted earlier. Some of the covered part never gets any sun and I didn't back brush like I should have. The next day it was still wet and I knew I had messed up. Luckily I was able to brush it out hard and it looked fine later.