topcoat

I dont get this. This whole thread. I'm looking at the title, the pictures and the content, and its just not making sense. But I cant stop laughing at Ken and Chris long enough to put it all together.

There was a thread going on today about avg sale. That must be what you are thinking of.

That cant be right Chris. That must have been an old post.

People can say what they want about Daniel Tambasco. I think the dude is a hoot. I like him. Theres a phrase for all this, but I'm its just not coming to me.

I see. If the lamppost repair was an extra that they requested while you were doing the previously estimated work, I wouldnt have gone sf on it. Its a specialty, isolated set of services. Your sf pricing for the deck is based on an entirely different set of processes. Honestly, when a customer requests something unusual, and especially something we havent done before or dont do much of, I always reply t and m on it, and if it doesnt fly thats just fine. I will pm you on the other stuff. I didnt mean to ruffle feather on any of it. Your posting here and at the org bbs lately has been engaging and interesting, so its just got me thinking out loud. At the risk of sounding like Terry, Thank You.

Oh, hello Chris.

Dan I am being serious here, and if you perceive it any other way, please do not respond at all, but, please tell me that this is not the same lamp post job you were posting about and you charged per sf for the lamppost restoration? Again, if I am wrong on this or if it something you dont want to discuss, please walk from this post. But I am serious. I didnt understand that whole theory of sf pricing on the lamppost repair.

Dan I bet you could tell me exactly how many times. And if that is really happening alot, which is a relative term, I would consider the possibility that your website url and/or business name are not easy enough for them to remember, if they have to wait to see your truck on the road to find your website, thats actually bad news. I am confused by your marketing presentation but as long as the public is not, thats all that matters.

Sorry Dan, I thought from your earlier post when you said it was a test vehicle that you meant that you hadnt found something worked yet, and I was empathizing, and Fenner responded in kind, that its not really an essential or reliable lead generator for me, and it doesnt have to be. I am glad to hear that it has helped you achieve your current level of success. I am comfortable with my trucks as they are, and with the way my overall marketing strategies are working.

Not sure who this guy is. But it might be the funniest first post I have ever seen.

Ok, on further review and a quick run through the NE Digi Seasonal Analysis Software, I believe those pictures to have been taken in the last 4 weeks. The curiousity is that Dan doesnt have the studded snows on the van yet.

Oooh good catch Fenner. Whats Tambasco trying to pull here with the dated photo? :D

Dan Thanks for not backing your truck into they yard putting the ladder on it. That is a case where the sky hook comes in crazy handy.

When you say test vehicle, do you mean from a marketing standpoint? If thats what you mean, I have experimented with different things on our 3 trucks, phone number, website, different visuals, etc. Its good to experiment, but not stray to far from the core. I hate to use the term branding, because we are all so small that I am not sure its the right word, but it is good visibility and name awareness. Some guys claim (note choice of word) to get tons of business from their truck. Kelly from the other paint forum was one, and no one knows what ever happened to him, but in my experience since '96 of having well graphiced trucks all over the roads every day, I am not entirely sold on it as a marketing tool that will make the phone ring, because I have had leads that I can count on my fingers over the years that were directly attributable to it. But I do think it conveys a professional image and is good exposure. Curious to hear how your experimenting goes.

Dan Whats the little vehicle decal on the hood of your van?

I was out in Montana for the Thanksgiving holiday. My father in law told me a joke. An 84 year old gentleman takes his 23 year old wife to the doctor and says "She's pregnant and we'd like a checkup." The doctor looks at the couple and says sure I'd be happy to but first I have to tell you about my nephew's recent hunting trip. He went into the jungle of Africa and after hours in the brush, not seeing anything, lo and behold, 4 elephants come wandering through. So he takes out his umbrella, takes careful aim and shoots down the first elephant, a clean kill in just one shot. The old man looks at the doctor, embarrassed for him, and says "Sir, with all due respect, you must be mistaken, you cant kill an elephant with an umbrella."

I'm not convinced its time to declare victory over this thing yet.

Dan Your analogy to a ipe deck builder is a good one. I have talked to my builders about the fact that we are an 85/15 model and builders are generally more 50/50 labor to materials. They can only mark their materials up so much before they price themselves beyond all the other guys building at a standard markup. In the end, they both deliver the same ipe deck. I dont think this is the answer. For painters, I am pretty ok with the idea that we sell time. The answer is to sell more peoples time than just your own. A best case of 2000 man hours per year is very limiting. You know how many times Brian laid out different scenarios showing how numbers can shift pretty quickly.

Dan I think there are some holes in the bucket on that one. Your gross dollars would jump big time, but so would your material costs. Yes, you would enjoy greater material markup potentially, but take Aura for instance. Its about the priciest interior paint. It retails for about $60. No one gets the same buying power on it that we get on Regal or Super Spec. So, you can buy Aura for $50, the homeowner can walk in and by it for $60. How much can you mark up your $50 cost before it becomes self defeating and you go back to using Regal or Super Spec (except for those cases where you need the labor savings of Aura coverage) and enjoy a very healthy markup? Your source may be right. Speaking just for me, I spent about the first five years in business thinking too much in terms of gross. It really doesnt matter. You are enough of a numbers guy to be able to figure out the sweet spots between gross and net. For the sake of easy numbers, say you grossed (sales) $300k this year at a net profit of 10% or $30k. Next year sales go down 33% to $200k but net profit increases to 15% or $30k. I know which year I would rather be having. My goal is to be as or more profitable doing less volume. Just like Ken Fenners goal is to get his marketing budget down to 0%.

Dan, there is no one in the business that is rooting more than I am for you to become the going rate. Good point about tracking the advertising and perception of value. Thats huge.

My point exactly. And then the sponge becomes paralyzed. I think its time for an intervention for Dan. He was thinking that he cannot operate for less than about $63.75/man hr. He hasnt had a banner year and we all have concerns about next year. Now, you are suggesting that if volume is down, he should raise prices. Every bbs on the internet will be thanking you for this within 6 months. I am just thanking you a little ahead of the curve.

Remember... "It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay to much, you lose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot, it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin 1819-1900

Ken You know I love you, but I really think that you are the worst thing that ever happened to Daniel Tambasco. :growl:

Dan Granted, I dont know much about your specific market, but I think you should include in your planning a proactive charge starting by about August 1 of each year to load up Nov-March with interior painting...residential repaint and any other interior niches you can think of in your market. I keep my "b team" crew going all winter on resi repaint work and toss them in with my nc guys as needed through the winter. I would never advocate relying on resi repaint work as a business model but its possible to plan ahead enough in the marketing moves to start lining them up by mid October if you are putting yourself in front of them in August. Especially if you are solo operating in the winter, it seems this would be do able. Honestly, I think the part you have to work out is the numbers analysis that you do. If you are convinced that you can't turn the key on the truck for less than $60/hr, you will have a hard time. If you find the sweet spot where you are consistently out there and netting a nifty little 10-20% in the winter, then you are on your way. I think you put yourself out of circulation. When you are out there, just by virtue of being out there (profitably) of course, you create your own little supply/demand microcosm.

Dan I dont worry too much about gross sales. I would welcome a drop in gross sales as an opportunity to tighten things and have a better net profit. It is entirely possible to end up much better off doing lower gross. Also, I am very surprised that you would forego salary. To me, thats non negotiable. I wouldnt recommend that you do that. Unless your salary is absurd and you reduce it, which is probably not the case.