topcoat
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Posts posted by topcoat
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Very interesting discussion, guys, and Rick you are right, I speak from little Parrafin experience.
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Congrats Beth, you must be very proud!
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The real question and mystery is this. Will "re-moisturizing" this cedar with enough paraffin oil help to "flatten", or at least stop any further shrinkage. Not sure if the oil can "re-swell" the cedar, but am confident it will help slow down or alleviate further shrinkage and warping.
Rick
Not so sure about what you just spoke. Re-oiling might help against shrinking. But in this situation, that old rough sawn is going to drink up alot of oil and create a dimensional stability issue (since the wood is not back sealed) that will likely result in cupping.
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Rick
Ten years ago I used to vow that I would never paint cedar. We have done it many, many times in the past ten years. When that cherry was broken, I swore we would never paint mahogany, which we do on every job now. New wood is one thing. Old wood is very much another. I would love it if my house looked like that. It sure does call into question your responsibility as a woodie. We both know that if you dont do it, some jamokey will do it for $400 and wreck the place forever. If you do it, at least it will be done properly and thoughtfully with a wood loving sensibility and appreciation for the sacred species that you are preserving. Ultimately, I agree with you, it is a big mistake to mess with that stuff. They don't grow em like that anymore. Just dont tell him that he could pull that stuff off and sell it for about $9/lf. Next thing you know that badboy is wrapped in vinyl.
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I'll let some of the other heavy hitters weigh in.
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Come on woodies! Where are you? Fenner? Petry? Tambasco? Diamond? MM? Beth?
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Rick
That looks great. Be sure to post some oil pics, that should be dynamite.
We started a new wrestling match with ipe last week. One house, 5 decks, one screened porch with deck, all ipe. Not a sikkens strip. Lets see how good people's eyes are...is it a stain strip or is it just good old fashioned grime?
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BTW - the 'technician' vs. the 'business-man' aren't my original thoughts they are Ken Fenner's. He opened a lot of our eyes.
True dat! +1
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I will say it is not in the customers best interest to do Ipe or other very hard hardwood in the fall. Spring is best so they can watch it fail slowly and better ! After winter and the snow cover " what happened to my deck" ?Large decks I use Ready Seal and on smaller ones I try out many different approaches with added Drying oils . Also I have been changing people to just cleaning and a buff on IPE. My person favorite..............
That certainly would be the perception of better bang for the buck. This particular customer is a second home owner. They leave in mid Oct. You are right. My work will look great for them for about a month. Next April, we will do the dance again.
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Been doing it for 10 years with RS not removing the grey on Ipe. It's easier with a non- drying oil that only leaves pigment behind. There are many issues to contend with over the life of a maintenance plan on IPE ?Yes there sure are. I have been wrestling with one the past couple of days...improvising. Its an annual event.
Jim, whats your preferred oil on this substrate?
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With Ipe besides getting them to wrap their minds around the price issues it is extremely difficult to get them to accept what is actually going on with the wood or what needs to happen in way of prep for a chance of longer cycle between restaining. Last one awhile back, just consider it a consult, the guy had already done much of the testing for me. Main thing I think he never grasped was that once you take off all that sorta dingy/silver ugly dead/dry wood stuff, which I consider somewhat good and beneficial as a mechanical binder(for ipe anyways), you are right back to square one with oozing extracitives hampering yer coating or rather penetration. Did I mention this one before?,... feels like deja vu..sorry.. ;((guy had Fenner's stuff laying around...wonder if he's heard from this one)
I agree, there is a balance in there somewhere. I was messing with an ipe deck today with citralic. There is a point where you can tell with the wet citralic what it would look like with oil, even though it dries back to the silvery gray. Seems that you have to develop a whole different "eye" during the chems process with ipe than with any other species.
I've been down that road too many times where you go all the way, then sand, and end up at square one in the cycle. You may be onto something with that layer, when brightened gently, and low pressure rinsed thoroughly (no furring) might lend itself quite well to better absorption. Good call.
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I'm interpreting this more as in he is putting his own spin on the conventional wisdom he gathers here. There will likely be deets coming.
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PW-ing is an established discipline. It will be just fine. Sure there are bad practitioners, but same can be said of any group. Any profession will have its top performers who will succeed no matter what the obstacles, its middle who does just fine, and its bottom of the barrel that, well...you know. Like any business, its a matter of building yourself a ship that can withstand whatever kind of a hit comes along.
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I dont have a problem with it. Once you educate the customer to the point where they can wrap their mind around whats going on, its fine. It takes a couple years to get past the: "You mean to tell me there is no product that will hold up on this ipe that we paid $6/ft for?" Once you clear that hurdle, its all good and the deck is sweet every year.
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and pay, and pay, and pay...its so counterintuitive...the stuff is supposed to be low or no maintenance, which I guess it is if you just let it turn silver, but my customers dont seem to want that so we wrestle with the stuff (and all its ridiculous cousins; garrapa, cambara, etc) every year.
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Ah yes, the old photo shoot schedule, that always throws a wrench in the best laid plans. The ipe can definitely be stripped, just be prepared to do some sanding. Alot of sanding after. That was our experience after ramping up the naoh on it. You can make it look great. Then, sell them an annual maintenance program on the deck. It will need it. As you know, the stuff has the structural density of steel. Doesnt want to cooperate much with penetrators.
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Rick
Let it sit for another 6 months and mother nature will do half the job for you. We have been stripping sikkens lately. It is a particular pleasure that every woodie should have the experience of. Ours is pretty weathered but still a chore. I'd be happy to share with you what worked for us. We also have a wrap around ipe deck on our project that was in similar condition to what yours appears to be. The good thing about ipe is that it rejects most everything, so it doesnt look like too tough of a strip. Your verticals will be hit or miss.
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Gutt
The recession is kind of like a bowl of ice cream man you know what I'm sayin? Think of your favorite two flavors and pack em into a big fat bowl, not with spoons but with a real ice cream scooper and let em sit there and acclimate to room temperature where the top layer starts to get soft and the center is still solid ice cream. Then just start peeling thin layers off the top where its getting soft and when it gets down a little, pack it with your spoon so the whole bowl of ice cream is like one big soft ball and then roll it over so the bottom comes to the top. That side thats been in the bottom of the bowl is like soft serve. Its great. Then, just repeat process. Thats how surviving the recession is.
This isnt meant to be taken literally, its more like metaphor, or parable, heck maybe even double entendre but I think you will gain something good from this. Something good.
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Are you as confused as I am?
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No worries, Tony.
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Is there something you didn't get, Terry?:lol:
Whats the frequency Kenneth?
It was a nice little chat Ron and I had going...not sure what happened there.
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If you need anything Terry just hollar.?????
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I agree, Ron, that fundamentally everyone has similar goals, and everyone wants the industry to succeed as a collective of individual successful businesses. I dont know if its just a whole lot of internet balls, hopefully alot of the shenanigans dont translate in real life.
Albany 2010 will likely be my next event. Hopefully the waters arent so muddy by then!
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I heard it was a great Event....It was a nice event. It was before the recent round of division and public, personal attacks in the industry. I was pretty pumped about seminars and rt's back in March, but lately not so much.
Frost
in Wood Cleaning & Restoration - Decks, Fences, etc.
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Its been raining for a week in Vermont. Its stops for a few hours, so things can start to dry, then starts again. Everything we need to finish is on the west side of every house, and there is snow on top of the mountains. Not good.