David Phillips

Hi Robin, You definitely have a mess on your hands, but don't panic. It can be fixed. Charlie is right (as he usually is). Your first step is to remove all the old coatings and get the wood prepped right. Even if it looks like all the old stain has weathered away, the pores of the wood are usually still clogged with old sealer just below the surface. This doesn't allow the new stain to penetrate properly and bond to the wood. Find a professional contractor in your area that specializes in wood restoration. They will know what to do, and a true professional will never compromise the job if the weather doesn't allow for the best results possible. Even if you do have to wait until Spring, the results will be well worth the wait. Keep us posted!

Definitely looks like years of over-applied acrylic sealer. Unfortunately pretty typical for Nashville aggregate. You could strip the old sealer off, but like Craig said, it's not a job you really want. Honestly the best thing you could do is tell the home owner to just wait a year or two and it will fail and flake off on it's own. Probably not what they want to hear, but their alternative is to pay you $2-$3 / sq.ft. to remove it, and that's probably not going to happen. If you want me to, I'd be glad to take a look at it with you. Might not actually be that bad in person.

Hey Charles, You have probably long since moved past this project, but I thought I would at least comment anyway. I have used SG several times in the past, and we even sold it for a while. It works really well, but is very pricey and somewhat slow. Most of our customers have switched to the "Nock-Off" stripper from Surf-Koat. It's still not cheap, but at contractor price it beats SG and works well.

Great read Craig! This is exactly the kind of education we need. Thanks for sharing.

With the Timber Oil, there shouldn't be any sanding needed. Just give it a light cleaning with a percarbonate wood cleaner or a weak bleach/water mixture to remove any mold, mildew or dirt, lightly pressure wash, then re-stain after it has thoroughly dried. This is the only application in my opinion where bleach should be used on wood. If you still have protective stain in the wood, bleach will do a safe job of killing any mold spores on the surface without harming the wood.

Hello Mike, Glad to see you are really taking the time to try and do the job right. When it all comes together, it will be well worth all your hard work. To me it sounds like the product you are using may not be getting the job done. I'm not familiar with the BM cleaner. Is it a one step product that contains both sodium hydroxide and citric acid? The cleaning process should be done in two steps. First a quality cleaner is applied (usually a sodium hydroxide or sodium percarbonate) then gently pressure washed off. The second step is the brightener (usually an oxalic or citric acid) which neutralizes the cleaner, restores a proper pH and gives you a bright better than new wood color. There are several great wood cleaners out there, and they will do all the hard work for you. If by some chance what you are using is a one step product, that is likely your problem.

Welcome aboard Jacob!

Well said AA! No matter what you choose to do for a living, you must study, learn and practice what you wish to be good at. Doctors are not born with a medical degree, just like cleaning and sealing contractors are not born with all the knowledge and experience they need to know what to do in every situation. This thread really sums up why we shut down out service company and got into training and product support. I spent years searching, learning, testing, cussing and learning things the hard way as we built our service co. We really had a passion to share what we had learned with other contractors. As you begin offering additional services, find partners you can trust and count on. From the distributor who supplies your product, to experienced colleagues, establish a network of pros you can call on at any time. Every job and situation is different, and they all require different products and equipment. Taking on something new is always hard because it requires stepping out of your comfort zone. My personal cell phone number is in my signature. Call me anytime day or night. That's what our company is all about, helping you be successful.

You pretty much nailed it Brad. Always use a pigmented product if at all possible. The pigment is what protects the wood from UV light. Follow Clark's lead. Find the product that works best for you and stand behind it!

Find out if it is actually a paint, or an acrylic concrete sealer stain. If it is a paint, be careful. They often don't bond as well as the acrylics, and are often less resistant to cleaning chemicals. With a surface cleaner, the trick is to slowly increase the pressure until you begin to blow chunks of paint off, then back it off a quarter turn. No, not really I'm just kidding. Don't do that!! If you do use the SC, just be very careful. Use warm water and low pressure. The safest thing to do would be to scrub it with a brush then gently rinse. What type of cleaner you need, will depend on if there are any stubborn stains. if it's just dirt, you may be fine with just water/surfactant. Do a test spot with whatever cleaner you plan to use, just to be safe. Most coatings will be fine with bleach/surfactants. I've also used used a percarbonate wood cleaner in similar situations with good (and safe) results.

Hey Keenan, Give me a shout. That's what we're all about. Helping guys get started. If you wanted to come down here, I'd be glad to line up a couple jobs for training. We would also be glad to come up to K and help you on anything you have lined up. You're in a sweet market that is totally under served! Heck, and I'm always looking for a good excuse to sneak off to the mountains and do a little fishing!

Here's the question I ask every PW'er ... Why would you not offer sealing services? You've already done the hard part of cleaning, why leave that extra $$$ on the table? It took us a while to figure out why some guys closed tons of sealing jobs while others hardly ever got a bite. The difference is in your marketing. If you advertise and market as strictly a cleaning company, the customers looking for the cleaning AND sealing services will always go with the other guy who addressed the sealing in their marketing as well. There is so much concrete, paver, stone and brick sealing business out there it will make your head spin. You just have to go after it. If you don't believe me, give Mike at Veteran PW a call. Mike was one of those guys who rarely got a bite, and now it's one of his biggest up-sells. With that said, be careful. There are a lot of products out there. Some good and some garbage. Every job and every situation is different. You always have to custom tailor each application to fit each customer's needs and desires. There is a lot to learn, but it will set you a step ahead of your competition.

Thompson's is not necessarily a "bad" product, its just a cheap, simple water-repellent. It's really not even in the same category with Ready Seal or any of the other professional grade stains. Take a couple minutes to explain the differences (and benefits) of using a quality pigmented product, and your customer will be thanking you for years to come. One of the hardest things we have to do everyday is fight the big $$$ spent by the big box stores on advertising their products. As for encountering Thompson's... that's a rare thing, since it doesn't stick around very long. Also, try to encourage them to wait at least 6 months before staining that new pressure treat. You will get much longer life out of your stain if you let it weather naturally before cleaning and staining.

No matter how many decks you've done or what your experience level, we all had to start somewhere. You're on the right track, just keep reading, learning and asking questions. Get you some old deck boards or fence panels and practice, practice, practice!

Oh Dear....

Hey Scott, as of May 2011 Bakers was VOC<250. Unfortunately, keeping with the theme of this thread, it is no longer the Baker's Gray Away I have loved for so many years. Dan, don't stop wishing on that star just yet... your wish might just come true. :zipit:

Ditto what Greg said. Sanding not only closes the pores, but it also creates a lot of heat which can melt the old solid-color garbage, allowing the sander to "smear" it into the pores of the wood. It's almost always a good idea to lightly strip and brighten after heavy sanding, even if it doesn't look like it needs it. AC and Ready Seal are both great products, but they both have different strengths and weaknesses, and like Rod said.. these aren't the same animals they used to be. Treat your decks like an alcoholic at a keg party. Let 'em drink all they want, you'll know when they've had enough. IMO people make way too big of a deal over "coverage rates". Every piece of wood is different. We've tested every product and application method imaginable, and the #2 rule of long stain life is always.. "the more you get in, the longer it will last". (of course #1 is Prep, Prep,Prep! )

No need to second guess yourself when you know you're right! Penetrating oil stains will ALWAYS last longer if the wood is allowed to naturally weather before staining. I love it when someone mentions pH. It is one of the most important factors in coating adhesion. Alkyds, Resins, Acrylics, Epoxies, etc. will all penetrate and bind best to a slightly acidic surface. Same rule applies to concrete, pavers, brick, stone and about anything else you can stain or seal. If I wanted to give something a second guess, it might be the rep that sent the article. :)

Wow! What a difference. Great Work! Was that stone previously polished before the first guy did his application?