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I haven't had experience with G. SHock, but I have seen G, Zap burn the finish at the recommended dilution rates. Have used ESPECS Ripper, which is the same as their Power Stroke (as far as I can tell), and it works well, but can leave areas on windows etch or streak glass. I have since stopped using thier products. For gutters, usually my house cleaning mix will do, but if not...I carefully mix a sodium Hydrox, dilution and brush on with a fine, tight bristled brush (12" to 18" wide)

I initially started using Wolman's Products about two years ago, b/c it was what my local dealer offered and it looked like a reasonably good product. I applied to a few decks and although no real issues witht he stain, preferences for color and other factors of what it is really doing, the "acrylic" scenerio etc. Next I found Cabot's (SPF) b/c of sheen based on a customer's request and applied to a few decks. The decks looked great and all have been very happy. I have since cleaned those since it has been at and over two years since application and all are holding up nicely. I did have to strip and reapply one area of Cabot's SPF b/c I did not like the way it looks when I cleaned it. BTW, it removed way too easier than I expected. I am currently using WTW and Ready Seal on every deck and like both much better than anything else I have used. I feel there benefits outway anything else I have used and have several more applications in the works for this month and next already.

I hear you on the tires Jeff, I had a tire shread on me theother week at 4 AM after working about 28 hrs straight! I had never had to use the jack in my truck and could not find it for about 30minutes of looking through the manual. I know it is hilarious now, but at the time I was cusing a blue streak. So I find the jack, but can't get to it! The seat is locked and I have to unload my truck to get behind the seat. Finally get it out and it looks like a Tonka Toy version of a jack. Find the spare and drop it....no problem. Getting the cap off of the tire (one of thos plastic deals) that was alomost RIPPED OFF b/c of no sleep and ill as a hornet by now. So I finally get under the truck, set the jack and try to raise the truck with this TONKA TOY thingy.......It doesn't go high enough!!! Just about this time the Highway Patrol pulls up and scares teh !@#$%^& out of me, as I think I am about to be run over by a car on I40. I'm raisng all H_LLL under the truck. Then I realize just how funny this has got to be from his perspective and sit back and we both have a good laugh. I might even wind up on one of those cops shows where the show the video of "The Idiot that can't change a tire at 4AM" Bottom line: Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself and know that things are really better than they may appear at that moment!!!!!

Shane, Great suggestion for checking. Sililcone leaves a residue that can be difficult to totally remove. I would expect it to take multiple applications of stripper and Be sure to rinse, rinse and rinse

THANK YOU!

Rick, Looks really nice. I know youre glad to be off the ladder. I spent about a month one day on a ladder and legs took a beating. Just cleaned up a deck today myself, will post some pics later. I had a 8-9' wand with about a 30 degree bend in it and could not hold it for long, I can imagine what you felt like after dealing with a 9 footer and 90 degree bend! Have you got a hot tub to soak in!!!

Rick, I have used ext ladder with stabilizers as previously suggested, but with an added security meaasure (especially if no help). Use a couple pieces of rebar, about 2.5' long and 3/8 diameter and bend one end in a large hook. drive them in the ground and on the bottom rung of the ladder. With the width of the stabilizers on the roof and the rebar at the bottom you are pretty secure. I'm not as bullet proof as i once thought I was either, ansd the knees sometimes get sore from shaking together. It's diffinately helps the mental side Good luck

Hey ya'll, Just wanted to benchmark some pricing on a fence estimate I did recently. Family wanted deck and fence priced separately to pick and or choose wi=hich project or for budget reasons. Fence is approx 5 years old in good condition, but has never been treated with anything (PT lumber). 345 lf at 5' height= 1725 sf X two sides= 3450 sf. I'm figurin a light strip to remove old wood fiber etc, neutralize and WTW appplied at about 150 sf/gal +-. Little to no sanding required/expected. Priced about $1.00 to $1.25/sf.....????? The deck is a totally different story. Lots of heavy lattace work,on the superstructure, railing and step rails... they want top, underside, multi tier step/deck approach about 12' off ground level. Home owner stained it themselves about 4 years prior woth SW oil based whatever. Total areas equal about 1600 sf (600 sf alone is lattace!!!). [ATTACH]4100[/ATTACH] I have done a number of these and know what it takes to get it done right. Just wanted to check in to be sure i am not overboard. Appreciate any feedback

Last year I had several large fences i got more than that for and they were very happy with results. Although, Most of what I get an opportunity for are not so willing to maintain their fence or deck. Hence, I wanted to verify pricing norms. Fencing is a bit easier than decks. Thanks Celeste/ Roger for your help.

Thanks Ken, I tried suggesting that replacing would be less expensive than trying to remove stain in all those nooks and crannies to the customer, but they did not want that even after I explained the price difference it would make, why etc etc.... I am not sure why someone would be so hung up on keeping some lattace vs replacing with new that would cost them less in the long run, takes less time to complete the work and overall job would look much better.

I have cleaned lattace several times before, but it was the thin cheap stuff and it is a MPITA. The underside of decks usually results in a few hot spots down the collar!!!

Shane, The strip is a light one only to help remove old fibers and general prep to good material. Then neutralize. That was my thinking anyway. Thanks for the replies Brent

I separate the cost for each fuel I use PW gas, Deseil and trk gas. Keep m,ileage etc and the account loves me and I get a big deduction. Its about 35 cent per mile, but if you keep trck of expenses they will usually exceed the standard 35 cents/mile

Just a little curious about those leaving the hose on the reel while you are washing something..... Are you using heated water when you leave the hose on, or just cold. If you leave it on and using heated water, I would think the hose would generate a lot of heat in the coil and damage or reduce the life of the hose?? The coiled hose with hot water running through it keeps the ehat in the center and gets hotter, thereby overheating the coating and redcung he life of the hose

ken, I am really surprised that you had that happen. I deal with ICE here locally, and he is the brother of ICE in Wilmington. I would think that he has no choice but to honor the original invoice, size etc for the machine you ordered. I would definitily make sure he upholds that. I am going to mention it to my local guy next time I see him. Good luck gettin gthis resolved, I am sure you will though.

Hey Rick, That was an awesome run through of info and I sincerely appreicate it. It was somethings I was definitely looking for. I have to admitt that I have tried many products for stripping acrylics, since it most of what I have done and most are barely acceptable, depending on your expectations. Have not tried the Cabot's stripper, but even the store rep. said that it was not as good as others on market and available at any price. I have faired well with a pricey Wolman's at one time ($18/gal), then with other's that are used frequently by those on this forum and are pleased with them. James, Thanks for the offer and I will try to get in touch soon. Thanks for detailed infomation on subject an dlook forward to more!! Sincerely

Here is the next decka nd fence project. There is about 345 lf of 5' fence that has not ever been sealed or coated and the deck has an acrylic, something orother on it applied by the homeonwer a few years back. The lattace work is the thicker type and is in relatively good condition except for stain. The steps are covered with indoor/outdoor carpet, yikes and liquid nails!!! Not sure best method for removing and addressing that. [ATTACH]3732[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]3733[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]3734[/ATTACH] Hope the pic post OK, I have trouble getting pics on here

Thanks Scott, Anyone have suggestions on all the lattace? I suggested replacing and staining the new, would probally be less expensive thant the time to strip, sand/detail and stain! There is about 625 sf of lattace (both sides) that have to be stripped, I was figuring about$2.50/ sf??? Is that too much or about right? Need other help with fence pricing. 345 lf of 5' high fence. Never stained or sealed, is in good condition. I figure needs good cleaning, brighten and stained. Question is, not sure where to price it in with other. Since it is not a heavy strip job, what would you recommend for a price range on the fence? Thanks for any feedback

Just completed a deck on a commercial job that had about 6 layers of solid black acrylic NIGHTMARE FROM H_____ and nonskid on top layer. Here are a couple of pics. Final has a nice coats of Ready Seal Dark red. Also stripped and stained front doors with MINWAX stain and all new brass hardware. Had to fabricate a jamb from red oak, you can't really see it in pics, but it turned out nice. [ATTACH]3735[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]3736[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]3737[/ATTACH]

Hey Ken and Rick, This is extactly the type of discussion I have been wanting around pro/cons for acrylic vs oils. I have been working on decks for about 2.5 years in the PW industry, so I do not have the experience you guys have and want to learn more from it. All I have seen in this area have been acrylics, I assumed it was the norm for whatever reason. Not too long ago I found this forum and began to research and try oils and why people use them, longevity, performance, type of oil base and why and why nots for each. I like the oils that I have tried and I need to understand more about maintenance. I have read through many posts, manufacturer claims etc and understand that as a general rule of thumb that you wash and appply light coat every year as part ofthe maintenance. This is great from a marketing stand point and keeps you in front of your customers. I also understand or have had feedback from some that maybe feel they are not getting $$ worth if I have to return each year. But I think I need more on how to address that with more education of the coatings. I sincerely know what a PITA it is to remove acrylic, it is all I have done from day one. I posted some pics of an upcoming porject that is yet again acrylic. I know they are going to hate the price, but it also has a lot of lattace work. Thank you for your patience in previous part of the post and additional information. Brent

.Ken, IMHO, I think we need to determine why the coating failed for one. I have been putting together a list of questions that would apply that can help lead to a possible reasons. One major pitfall to any porject is not to address and understand the root cause. If the root cause can be identified, potential solutions can be formed, trialed and confirmed or not. This is where all the experience on this forum can provide invaluable feedback to help this industry move forward. If we approach problem/solution scenerios in a methodical way, we get solid reputable answers to act upon. If you really would like to see PW as an industry step up a notch in the respect arena within the industry, from the homeowner perspective etc, using a uniform method of problem analysis to not only help PW's as "installers" but also the coatings industry--whoever the manufacturer! Just think of the number of professional PW's installing coatings around the country and how the feedback on performance of that coating would be valuable if collected presented in the proper format!

I have applied Cabot's SPF on better than a dozen decks, various sizes, conditions etc. and used the same cleaning technique (as best possible) on each. I was concerned abou the posts that stated they had issues with it coming up. All of the decks are nearby. So I called or went by about 8 of those I did and all feedback was that everyone was very pleased with the look, performance etc of the finished product. No indications of problems, in a little over 2.5 years on the oldest. (Thank goodness) Several asked that I come by and do a rinse for a spring cleaning kind of thing, and all were very appreciative for the followup/courtesy call. I would be interested in trying to pinpoint what exactly is the issue that was had by those where it is failing. To me to just say it is a poor product, it does not last etc is not helping to understand how to work with the product. Please don't get me wrong....just wanting to be non-subjective and professional about a product. With all the experience on this board, I am sure we could figure out what the real issue is, educate each other and move forward.

I was in the Cabot's dealership near me a couple of weeks ago. He would not even endorse the Cabot's brand strippers based on performance and feedback from those that have used them. I have applied Cabot's SPF to a couple of decks early last year, so far no issues, but it sincerely concerns me that there have been problems with peeling within 1 year! Was the deck that peeled so prematurely one that had the coating applied while the deck was actually wet? If so, do you know what the moisture content was at time of application? When I researched it's use, I was actually directed to apply on a pre-wetted surface! I was sceptical about doing that and went with my gut feeling and applied to dry surface instead.

In a previous poll " Does the public consider PW a serious profession?" 10%-yes, 42%-No and 37%- split Also, many have stated that most customers do not know about PWNA, or other organiations that sponser training etc. When we have the few moments in front of a prospective customer to inform them about training aquired, experience either through portfolio,photos, sales pitch verbage, etc certifications may be one added benefit that will hold their attention a bit longer. I do agree certification are only as good as the paper they are written on with respect that the effort an individual put towards acquiring, maintaining and enhancing that part of the business they are invloved in. Although I may not have the experience many of you have, I respect that you have learned through experience and sought out a better and possibly standardized way to perform in this business. Certifications help set the bar for standards, but in my humble opinion, you can't have several different certifying agencies. If there is to be credibility obtained through certifications, there needs to be uniformity in the guidelines, content, objectives and management. and That credibility will only be proven over time.

I know when I started a few years ago, I did not know how to price and I researched through internet and a friend that had done the work several years before gave me a few guidelines, but were obsolete. I did not know about the forum or others, where to get chemicals, parts etc at reasonable pricing. I did some work here and there and did an analysis of my costs, times involved, materials, and expected amount per hour based on some of the research and information. I had a couple of people in the business, locally talk to me vaguely about pricing, the business etc but too many were cautious about me and my questions. I have learned more from this forum than I expected and still dig through posts, photos etc and try to update my thinking, practices, chemicals etc each week to build a stronger foundation for business, with the best possible results. I know I still have more to learn about this business and I frequently run into prospective customers that say: I have a guy that does it for half that amount, he is a full time ________ and does this (PW) on the side." or something similar. Well, there have been many posts around that, and other similar comments, no need to rehash. They really don't bother me too much as I am more comfortable in what I know I should be charging for my service based on what I have learned here and with more experience. There are other ways to educate and demonstrate what quality cleaning with the right equipment and chemicals will do.