Pams Pressure & Clean

All, I would like to take the opportunity to weigh in on this topic as I have been named a player in it. Hopefully, I can fill in some of the blanks, shed light on some bits of dim information and otherwise prove to answer some questions. FYI, .... I'm probably going to get long here so there it is, you've been warned. First I'd like to thank those who have called and e-mailed me recently to ask about the goings on. I hope I have helped you and also look forward to hearing from anyone else who wants to talk. As to the formation of a new org, I'd like to say this..Thanks for thinking of us. It really means a lot that some folks think us worthy. Second, be careful what you ask for. Brian and I are known for speaking our mind, standing for the right, and fighting hard for what we belive. This has caused us some trouble recently and our personalities aren't likely to change :) John and Jack make good points and I'd agree with much of what they both have said, although I'd also add the counter argument (more for argument's sake and to provoke thought and discussion) that by barring all of the types mentioned, you'll end up barring many qualified individuals. Not that there aren't other qualified folks out there, but those that are hiding need to now come out in the open. It is also of paramount importance that we seek to include those outside of our own sphere of influence. Sure, Beth has many whom she can reach out to via this BBS, but how many more can John reach..and Barb & Tom, and all the others. The potential number of contractors and contacts is staggering. Ignoring the value that distributors and Mfg's bring is to the peril of any org.. John is dead on the money with his observation that dist's and mfg's should be involved but not in management. The history lesson is there for anyone who cares to look. I'd caution anyone to move slowly in the pursuit of a new org.. Moving fast for the sake of moving or acting with emotion instead of reason can have less than desirable results. Brian and I have been involved in discussions (more as consultants than anything) with folks who have suggested a new org. and who are dedicated to making something positive happen. More than anything we have both said over and over again.."Don't be in a hurry". It is necessary for many things to happen and here is my own personal list (which is open for revision if need be) of the minimums. A business plan - Before the pursuit of any endeavor, a plan must exist. Be it a trip away for vacation, a new profit center for your own business, or in this case, a new organization. A well thought out and documented plan must be in place. This plan would include market research, marketing plans, sales plans, revenue forecasts, and all the other standard items that any responsible businessperson would have. Solid market research - As alluded to in number one, it would only make logical sense that prior to bringing a product to market, a responsible manager would have the facts and figures to support the move. Further, but more importantly, for it to be successful, the org would HAVE to know what it is that the potential membership would want, and also whether or not they could actually provide those benefits. Complete transparency - Not only ethically required, but lawfully required. No back door deals, no closet contracts, no B.S. Cash - It takes money to make things happen. A new org will have to have a solid bankroll to deliver the things we think are necessary. Examples would be marketing materials (good stuff too... not just some lame logo or limp pamphlet), basic forms, basic safety plans, business assitance and education materials, lead generation tools, negotiated rates with advertizers, etc. This all takes clout. Clout starts with cash in hand. Controversy need not apply - A tough stance to take, but echoed by all who have participated in the discussions to date. This means that demonstrably polarizing individuals, or individuals who have a clear history of attacks, negativity, downright meanness or other socially unacceptable behaviors simply cannot be in leadership positions. Placing people like this, no matter how popular they may be, in a position of power leads to the demoralization of the org, casts a shadow of doubt among the members, and dims the effectiveness of the org in the public eye. Education - Contrary to current practices in existing organizations, a properly empowered and designed org must be a clearinghouse for education and the free market must decide who does or who does not participate. This is Brian's baby, and I agree with him.. but I'm writing this so I'm going to put it out here.. The org should have the responsibility to its members to ferret out viable and practical educational opportunities. Members should have the power to define what they want in an educational opportunity, both in topic and content. The org should present a set of minimum standards, curriculum requirements, etc. When a potential educator meets those requirements then, the org can say to a member "Companies A,B, and C offer this training and here is the contact information for each." Further, the org has the responsibility to monitor these educators and if they fail to meet acceptable standards, the org should have the power to solve the problem. There is more to this, but Brian needs to take the lead here. This is really the minimum of where I'm at.. There is more, but I really don't want to write a novel. For those who have read this far, Brian and I have agreed to host some "Town Hall" style meetings for anyone who wants to pursue this effort. This one at Tom's place is one of those and is geared to the Northeast segment. We also want to do one in the South (I'm in Atlanta Ga. so near me would be great), one in the Midwest, and one on the West Coast. Volunteers, Locations, and help is needed at every one of these so feel free to contact me or Brain for more info. We'll also be announcing a date for a giant conference call to do the same thing and save travel money. Here's the basics--- This is a Town Hall meeting to explore the possibility and potential for a new power wash association.. Not a bashing session against anyone else. If you have good solid input, ideas, or plans, this is the place to have your voice heard. If you want to pick a fight with an org or an individual that you are not happy with.. sorry, this ain't the place. Call your rep from whatever org (or the person) you are having an issue with and take your problem up with them. We can't solve it and we can't waste time trying. Be bold with your ideas and have them thought out and ready for scrutiny. NOTHING is off the table, but the table is of limited size. Therefore only the best ideas will stay. If you have a good idea and it stands the test, then it can come to fruition. Think about things like planning, implementations, costs, budgets, follow-up. These are challenges that need to be overcome. Get involved. If you want to facilitate change, you must act. It's a law of nature. Nothing happens without something else happening first. If YOU want a new org, then YOU have to make it happen. Ok... That's it.. I'm spent P.S. I'm available for anyone to talk with. Please remember that like many of you successful contractors, I'm a busy guy, so if I don't answer the phone and you really want to talk.. you have to leave a message.. I will call you back as soon as I'm able. (Eastern time, not after 9 pm too please...) 770-318-1032 (mobile) Regards to all, Cujo

a high pressure blast rig could have done it if slipped or otherwise lost control..... Damn shame either way... Given the high risk of roughneck type work, it still sucks that these events could be called 'normal'......

While you are mentioning it Jim,(great idea, BTW) Tractor Supply has a cool generator cover. Same concept as the grill cover but made to fit a portable gen... I think it's right around 25 or 30 bucks..

As long as we're just poking fun, I'm pretty sure Teddy Kennedy's brain/liver/kidneys/ and grasp of common sense is pretty much pickled by now... :)

ok... please help me with my chemistry... memory tells me that ethylene glycol is antifreeze.......

No help there, but a neat trick that has worked for us in the past is a double glove approach.. A decent pair of jersey gloves and then all rubber gloves over that works ok, but is rather bulky. You won't have much in the way of fine motor skills, but if your just holding a gun or surface cleaner it works well. I used to try latex gloves and then a good pair over those, but found that my hands sweated enough inside the latex so as to defeat the whole dry & warm concept :)

Another vote for Muck boots... Hands down the most comfy rubber boot I've ever worn. All day?? ...no prob... About $60.00 a crack, but well worth every penny. I've had the same pair since last winter and they still work like a dream. If you have a Tractor Supply locally, they stock them. 2nd vote for everyday footwear when not wearing the Mucks is my well broken in Carhartt boots. Waterproof, comfy, and durable.

I agree with Squirtgun & Pressure Pros. Stripper not required. A stripper, such as HD or EFC, while effective, is harsher than necessary for unsealed wood. On a fence it may not even be noticed, but certainly a deck would be far too fuzzed after such aggressive work. Kinda like hunting with a Howitzer.. The end result is the same, but what's the point?? I'd wash with SafeWash, brighten with oxalic, let dry and stain. Here is one we finished recently.. First pic is before..notice lichen, mold, etc... Second is after washing with SafeWash and applying oxalic. EDIT: .. Sorry.. Uploaded in reverse order...Results are pretty self explanatory...

Ditto what Scott said... Ready Seal is great, Wood Tux is also very nice, Cabot's looks great but will require a significantly more intense maintenance schedule in the Georgia climate than RS or WT. Fact is, there is just not much of anything out there that will last more than 2 years on a deck in Ga. without maintenance. Does not matter what the label, the fancy glossy brochures, or the salesmen tell you...Sure it might, at some molecular level, actually still be protecting the wood at 4,5,or even 7 years; but the fact of the matter is that at that time interval it will have LONG since begun to look like total crap and you will hate your deck. Not only that, but the work required to restore the once good looks will be quite substantial indeed. Knowing this, then the real questions come down to what is best for the wood, what is most cost effective to maintain, and what will provide proper protection along with good looks. Check our website if you like for more info and for images of Ready Seal decks www.pamspressureclean.com Hope this helps, Cujo

Ryan, Thank you. Also, I know he didn't ask, but Philip Doolittle is a heckuvalot closer to Palmetto than either me or Steve. I bet he could shoot right over if this client of yours needs immediate service. Thanks again, Cujo

Of the 4 surfacers we have, the Classic is the first one off the truck for smaller jobs or ones that have 'stuff' to work around. Like Pete says...it's the best in it's class... Cujo

Ryan, We are booked until after Thanksgiving for resi work and are in the middle of a masive commercial job this week, but if she's willing to wait, we'll be glad to take the lead. Cujo

Question: What % of the total bid is good for a sub to get ? Answer from Subcontractor: As much as I can get. Answer from General Contractor: As little as I can pay him. Answer that settles the deal: Whatever he will work for and be happy. Basically you have answered your own question, and I don't think there is a hard and fast power wash industry standard. In construction, I have seen ranges from 40% to 90% of the job go to a sub, and I suppose one could use those figures as a guide.

Posted By Pete Marentay on the PWNA BBS: Posted By Me on Same:

As a general rule, the best tool to remove silicone from wood is an accelerant and a strategically placed match. *** Public Disclaimer: Post intended in jest, but with a fair element of truth...If you are foolish enought to attempt burn down your place as a result of this post, the limited enforceability of Darwinism has my hands tied, and I can neither help you nor be responsible for your existance in the gene pool. ***

If I can't get silicone off concrete with 200+ degree water at 3000 psi and every chem known to man... what magic are you using to get it out of wood??

Philip, Call me if you like.. I have some thoughs about $$ Cujo

A reminder that the date for the PWNA Georgia Enviro Class is rapidly approaching. If you: Hunger for knowledge, Hunger for a competitive advantage in your market, Want to learn the real deal about reclaim, Are considered a leader or authority in the PW industry, Just want to make your company better, The we again invite you to attend our class. We have paid for Robert Hinderliter to be here and it is sure to be a day filled with tons of information and experience. Make the investment in your future and be ahead of the field. Registration information is attached at the following link. http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4456

Good work.. Are the spindles worth saving or are you going to replace them?

Yes this could be quite an undertaking. This product sounds like it may be a quat.. The X-Jet M-5 will very likely not reach the altitude you require with the machine you have. You might be best served with a sure flo setup similar to what is used by the roof guys in Florida. Don Phelps is perhaps one of the more widely known and certainly highly experienced guys with asphalt and tile roofing in the Orlando area.. He'll have good advise to be sure.

Beth, et al; Talked to Clifford this AM and have worked out some Q & A. Thanks for having this BBS and a place where homeowners can do the meet & greet and find help when they need it. Cujo

Clifford, If you are interested, we are a Ga. contractor (Metro Atlanta Area) who can handle the decks you have. We have done screen porches before and they are not as difficult as one might imagine. The altitude can be a challenge, but the rest of the job is fairly straightforward. There is at least one screen porch job on our website at www.pamspressureclean.com We have others if you would like to see them. Just follow the link, nose around for awhile, check out the gallery, and shoot us an e-mail or phone call if you would like to discuss your project. BTW, Contrary to opinions above, Ready Seal, when applied as directed does NOT need to be redone each year unless a clear is applied. As one might guess, a clear has zero UV protection and while the wood may be waterproofed, it will still turn grey and look weathered. The Georgia climate does not treat decks kindly and we would suggest that at a minimum, our clients use medium brown Ready Seal. It should also be corrected that the necessity for applying RS annually is due to generally only applying one coat (proper installation directions says two coats are correct), or performing poor quality prep jobs. As far as product selection goes, the advice as above id dead on..Stay away from Behr, and go with a better product like Ready Seal. We are experienced with both Ready Seal and Wood Tux, with our favorite being Ready Seal. You can feel confident in dealing with us on either product if you so choose. As far as pricing goes, we would be happy to discuss the particulars with you over the phone if you like. We look forward to hearing from you, Pam & Cujo

WOW !! so much to go over...! Russell, Thank you for your honesty about your product. I am especially impressed that you are recognizing the salesman angle and admit to dressing up your words to glorify the product it the best possible light.. (Something ALL good salesmen do) Also I must restate a fact that I brought up earlier.. I HAVE used WTW and HAVE been pleased with the results. I will try the latest formulation as soon as I get a sample either from you or my distributor. The point of my getting involved within this was not to cast negativity on your product, but to engage a well thought out, insightful, and honest conversation on exactly what WTW does, why, and also how. So far, we have been able to do mostly that, but have had to wade through some of the alternative definitions to get there. Be that as it may.. I like your stuff, it's not my number one choice at this moment in time, but that does not mean I am closed minded enough to prevent me from learning all I can about alternative products and methods. Again, my thanks. . ************************ So.. weeding out the sales fluff, we find that WTW is an alkyd that is designed to form a ever so slight film at the surface in order to lock in the good and keep out the bad. Washing with a mild stripper is suggested for maintenance so that one can remove the film, but retain the tint. Apply a new coat and off you go! FANTASTIC!! By all accounts it sounds like a great product and imagine that..after only 5 pages.. We also learn that RS is a deep penetrating oil that when over applied, underapplied, or improperly prepared either stays tacky, fades, or fails prematurely. Not unlike any other stain in the free world...Even WTW. I could go on with a rather lengthy reply to address some of the other issues and rather disparaging remarks toward RS, we who use it, and those who serve to educate others, but get the overwhelming feeling that the myrmidons are boxed so tightly that it would amount to a grand waste of my otherwise valuable time.

Russell, Thanks for getting right back with your replies. Very insightful into the WTW world. Please help me understand some more. There is no doubt that WTW forms a film at the first layer. When applied correctly, there is a definite shine, a durable top finish, and a very attractive look. Some of my clients wish this. Perhaps we are picking nits here, but I have been taught, as have countless others, that any product which finishes with a shine, a topcoat, or a hard top layer is indeed a film forming finish. You say that WTW does not need to be stripped to be refinished, just washed..but washed with what? EFC-38? Don't get me wrong, I use EFC-38 almost every day and enjoy the work it does, but I also know that EFC-38 IS a stripper. Now stripping the top shiny layer off for maint. isn't a bad thing necessarily, it just is what it is.. It's got to be done and granted you are not removing the tint down deep in the wood, but you gotta do the prep right.. My shipping comparisons were not necessarily real shipping numbers.. just showing the difference in price at the cash register while following up a point made earlier about the profitability of the product... If you missed it, I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. Beth, Yes we have worked with Alkyds before and YES WTW is very easy to work with in the Alkyd world. BTW, alkyds ARE film formers and you have helped me to make my point that WTW is a film former. Thanks :) Russell, I DO like the potential for WTW and will continue to offer it in my line. Thanks again for all the fresh input. Gotta run for now,, off to work.. Cujo

Great Thread !! I have a great deal of experience with Ready Seal and admittedly limited experience with WTW, (the last/old/previous formulation)..I consider myself pretty much up to speed on the largest parts of the difference between the two, but I am waiting to try the newest version on some test wood. There is no doubt that Ready Seal is by far my favorite, but WTW does has served a purpose within my aresenal of wood care products. I do have some questions and observations concerning WTW though.. Along the course of this thread and others across time, (no, I'm not going hunting for quotes..) WTW has been described as a film former, a light film former, and a top coat. Would it be a fair statement to just say that it is a film former? How can the shine be UV protection if the pigments are the UV protection? Will the shine wear off and show traffic patterns? I can see how shine will reflect some sun, but were we not all taught at wood school that the real work here is being done by the pigments? Is this not why we buy SPF 40 instead of baby oil?? For the work of the UV protectors? Admittedly there is something quite ...impressive... about certain baby oil shines ;) If WTW goes for about $140 a pail, Ready Seal for about $95, but you have to strip WTW for maintenance (it's a film former) how is this saving any $$..?? I know some folks will buy stuff based solely based on shipping costs, but I can't possibly see the two being $45.00 per pail different by UPS/FedEx. Yes, I see the savings by being able to do a one day deck, but the real hard number savings there are not much more than a few bucks in the gas tank required for the trip back. The time to strip and seal still remain constant. Is this DMC something brand new as well or did I miss the rollout some time ago while away in my cave? For really old, dry, and nasty wood, and having read that WTW is a film former that dries at the surface as opposed to diving deep to properly moisturize, are you suggesting a primary coat of DMC followed by a coat of WTW to achieve a proper finish? Can WTW be applied over DMC? Can a two step be more cost effective that a one step stain? If this is correct, what happens to the DMC when you strip the WTW for maintenance? Cujo