plainpainter

God, it's a thread filled with newbies, The blind leading the Blind! Arrrrggghhhh!

Here it is 'Black' Friday, survived yet another thanksgiving. Have two more gutter jobs left and then 4 months of unemployment to look forward to from here on out.

Michael, I have run into several independents gutter cleaning contractors. And honestly I don't even understand how they make bread. Seems like folks only want their gutters cleaned out 2 months of the year??? Do you have other gigs lined up for the other parts of the year? Gutter cleaning is a cool add-on service, but building a business around just gutter cleaning makes no sense to me, even the big guys - I only see their trucks during only 2 months of the year.

Too bad it's a juvenile.

Beautiful shots of a 'Sharpie' killing a Starling. Sharp Shinned Hawks are 'hawks' in the british sense but are really accipiters.

I am not quite sure what you mean by 'texture'? If you mean the roller stipple, then you are going way overboard in worrying about those little micro valleys. If you mean by texture, a finish that is rough and something that isn't common in the northeast - then I'd consider doing an 'etching' cleaning wash with TSP - or some solvent. Over drywall, you'll need two coats of Aura. Jon - primers are kind of screwy, remember you just wrote to make sure the primer is tinted so-and-so or you will still end up with topcoating several times? I find that one topcoat over primer still never looks quite right. Under certain circumstances if the paint you are using is white or beige {high in titanium pigments} And you are using a super high coverage technology like Aura in a flat or possibly their matte finish - then you may be ok. But if you go into someone's home and they start wanting all these crazy colors in medium or deep bases, or a higher sheen like eggshell or satin, then you are F'd. If anything I learned from this guy Jack Paughl is that you are better going with a clear sealer in drywall if anything - so at least you are able to apply it with minimal labor, and you will get enamel holdout, and you won't be fighting a 'white' finish. Those cheap drywall primers suck up finish paint horribly and don't accomplish any goal I want them to. Heck I've gotten better coaverage from one coat of P&L accolade eggshell paint over bare drywall in one coat than I did when I first primed it with drywall primer and then the paint. Remember if you are going to 'tint' your primer - then your labor burden will be the same as applying a finish coat - you can't just blanket everything uniformly {trim, ceiling, walls} with a white primer which requires minimal labor - now you are carefully 'cutting' in your tinted primer so it doesn get on the ceilings and woodwork - and it won't be as 'beefy' as an Aura type coating. 2 coats of Aura will look better than 1 coat of tinted primer plus one coat of Aura - unless of course like I said earlier, your walls are a flat finish in a beige off white color only. Sometimes Jon - I think SuperSpec is just a contractor relabel of Regal, a way to give contactors a discount without homeowners getting all uptight they don't get the equivalent discount a painter gets. As to finishes - Aura and Regal have amazing finishes that utterly blow away SuperCraft, SuperSpec can be decent - although a little on the 'thin' side when applying - but superCraft is so apartment like trashy chalky looking cheap paint. And the fumes are horrible to boot. I did an Aura job earlier this year, and the homeowner came in to talk to me for a bit - and I realized, it hardly smelled - it was for an apartment. The renters could move in the next day without having to worry about paint odors.

Marko - in 'casual' areas, there isn't enough surface oils that a 100 grit pole sanding couldn't cure. Not to mention the adhesion properties of some these newer waterborne finishes are insane. And other surfaces like doors - where there can be problems, a TSP wash will solve the problem. Re-priming entire walls is the last option you want to consider. Heck a quickie Denatured alcohol wipe, that I have done on numerous occasions, is much quicker,cheaper, and solves all your problems. Heck I've wiped off crayola crayon marks with denatured alcohol - and it leaves the paint surface a bit gooey for a perfect grip for the new paint. Back to the waterborne finishes. Back in '04 when I was repainting all my sisters doors which were all old oil painted doors - the only way to prep them was a thorough sanding with 100 grit, and I don't mean like 5 minutes - I mean a full 20-30 minutes per side including door jambs, and then a full oil based prime. Before I could repaint them in latex. Now just 5 years later with these improved waterborne finishes. I have successfully just been able to sand down the old finish and use the newer latex finishes directly on top without any adhesion problems. 5 years ago, this was impossible - things in the trades change. They also have really good self-priming paints now, like Benjamin Aura that you can paint directly on drywall/mud without even priming. Things change all the time.

Marko - I've been involved in the painting trades in one form or another and this blind practice of priming was never part of it. Priming is only done when there is a specific need for it. If you have a previously painted surface, there is absolutely nothing that will be achieved by re-priming it - other than additional materials cost and labor. Unless, there is a specific need for it, as in trying to 'kill' a dark color, improving adhesion properties in instances you are switching from from a previous oil based coating to a latex one - or if you going from high gloss finish to a flat finish. Or if you large water stains or smoke stains you are trying to kill that could bleed into the new finish and/or harm adhesion properties. Or if you have extremely dirty walls like you run into kitchens or bathrooms - where sanding will not remove surface oils that can affect adhesion. A good instance of re-priming a whole house I did once, is the time where this whole house was always extremely peeling but was painted in semigloss. So after pressure washing, scraping, sanding and spot priming all exposed wood areas with an oil base primer. I reprimed all the clapboards of the home with an exterior latex primer tinted to the final finish. This allowed me to use a 'flat' house paint finish to minimize all the ugly irregular surface from paint buildup and consequent uneven 'failure' of the finish. In this case a primer was needed, since I am painting a flat paint over a semigloss, where surface adhesion is an important consideration.

Well, if you like doing additional steps for the heck of it, by all means go for it. I am talking in terms of professionals in the business, every step has to be justified. If you present to a homeowner the fact you will be doing an additional 'primer' step, trust me - you won't be able to sell it for one penny over what other contractors are quoting. If the surface is 'sound' then there is no need to prime. I have run into many 15+ year old paint finishes that were fine - just a good solid pole sanding with 100 grit and dust wipe off was all that is needed. There were the typical 80's contractor grade paint done on new construction at the time that could benefit from a clear sealer like Guardz or DrawTite to penetrate the 'chalky' finish all the way down to the sheetrock and re-cement the old finish and give a good base for a new finish. But other than that there is not much reason to prime.

I think the retailers are smart this year, they've curbed inventory to keep demand levels high this year. Hot items are selling and customers notice the shelves aren't keeping stocked as fast. As well, a local nightly magazine show does a spot once a week on restaurants - there has been a quazillion restaurants opening in and around Boston this past year. Every restaurant I walk into from the luncheonette on up is always packed. The fundamentals for this economy will remain on the blink for years - and it remains to be seen if the O'bama administration truly makes the fundamental changes needed to our financial markets to prevent this from ever happening again. But saying all that - if you guage our 'economy' on folks going and spending again, housing markets improving, etc - then I see a continual and lasting improvement. I also believe that there will be enough improvement especially for household incomes of 70k and greater, e.g. their homes are worth more than they owe, stock market back up, etc. That service companies like us will see a great year - despite a bad unemployment. I will even go to say that if home values improve and the stock market goes back up and life is honky dory for the 70k and higher crowd - that news of high unemployment will fall on deaf ears. Remember the top 10% of 'wealth' in this country is responsible for 50% of all the spending that goes on. Spending is 70% of our GDP. If you include all households with incomes of 70k and greater - that's the top 30% of household incomes in this country. If the economy turns around for the top 30% of folks - unemployment figures will no longer matter - and business will be back to normal.

Honestly, Larry, I haven't a clue. Up until 3 winters ago, I'd go down to Boston and do painting for $15/hr all winter long. I can't bring myself to do that anymore. Historically, I have never had 'winter' interior painting work even during the good years. Folks don't want you in their home during the holidays, and have no money leftover after buying all their christmas presents. I am still trying to figure out a winter gig that doesn't involve smashing apart a trucks front end up doing plowing. All I can do is just work on my marketing so I can continue my 'A' game for when the season starts back up. At least that's where I am lucky - my competition aren't savvy in the ways of advertizing and marketing, they just do some winter job.

This is just anecdotal on my part and extremely regional. But I see a definite upswing with retailers this year. Heck remember when stores like Talbots were going out of business for good? They're still hanging in. In my downtown which was looking like a ghost town a year ago, has seen a good influx of new stores coming in - I see no indication of stores closing up shop like a year ago. Heck one store that had been in business for a century closed up last year for good. Starbucks is packed. All the shops that closed have new shops going in. I vote at least in my neck of the woods that retailers will do much better this year.

Marko - I am painter by trade, in this instance there is no primer needed. The walls have been previously painted - if you do large patches of mudding/skimming - then you spot prime those areas. The only reasons for priming if the wall is new - or you have nasty stains you need to 'kill'. If you had 'gloss' sheen on the walls and wanted to go to a flat finish - and you were lazy and didn't feel like sanding, then you would prime. You also prime in order to kill a previous dark color when going to a lighter color. And god forbid if your walls are oil painted - then you reprime them before going to latex. But typical stuff like - no need to prime.

Spackle the holes John - and pole sand them with 100 grit. After you are done pole sanding - get a tack rag and wipe off the dust. Typical living space rooms don't require cleaning - usually you just sand off the any surface stuff. Only instances you need to clean are bathrooms with women and their aerosols getting all over the walls and other stuff I won't go into but you can imagine.

To the tune of $40. This is an older guy talking about how he has this little bit of gutter to have cleaned, some guy has been doing it in his neigborhood - blah blah blah. And then he tells me how much he has been having it done for. Of course my 'minimum' has come down atrociously lately - and I gave him the $85 minimum and how a professional company can't come for less no matter how small the job, and that I have insurance. And he is like yeah, yeah, I totally agree and understand. Then he tells me....but still I am going to look around or perhaps even do it myself, since I have some ladders. Another day of life in the 'valley' of northeastern mass. And this is a big bucks neighborhood to boot. Man, up is down, left is right, and suddenly $40 jobs are profitable and pay for all your direct and indirect expenses plus profit to boot!!! At best this is an ok upsell item for a landscaping crew that is there already.

LOL - it's nice to know all those years ago of being teased on the playground that now the 'Tambasco' Sauce has finally come to fruition. Effective Dec. 1 my newspaper ad is cancelled. So will begin the process of reworking my website this winter and other marketing. I hate all the doom and gloom out there.

I saw a youtube video that Rod and Beth posted about sanding interior floors. And it made me think - is floor sanding a good complementary service to a deck restoration company? It's funny because I have a lot of the necessary equipment now - even have an orbital floor sander. And I have sanded a few floors and poly'd them. It's just my memory is that floor sanding is very competitive in price and the bulk of your work comes through a G.C. Has anyone seriously looked into this kind of work seriously? It could be a great money maker for the winter months.

Whatever Jim. Here check out this home. Karen Neve I bid on this house last fall, the winning estimate was $5,500 to repaint the exterior of this home. And it was dirty with loads of peeling on the trim. This use to be an easy 15k repaint. I think I remember about 6,600 SF of exterior area overall? That's 83 cents a SF to pressure wash a home, scrape the loose paint on the trim and prime, caulk as needed and then paint - materials included. When was the last time Jim you did a deck restoration for 83 cents a SF??? And seeing we are dealing with vertical heights in upwards of 35 feet - I'd venture that's it's a whole lot more difficult - not to mention you have to apply everything by hand - if you spray, no way you can paint the trim in one coat and get coverage over the overspray. Oh yeah, nearly forgot this was painted late '08 - painters have gotten even hungrier since. I know one crew that will paint this home for $3,400 all day long. That's 52 cents per square foot, Jim - think about it. And in the great scheme of things - this house isn't a whole lot of prep work. But just to give you an idea - if you applied your deck rates to this house it would be priced at $13,200 - for one coat application, yet the 'going' rate is $5,500-$6000. And the lady of the house thought out loud in my proximity how that was a lot of money! Excuse me? This is the norm right now. This paint job was done in fall of '08 - pricing is even more competitive. I know one paint company that will paint this home for $3,400 all day long

That's Sutton pond behind the 'New' North Andover center - those buildings in the distance are the old 'Machine Shop' buildings that made the textile looms for the Sutton and Stevens Mills along the Cochichewick River {which this pond is part of}. Those granite fencing poles are new. Ken - the area is beautiful - the homes are humungous - and yet we're all out of work. The owner of White Street paints, who has 7 different locations under his belt just recently laid off a bunch of guys. All the guys have reduced their pricing at a minimum of 30% The 'going' rate for painting is between $27-$33 per hour. I even talk to guys in Southeastern Ma, who tell me stuff like 'shheesh, you guys have it real bad in the merrimack valley' Several of my past clients now use some retired marine and his wife in an unmarked pickup truck with out of state plates and no commercial. My best client golf course just went bankrupt - actually no, the judge wouldn't give him bankruptcy protection, so he is being sued like gang busters. Ken - just because an area is beautiful, don't mean folks are spending. There is a New England culture here that you just don't understand - they take pride in being miserly. Heck my friend who is a designer/decorator, she did a bunch of interior work for one of those huge McMansions in the next town over from this picture you posted. She wanted her daughters room repainted and they are putting the home on the market - she told me it was an easy $1,000 job - it had loads of chair rails and funky wainscoting. But she really wanted the work so she bid it low at $830 including materials. The woman erupted and told my friend she didn't understand why it was more than $500 - and that her husband would kill her for spending more. Mind you we're talking a 1.5 million dollar house here. She's the one whose website I pointed out to you that you thought was really nice. She hasn't made a dime off that website in the year that it's been up.

That's a good age group, Rick. I'd say Mid 40's to late 50's is the best age group. I was talking about a couple in their 70's. This is a good area, just not a good time to be in my area. It seems no matter how much folks make, their budget expands/exceeds to more than what they make. Then you have a slumping real estate market - and the once rich, are now the landed 'gentry'.

Well, now I am starting to really feel the pain as my income has all but dried up - Winter is really here, 4 months of hibernation to look forward to. And painting in my area is experiencing the worst period since the early 90's recession. So I decided to hop on over to recovery.gov to see how O'bama bucks is doing. After perusing the data I was astonished to find out only 220 billion of the larger 787 billion bailout package has actually been paid out!?!?! We're coming on a year since it was passed, and only a third of it has actually been paid out. I don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing. Bad because we desperately need the money, good perhaps because he is going for a slow and steady course without the danger of a 'double' dip recession. Either way - I am fed up with this economy. Folks are starting to spend again, but it isn't unilaterally.

Thad - pretty sure this was a tad sarcastic - that said, William has a ton of volume and I don't. The more volume you have, the greater the probability of being in the area and being able to do these 5 minute jobs and taking the money. For me - I have no reason to go in that certain direction for months on end perhaps. I travelled to one end of my service area, actually outside of it - perhaps an hour and 15 minute drive by highway. And I was fortunate to have had the ability to line up 2 customers that same day and came home with $900 - didn't have to enact minimums or anything. It was the ability of having a 'cluster' of clients in the same area that made it possible and profitable. When you're small - you miss many of these oppurtunities. I give William Kudos for engineering everything he does.

Thad, don't get me wrong - some services I provide I am making good money, and I have a bunch of good customers. This guy is a remnant of the old school New Englander - I posted this thread more for giggles than anything. I think it's all about the business angle and what service you provide. Painters are starving to death right now, yet landscapers and irrigation guys are making record profits this year! I do however think it's a lack or respect to call a professional and hope they'll do a $40 service - to me he is more about price/cheap than forging a strong business relationship. My last deck job of the season was a senior citizen living in a very modest home - and she was in my top 3 best customers of the year. Thad I agree about tweaking marketing - wish I had asked where they found me - I think he said his wife gave him my number, so he wouldn't have known anyways. My knowledge for marketing has skyrocketed this year - and with knowledge comes ease of mind of what my probability of success is. Before I was in the dark and that always freaked me out.

I think I'll stick to good the good ol' oven method. That seems like way too much work.

Last winter, Rick, had an elderly couple putting their home on the market after first buying it back in '82. And they wanted 4 rooms painted, which included removing wallpaper for like 1-1/2 rooms before mudding and repriming. their budget for the total job was $500 - you tell me, am I in the right demographic for > 55 yr. old?