plainpainter

A 13hp direct drive 4gpm machine is a perfect match for you at this point in time. I own a 5.5 gpm machine that I bought new two years ago - still haven't used it. I still just use my direct drive 13hp machine - it's attached to a 35 gallon buffer and does great even on slow muni supplies. I've done huge homes with it - I can make $1,500 off my own back everyday with it - even at my slow rate. The lure of bigger machines is much quicker rinse times - but I ain't Lance Armstrong, this ain't a race. 8 gpm machines are real quick - but the ability for a muni supply to keep up is impossible - and even large tanks can get drained fast. And I hate the idea of having 1,000 lbs of weight for every 125 gallons of water on my trailer. I like to be able to stop when idiots cut me off.

That's definitely too low a pressure rinse job. Heck I think 800 psi is low - heck with the purists, bump up your pressure to 1000-1200 psi - that will knock everything off. Remember the high pressure is bad mantra - is because guys were butchering decks with 2500psi low volume machines at too close a distance. Newly grey decks don't clean up well with percarbs. You have to wait til the deck is a solid 4-5 years to develop an even 'crust' of sun UV damaged wood that comes off evenly.

LOL...Audiophiles. Now it's confirmed that you two are completely out of your minds. I had a creative labs 5.1 speaker system for my computer once that I thought rocked.

What sealer did you use?

Just put some real small tips in - it will maintain the high pressure yet decrease the volume.

I never caught an episode - actually I never ever ran across it - what station was it on?

Jim - I said new pressure treated doesn't accept stain. It's kind of like cedar is to the painting world - as long as cedar is ejecting out tannins - nothing seems to stick. Pressure treated is 'juicy' from all the chems. I like my wood to season a few seasons. My neighbors deck is a perfect candidate, it was built four years ago and weathered in a shady area. It's right where I want the wood to be - enough of the surface has degraded that it will come off real nice with a downstream hydroxide solution or a good bleach/tsp solution.

I hate new wood. Pressure treated needs to 'open' up and leach some of those chems for a few years before I like to touch it. Nothing penetrates and nothing sticks. The only thing I think actually works for new wood - is to scrub it with TSP/Bleach - and then hit it with a porch&floor latex paint. For some reason latex floor paint sticks great to new wood that's been properly cleaned.

you don't need to go to aluminum siding to find oxidation - the last two white vinyl homes I cleaned, you could wipe the siding with your finger and it turned your fingertips white.

I just read a thread on ptstate - another typical guy coming on for the first time asking about square tanks vs. round - wants to know if a van setup is good to chase commercial and residential, as that what he plans to do. And to boot he's in South Michigan. Now I got this sick feeling in my stomach - like ughh - another newbie who thinks the pressure washing trade is good money and will be doing $89 house washes. What I want to know - is it responsible to congratulate the guy and give him the confidence for starting up a new business - especially someone that sounds like they never had a business before nor any real experience with pressure washing? Is it in our own self interestes to welcome guys aboard during this economy? Call me selfish - but I feel like I will be struggling just to make ends meat - that I am working day and night trying to understand SEO just so I can get a decent website ranking and maybe make an extra couple of grand in sales I wouldn't have last season - I really want to discourage anyone from coming into the trades right now. I just don't need the headaches of dealing with $89 guys right now, especially when I know they won't last anyways.

LOL - you got me Jon. That was just for experimenting - I'll experiment with household products - but once I the experimentation is over, I settle on a professional chem for professional day to day use. Or I will mix up a batch of my own chems from basic ingredients - not off the shelf products. Larry - I disagree, I use Bob's products for house cleaning - and I dont' see how you can get cheaper. Dawn liquid cleaners are just surfactants basically - and in my neck of the woods a surfactant with just bleach is not enough to get a home clean - I need the power of other ingredients such as detergent builders.

Try being a professional and purchasing detergents from manufacturers that purposely make stuff for professional use. Leave the dishwashing detergent for your wife when she does the dishes, or you I suppose if you do the dishes.

what's wrong with ammonia Dawn? It's cleans my dishes real nice and disinfects them at the same time.

Downstreaming is much easier.

Don't forget guys - unlike a lot of you even - I worked for years for other crews and bosess - I had been asking questions about pricing perhaps for about 5 years under several bosses before I quoted my first job. I had done perhaps over 50 decks for other painters over the years. And I had done tons of internet research about chems and machines on regular websites before I even joined a forum. Sure I did my college stint and worked several 'desk' jobs in the interim. The main reason I found these boards was due to frustration over how business changed so much - frustration that deck stains never seemed to last as long as they use to back in the 90's. I had no idea about the changing VOC laws that were happening. In a lot of ways I was a predecessor to alot of you guys - I was doing decks before Jim Foley - just as a painter and not a deck specialist.

Thank you Ron for clarifying. Either we should redefine referrals or clarify what we mean. When I was painting back in the 90's - a referral was when someone contacted you who had seen your work and wanted you to do work for them - a customer of yours referred you - hence the term referral. What folks are calling referrals now - is something more like what I consider networking or proactive referrals. There was nothing proactive with referrals back in the 90's.

Rick - these are precisely not the folks interested in spending any money. I have to come up with a 'splash 'n dash' deck staining for a cheapo price to get these folks to bite. They want to sell their home - and the fact that their home value has fallen a 100k does not have them enthused to spend money on a luxury deck resto.

Maybe it's the weather - has still been kind of funky - but 2 out of 3 estimate calls for deck jobs have been folks with a for sale sign in the front yard. I just called a former customer of mine for a deck maintenance from a job I did 2 years ago this coming september - and she literally thought I was there just last year! We'll see how that goes. Most painting contractors I know have closed up shop - I know a high end landscaper that wants to refer me for a mahogany deck - I can't believe it if that happens.

Rick - this time last year I had already completed 3 wood jobs. Nothing so far. My paper advertizing - which was my only form of advertizing last year that got me any business - hasn't even netted me a penny at this point in the year. My sales for house washing has skyrocketed through the roof - but not due to any one of the 4 advertizing mediums I used last year and into this year. All my business this year has been from my own marketing through guerrilla methods. And each year my painting sales falls further and further behind. Again you make statements - perhaps in your area living next door to Rockefeller a 'bad' year is relative.

Where do you come off saying something is very wrong Rick? That's a judgement you made with no credible evidence! You guys live in a certain world and can't imagine anything else. Like I said deck work is 50% of my business and growing each year in total sales. I am keeping prior years customers now for maintenance work - and I am selling new to homeonwers each and every year. But what I said is very true - that's my experience - not one 'golden' referral customer from deck work in 5 years. That's perhaps stretching the meaning. I only did one deck in year #1. None in year #2. Repeat in year #3 - first woodtux deck resto. Wasn't until year #4 did I advertize and start acquiring real deck restos. Did the same last year in year #5. Now we're in year #6. I only really started house washing in year #4 as well - remember getting two referrals in the same season. And I got another referral this year as well - all from the same homeowner!!!!!!!!!! But no other referrals that I know of. I've gotten a bunch of referral interior painting work. Beth I always say thank you and shake hands. But what I find incredible is that I was the king of referrals back in the mid-90's. I am much business oriented and service oriented these days. And yet I am questioned about something being severely wrong? I have a friend who is a designer interior painting contractor and she did over 50k in gross last year juggling her business between her husband's work hours and picking up kids in daycare. And she says the exact same thing - referrals just aren't the same anymore - and the few she does get, they are still shopping quite a bit.

Rick - I am saying guys who say they are 'busy' due to referrals - it's only possible if you are cheap. I am not referring to you, Foley, B&R, nor Fenner. What you guys have in place is networking, history of being in business in an area with a known name, staying in contact with previous customers, etc, etc, etc. Terry says his business is 80% referrals - and that makes me suspicious. I've been in business for myself now 5 completed years this month. True referrals I would say comprise about 10-15% of my business. Chasing after past customers for 'maintenance' deck work - or going back to a deck resto client and now nabbing 'over the winter' interior paint work is not a referral! Referrals are great, I agree, but I can't stand when guys come on these boards and make ridiculous claims. I am in the 'trenches' everyday - I've done 3 estimates this weekend - where the homeowner were collecting multiple estimates once again for their bi-annual house cleaning. Imagine that! Unsuspecting guys reading what Terry says - think that the road of success is doing good quality work and you will have referrals power your business. When the reality is that you do good quality work - and 2,3 years later the homeowners once again set forth getting multiple estimates again. They've forgotten who washed their home the last time. People forget constantly. Only by being in place in front of the customer, by maintaining a communique is what generates customer loyalty/retension - and perhaps you will be able to get a few more true referrals along the way. Of all my deck work - I have pretty much retained all my prior clients - but as an example I have not gotten one referral deck restoration job from my deck clients - I haven't even gotten an inquiry. Deck work is roughly 50% of my yearly gross - and not one referral client in 5 years. It's all customer retention and acquiring new homeowners. And that's not to say I haven't gotten tons of adulation and folks saying how much their friends loved the deck - but not one referral deck job in 5 years.

You know, Rick, this comment blows my mind. You can even ask Fenner about my positivity about business lately - he'll tell you I am extremely positive. But you couldn't resist jumping on the Dan is a negative ******* train. I am just giving my synopsis of something that is very fundamentally misunderstood on these boards. If I get ten deck jobs from my classified ad - is that considered a referral customer? Wouldn't you try and correct me if I said such a statement? I could argue the newspaper referred me - therefore they are referral customers, right? Too many guys labeling all their networking connections and folks outright trying to promote business by asking customers for referrals or asking them to participate in referral points systems....These aren't Referrals with a capital R!!!!!!!! This is something you have to work hard for, business relationships that need to be maintained. A True referral is one in which you didn't pay any money to acquire, you didn't ask someone to participate in a prize/point system, nor is a referral from contractors tossing you work from a BNI group - all of the preceeding which either requires time/money/effort on your part to acquire. A true referral is one in which all you did was a good job that someone liked - and you got a job as a result of said work. This doesn't require any work on top of meeting with a homeowner and delivering an estimate. This is what doesn't happen much anymore and certainly not enough to keep most folks busy. True referrals are great when you get them - but they aren't something you can wait by the phone for. The only exception to this rule, there are some guys that keep busy by this method even to this day, but it's because they are extremely dirt cheap! Without exception - any contractor that stays busy by word-o'-mouth - and doesn't advertize whatsoever, doesn't network, it's because they're cheap.

Guys tooting their own horns once again. Ron has given the most realistic response. Guys could read into this thread thinking all they have to do is do a good job and wait by the phone - and it will ring off the hook. That's just more B/S. What people label 'referals' is not really what a referal system use to mean. It use to mean folks asking other folks who painted their home or what not - and you getting a phone call. That's just not realistic these days. Now if you chase folks for testimonials - put them on a 'points' system if they refer - blatantly ask them outright anyone they know. This is actually a form of direct target marketing - that most folks on these forums lazily label as 'referrals'. Networking with other groups such as BNI and PDCA - although tempting to refer as 'referral' customers, is actually the result of hitting the pavement and networking with other contractors. I get 'pure' referrals from time to time - I got an interior painting job worth 2k+ a few weeks ago. Got a $350 house washing job from a referral from a customer of two years ago. But that represents perhaps 10% of all my business this year in terms of percentages of customers, not gross $$. Here is a good example - yesterday was talking to a guy about washing his home - and we were talking about the ice damns over the winter - and what the new roofers did to prevent it etc. I was admiring how they put a 'soldier' course of shingles up the rake side of the roof {something you see rarely done anymore} and how they pushed the soldier courses both on the rakes and on the eaves a full inch past the drip edge{ again even rarer} So I asked the homeowner who was the company because I liked their work. And he told me they were really great - he got a bunch of estimates, yada yada, worked from sunset to sundown - very hard working brazilian team - yada yada yada - but for the life of him couldn't remember who they were. And it was only 2 years ago. How do you get referrals if folks don't even remember you? This is most typical.

Define protection? Are you so hot to protect wood from UV damage at the cost of everything else? Even if UV damage was 1 mil thick every year - you could resurface your deck a thousand times before you removed an inch away from the wood. Solid stain is the ultimate film former type product - it provides utterly no protection from water migrating through the finish and into the wood. And they become peely messes - which can never ever again look again unless totally stripped - which is not an easy task. Semi-transparent stains can be applied and easily stripped every third year - cleaning the wood each time in the process. And look brand new each time. Solid opaque style coatings work fine for vertical surfaces. I guess it comes down to the oak vs. the poplar analogy during a typhoon. The oak tree uses strength to stand strong against the winds of the typhoon - and so gets completely ripped right out of the ground roots and all. The Poplar tree bends to will of the wind - and yet remains through the storm. Solid stains are like the oak tree - and the semi-transparents are more like the poplar.

Terry - you are such a fraud - you are a perfect example of everything that is wrong with these boards.