plainpainter

believe it or not a picture is worth a thousand words, helps to post a photo to get quicker more accurate assessments.

I haven't found it but I am close. TWP 200 is not recommended on decks, but if you are willing to stay off a deck for 2-3 weeks, it is a perfect stain. I didn't realize this, but it's often compared to readyseal because of it's mineral oil content - but what I found out when using and reading the side of the can - it also has a hard drying resin in it. If you put that stain in a cup and let it sit for a few days - the top will dry out even though it's on top of mineral oil. Believe it or not - I had much worse drying issues with the 500 series, even though that's meant for decks! So I will try the 1500 series and see how that works. But you can reduce the 200 series up to 30% and still be VOC legal! And that may be the ticket.

On another forum, the moderators will kindly tell the o/p to go to the DIY section and then close the thread.

I wish I could get that pricing. 200-275 is usually the price I get for McMansions with loads of 3rd story gutters. And even then I run across guys that will do those for half the price.

There is precious little in this world worth doing for a mere $115. Just running a legit business and doing analysis of your business numbers will show that $115 services aren't the stuff that real businesses are built on. If you work for that cheap - you might as well go 100% cash, and drop all your insurances. Cheap is cheap, you won't win over these customers dropping your prices by 5, 10, or 15% -- these folks want you to work for a company rate of $15/hr. And there is just no real way to run a company on that little.

Looks great, and looks like a lot of work! Color looks almost identical to the TWP 200 Cedartone I put down on my deck.

I don't understand using a blend of both acids. Seems to me if you want the same results as a 'blended' acid - then use a lower concentration of OX. You use less and get the same results.

Here is a maintenance customer that I performed a restoration for back in Nov '09. Here are the pics of the deck prior to me doing a bleach wash and pressure rinse. Just curious if you guys think if this acceptable looking close to 21 months after restoration? Maybe I am being too hard on stain products - at least it washed up nice, will get those photos once the hurricane passes. I think the spread rate was about 115 SF/gallon on a wet-on-wet application, completely absorbed everything - deck is 12 feet off the ground.

I was experimenting with cleaning some of paint brushes loaded with dried latext paint. One of my experiments consisted of a capful of downy fabric softener and 1/8 cup of tsp mixed into a paint bucket (approx 1 gallon) of scalding hot water. Within 30 seconds - the dried latex paint on the wood handles emulsified and came off in the same consistency that sealers come off my decks when I strip them with caustic strippers. But this was old dried out cured latex house paint! So I thought maybe some of you guys with hot pressure washers could experiment with using really hot water and downstreaming a strong solution of tsp and a surfactant - and then rinsing with really hot water - to see if there is a cheap way of removing latex paint. Now you'll probably raise the grain of the wood - but in this kind of situation, doing a little sanding after probably would beat really expensive causting paint strippers. Just a thought

I am reaching a breaking point with customers. I've been small enough that in the past I could schedule a house washing to a particular date and a particular time. And I could always call back and reschedule in case of weather, and always had plenty of time in the schedule to fit it in. This year has been a breaking point - in the past I didn't particularly notice homeowners being burdensome - but now that I have pretty full schedules, I am finding homeowners to be somewhat annoying and unrealistic in their desires. So here are my issues in a nutshell.. a.) How do I steer homeowners from wanting an exact date and time that I will be coming to their property? I imagine landscapers don't call before they show up each week. b.) How do I get homeowners away from wanting constant coddling on the telephone? I want to get folks more on email, so instead of explaining to 15+ homeowners that every day it rains that my schedule changes - this is breaking me. I can deal with individual homeowners with projects worth $1,500 and up - but below the $500 ticket price, this is becoming insanity. Anybody have an email system they use, whether formal or informal, that deals with re-contacting many homeowners at a time? c.) When is a good time to insert a 'policy' sheet alerting homeowners to certain major policies that need to be followed, i.e. being paid in full upon completion whether homeowner is around or not, cannot dedicate phone time unless it's absolutely important cancellations and notice of arrival will be done by email, etc. Is it too much to show this prior to even getting the job? And if not - I find I don't get any face time, as they'll call back a few days later to say they want to go with me. At which point - I have no real way of instructing them.

Well, that's part of the reason behind this thread - I can't keep up with all the customers to constantly give them courtesy calls. One job goes over a couple of hours - and I have to give courtesy calls for the remaining 4-5 customers, and then the other 3 I can't get to. And then all the customers that were scheduled the next day all have to get calls - thus sets off a ripple effect. The problem isn't a big deal when you are working with $1,500 - $2,500 deck restorations - there are intrinsically fewer customers to juggle. But there is no way I am going to give all that attention for gutter cleaning customers. And them being there was never discussed in the first place!!!!!! See, that's the problem - once you actually have a business with a bunch of customers, it becomes harder and harder to hold all their hands constantly.

Rick brings up something interesting about contracts. My problem with the initial meeting was that I was spending a lot of time writing up fully worded contracts - and then not getting the job. So I got to the point where if they didn't commit to a job at the initial meeting, I left them a price list basically. Then folks got back in touch with me. Now the problem is, how do you get fully worded contracts back over to be signed and returned without having to make yet another trip. For larger deck restoration work, this isn't such a big deal. But for gutter cleanings - it's almost like it's not worth it, and maybe just invoice them at the end, and hopefully they pay - even though you never got a signature on anything. Are there apps out there now that can accept hand signatures digitally? So I can just email something, have them sign off on it on there ipad or something? I am getting to the point where I am willing to not service a whole demographic if they aren't keeping up with the times - that's how frustrated I am these days.

These are some good comments. I had a gutter cleaning job earlier this year where the guy asked me a date and time - so I gave him a morning - although them being there was never discussed. So something came up that morning and I came during the afternoon instead. To my delight *sarcasm* they left a note cancelling the job saying they waited all morning for me. I was pissed. For a lousy $169 folks expect me to jump through hoops? I should be able to ten jobs like that a day without specific times and dates. One rain day and everything gets shoved. I guess I will have to work on a policy sheet.

you can wash homes and roofs with the stuff - but you'll need to apply it straight from a pump

I was always under the impression the stains formed when tannic acids of cedars, redwoods, & Fir come into contact with iron oxides is extremely localized around the fasteners - you are talking about staining that is more generalized. Other than these localized tannic/iron oxide stains, my impression is just the general increase in tannins caused by using caustic cleaners over the entire surface. When you use the correct fasteners for these woods, this isn't even an issue.

Please explain exactly how acid prevents future tannins from leaching to the surface?

With all these newer formulations that lack the mineral spirits of yesteryear, It got me thinking can you screw up a product's performance with the use of additional mineral spirits - assuming you apply enough material to maintain original coverage rates? Assume for the sake of arguement that you limit to 25% reduction.

Beth, I've been painting homes since around '90. I have never not seen a good TSP/Bleach mix not clean the wood and lighten up the wood. Bleach removes tannins as well. And if you mix the TSP to bleach ratio just right - it's a one step cleaning process that both cleans and lightens. As well....as well, does a good job at stripping the remainder of old finishes. Maybe not true with most woods, but a bleach/tsp clean leaves a much more natural looking wood finish than percarbs/NaOH/brightening on cedar in my opinion. Oh yeah just to clarify - 95% of homes I have painted have been WRC clapboards or shakes.

Rick - I've been working on western red cedar for over a decade longer than you have.

I'm sorry Pamela, disregard my previous post. Do exactly what you did last time except don't bother brightening - save yourself some hassle. Add a little TSP to your mix, rinse well. Then wait to dry and stain.

I wouldn't change

Rick, I know what your inappropriate response was going to be, but I have no options but to abandon present product immediately and pick up another one without much testing. I like the 500 series, but it's discontinued and had drying issues - which is ok, since I was willing to just thin it down. And the 200 series which is an excellent product is just not usable on customers deck, it needs what is looking like 2 weeks before being returned to use on my own deck - along with it being extraordinarily hard to use. And of course the 100 series is not allowed in my area. I give my customers a 2 year warranty, Rick, so no matter what product I choose I'll stand behind it. So I just wanted to know from Lyle, in a nutshell if the drying issues and ease of use have been addressed. It's a risk to start using this product, but It's one I am going to take - it's a better risk than to continue using a product that I know that doesn't perform.

That's the one I am going to start using for customers in the future. What is your experience with the product?

Lousy quality control? I know most people on these boards want to marginalize me as a contractor and made irrelevent - but how do you explain away Celeste and Jim's experience? Since you have had success, or what you qualify as success on this one ipe deck, therefore the product is a success? And therefore My experience, Celeste, and Jim's don't count? For all I know, Rick, you've pumped that deck so full of RS over the years - that it's having a beneficial effect on this latest stain. What about the customers' ipe deck that's only seen ATO when it was first built and nothing since in 5-6 years? You still feel confident you'll get identical results? As good as you claim that stain is on your ipe deck, me thinks it still wont' get you away from using RS on your customers. Which is probably a good thing for you. You'll still get the results for customers that you and your customers are use to and happy with - and you get to give continual kudos to your buddy, Jake, for making such a high quality product that you hardly ever use. Difference between me and you Rick, is that I based my business 100% on that product for two seasons - where as you never did. I now know the outcomes of doing so. Another complaint that seems to be coming up more and more now among clients, they talk about the 'creaking' of the boards when they walk over it. That never was ever brought up before - and I can't even begin to imagine why?

Maybe he improved the formula and conveniently forgot to mention it?