plainpainter

Rod - I am just sick and tired of hearing from so many guys about how and why they price the way they do. From it's 'what the market' will bare, or the never ending 'what we do isn't rocket science - the homeowner can do it'. I don't think those mentalities have any place in business - they're irrelevent. When Suzy homeowner thinks I am too expensive - I have the confidence to know that being a professional that's what it takes to run a business. If you don't follow basic accounting practices - then you open yourself up to be degraded by a homeowner. How many times have I heard folks say that house cleaners for instance weren't professional - and therefore didn't deserve better than 16/hr. And lots of them acquiese to this. However, had they understood better business practices - had knowledge of income, balance, and cash flow sheets - they'd know it was impossible to stay that cheap no matter what the prevailing thoughts were of them. Too many people in this world running businesses for less money than they could make working at McDonalds. And I am sick of it.

You arrive to a customers residence that you will be washing - they're not home - it's expected. But you find one or perhaps several windows open, even though you told them to make sure they were shut. What do you do? I've been guilty in the past of being extra careful of the water stream if it's just one window. But in general I imagine we should skip the job for the day. But that's time on a wasted trip and gas and in general human resources, especially with employees. How do you folks handle this with your customer? Shouldn't we be compensated for lost time? Does this leave a bad taste in the customers mouth - even though they forced our company to lose money. There doesn't seem to be an easy solution - what are some of your thoughts?

This is exactly what I am talking about, in contrast to a well targeted demographic, targeted at the right time early in the year and a good economy - there is a world of difference. This is what I am saying - a mass mailing isn't insurance of success. If done well you can reap the rewards - if several mishaps happen - you just plunked down thousands and thousands of dollars - with a big goose egg. Gone are the days where landscapers are going to do their massive 20,000 wide canvassing mailers per month and get results. It's going to be funny watching all these 'high-volume' guys try and rationalize their way out of this one. High Volume business model is built on a premise as flimsy as a house of cards. Targeted smaller more repetitive marketing and lots of supporting guerrila marketing and a high priced service is the only business model that is going to succeed for this coming year. Guy thinking they can cast a wide net - are going to feel like gloucester fishermen after the fish populations have been fished to oblivion - cast as wide as you want, ain't nothing gonna be in the nets!

I don't know John - when were you getting these type of results? Were you getting these results until very recently? I think some folks have gotten great results in the past - with the emphasis on the past tense! Here is a guy reporting back some his results in a BBS message on a painting board in a thread started by Fenner. This guy is in Richmond Virginia - he is getting 1/3 of 1/100th of a percent callback return! Somehow I feel fortunate I got my 1/10th of one percent callback return now! Like I said this is for a single style mass mailing campaign and not Fenners' idea of a more concentrated demographic hit multiple times - with supporting local area guerrilla advertizing. ***quote*** Thank you, Ethan P.S. We are running at roughly .003% on our door hanger/flyering/direct mail attempts. We have tried other mediums to support advertise like TV, Trade Shows, etc. but I believe that we have gone after too large of markets and would benefit from focusing on smaller markets as you suggest. ***end/quote****

I know tons of women that petrified of the thought of Palin getting into office. I saw so much jubilee on the TV about how excited women were about Palin. But in real life the women I met thought she was horrid in general - she was such a contradiction, holding a seat of power - yet harkening back to the days of 'stand by your man' attitude and barefoot and pregnant mentality. In reality from what I understood - she was a real big time christian fundamentalist - who was self-aware that her fundamentalist beliefs weren't palatable to the average woman. Other than that - she was a total ding dong - and Tina Fey got her number down pat!

Dual lances are the bomb for deck resto, the reasons are as follows. 1.) A lance keeps you,the operator, a distance away from the substrate being washed, and with Deck resto - it's important to keep the tip end of the lance close to the wood - as opposed to house washing, we don't need the lance close to the home at all. 2.) With deck resto - we don't need tips to go high and low - we only need a good 'pressure' tip of 800-1000 psi - and a low pressure tip to downstream chemicals. A dual wand has these features. With house washing I have gotten away from the dual lance - but it was all I ever used before - you can do low pressure application with the built in 65 degree tip - and then turn the handle for either high elevation soap application, low elevation rinsing, or high elevation rinsing. There's the problem - you are still swapping a bunch of tips even wth a dual wand - but the great thing about dual wands, when you had an 0040 in the 'high' pressure slot - and you had the handle turned for low pressure soap application - both nozzles were emitting soap and there was amazingly low resistance in the line - so the 'draw' rates were dramatically improved. This was especially good, since the worst algae growth was always on the bottom 3 or so feet from the gound. As you turned the knob and were shooting from the 'high' pressure slot with an 0040 - downstream rates dropped - but that was ok, since algae isn't nearly as bad up high. And since I wasn't a purist about ultra low pressure rinse - I used #15 tips - as they shut off the chem flow without having to go back to the trailer - and they were reasonably low pressure, imo. An 0015 and a 4015 was used for rinsing.

what is shellguard?

John - I paid far more for my lists with infousa than .04 - .05 per thousand per mailing piece. I think last time I paid something on the order of $300 for a 3,330 list of targeted folks. If that's expensive I'd love to know where you buy yours?

For a 4x6 postcard you may squeeze into that level - but now we're into how many folks are going to respond to a 4x6 postcard vs. a much larger jumbo card that costs more money? Will a 4x6 get 2-3% callback? I think you would be lucky to get 0.25% to 0.5% callback percentages on a 4x6 postcard. I know I've done much worse. I'll throw this out - let's say you can get $0.25 per poscard - I am going to say you will get a 0.10% callback in this day in age. From 10,000 folks - I'd say from a one time mailing with a small postcard you will get about 10 folks calling you back, if you are utterly lucky you will get 25 folks calling you back. it will cost you $2,500 to get about 10 folks to call you back. If you charge an average of $461 - and land all the clients you will make $4610 - but you will have spent $2,500 getting them. For a 1.844:1 ROI.

Jim, do you ask up front what their budget is?

Even though the free flowing of knowledge on these BBS's has really helped my business grow. I've decided to severely limit information in my postings for the '09 year - and at best talk in 'abstracts'. I feel due to a decent economy in the last several years, prior to '08 - it helped more than it hurt. Now I have seen first hand the backstabbing that goes in my own little part of the world due to info I post online from the many lurkers that come here to 'take' and not to give. I don't feel this is a good practice for the long term - but I think that '09 will be a year when it will hurt oneself more than help. I think most guys in the up and coming season will use the info posted on these forums to backstab and undercut rather than use the info to help their business grow and become professionals. So I have decided to limit information in an effort to prevent local guys from sabotagin my efforts. '09 is going be a year when everyone needs an edge - and I am not going to give it away. The 'weak' hands need to disappear - and this slump is going to clean them up. Au revoir low-ballers, For whom the bell tolls, the bells toll for thee.

Most of the time there are screens in front of windows hindering your ability to close them. Personally I've just tried to be real careful applying the chems around the windows at obtuse angles. But the even bigger problem is if you leave workers that don't have the finesse of an owner - what then? Workers are bound to be sloppy.

So I am at the point where I want to add extra services to what I do - but I am very hesitant about going about advertizing it. I think the danger is that I don't want to get labeled a 'handyman'. Now why you ask is that a bad thing? Well I think there is a perception that handymen are ok/good at many things but don't specialize in anything and they aren't expensive - and folks call them for all sorts of really really small jobs. As well I looked up this guy who is a 'handyman' in my area who has taken quite a few interior paint jobs away from me {not that his work is any good} - I found out on manta that his yearly sales are 33k. And he works all the time! So where do you balance offering other services and yet not come off as handyman service? Upselling carpentry has been huge for me this year and has netted some good money that I didn't advertize for. I don't think I would want to do handyman services for clients unless they already are having other services performed by me, ie deck resto, house wash, etc.

I can see if you perhaps have a full schedule of customers and have 4 other jobs you can do that day - then fine. Move on - reschedule - come back another day. What if it's a job that's out of your way, and the only one you scheduled for that day?

Yeah - there is nothing right now that works. But I've seen so many advances in latex paints over the years that I believe one day something will work well. A waterbourne stain however will perhaps never 'nourish' a wood. But there are products like Cretowood that will petrify wood. But I guess this is all going way off topic.

Beth - I think waterbourne type finishes epoxy type finishes that are designed to 'powder' off will be the stain to use in the future on hardwoods. I know chemists that are working on acrylic type formulations that will be designed to breakdown like this vs. peeling. I guess we'll have to re-learn many aspects of woodcare in the future. I know when I use latex based primers on plaster surfaces that have no porosity - they are designed to make use of chemistry to 'stick' without being able to absorb into the substrate. A gecko climbing a wall demonstrates this ability of sticking vs. penetration. The problem with a sikkens like product is that the resins aren't really 'sticking' that well - I know with older based oil paints - the film would crack i.e. 'alligatoring' before it would peel to relieve the stresses caused by the movement of the substrate.

I think your best bet with ipe or any wood that lacks porosity is to find a stain that will 'stick' vs. penetrate. Some of the stains we use here are designed to not fully cure - the gooey part being in the pores. I think the best bet is to find a stain that 'through' cures so it is enamel hard and has the ability to stick without penetrating. Austrailian timber oil was one such stain before the VOC laws changed here in the states. Changes in formula have seemed to all resulted in 'softer' formulations that wear faster.

If the guy is an industrial/commercial cleaning specialist - why is he asking about OX solutions?

These forums original purpose is for contractors to network and educate each other - and do it cheaply. Imagine if we had all this conversation through cell phones? I am not against relaying information - but more discreetly for the next year, through pm's or private phone calls. Posting on these boards is like making a phone call with many folks wiretapping and listening to private conversations. I just feel that lately many lurkers have been using the info to backstab. Consumers are more price oriented than ever before. I believe all the statistics that folks buy on value over price - but I believe those statistics are skewed towards good economic years. I don't think those statistics adequately represent how people purchase during bad times. All I am saying is that we should be wary of what we post for the next year. And if I find a way to clean a home twice as fast as usual - the info is staying private and only being relayed to contractors privately. Sensitive info should be kept dear.

Well informing folks of my results of certain advertizing either good or bad - is something that can give my competition an edge. Informing them what I charge for deck resto, house washing, etc. This is all good info, now that being said - folks have thrown tons of good info in my direction - and I haven't acted on the majority of it. I've developped a few good ideas for marketing that I feel will have a big impact for one season or maybe two seasons before guys start to pick up on the technique - perhaps it won't work - but I think I have a good shot. And in this economy one season is enough time before most guys disappear off the map - if I let guys know my technique now, it may give them 'staying' power. Happy new year to everyone - and Jim I still love you.

I just had a really good conversation with Beth about marketing. What was really impressed upon me is how much success we derive from '09 will be in our ability to market to our prior and new customers. I myself am guilty of running a company with no truck lettering, no advertizing, not even a road side stand. And no I didn't even think about Christmas cards. Life was different back in the 90's. Success won't be due to how long our deck stain jobs last - cause we all know even the best products out there are only giving half the life they use to. Success won't be due to the latest greatest F-450 we bought. Success is going to be about how we are going to differentiate ourselves from our competitor - I've got some ideas that I am going to work on. And I am going to have to sit down and get my 'office' together. My files are a mess right now - my database of customers are just scribbled notes here and there - and half of the services I can offer aren't in any of my marketing materials. I see now - that those who are succesful in '09 are the ones that have a well 'oiled' office with an arsenal of marketing ideas and campaigns. And flinging money here and there towards guys that promise to generate business for us ain't gonna work either. It's up to us to hone our own marketing machines. I am up here in snowy New England - I've got exacly 2 months before my campaign of advertizing gets launched - it's going to be a busy 2 months! I know I still won't be anywhere near completed - but I aim to be 100% better prepared than I was this year. If '09 is going to be as bad as I think - the one thing I can definitely say - is a big thank you to '08 for giving me a big enough kick in the pants - because if the '09 that I think is coming came a year earlier - I'd be totally dead in the water.

Don't worry about sealing all sides - it's a myth in my opinion. Companies like Sikkens endorsed that idea with their dek products - because they were so prone to peeling - they needed every edge they could get. Problem is - if you don't take perfect care of the exposed surface - once water/moisutre gets into the wood - it has no where to escape now, and it really gets bad. Sounded like a good idea at the time.

I didn't think of that - Jon, I did test spots of several woodtux colors on a ptp deck - and then went over and stained the whole deck. Those areas I did the test spots came out a funky orange when I went over it when I stained the deck. I sanded those spots down to wood - and did as Jim said, I blended those areas back in with wootux and fanned out with a rag - blended in perfectly....

Tell the customer that due to the nature of incompatibility of ipe and acrylic resins - that you tried your best - but there is still nasty contaminants that are impossible to get out of the wood unless you do what Jim says - let it age for a year. Then tell him you feel bad and will come back and do it again for 75% of the first price.

They had fox news on where I was eating lunch - I think they said 150,000gpm's?