plainpainter

I've heard that if you like Bakers - that you will love A.C. - it's like a higher quality version of Bakers.

I got a 5 gallon bucket from Scott at the sealer store. I have these 20 yr. old pressure treated boards sitting under the snow in my yard. As soon as the spring comes - those boards are getting restored and will become the start of my 'testing' process. I will immediately use A.C. and woodtux on the same board and see the comparison first hand. With all these VOC changes and the constantly changing formulas - I hate that there still isn't a 'stable' stain for contractors to use.

Ken - lots of guys here practice what you do and have been helpful in their own ways. But I think you more than anyone were able to continually circumnavigate the issue - by constantly addressing the problem and presenting a solution - and then doing that repeatedly, each time changing the 'angle' slightly. You just kept plugging away. And it took me a whole season to digest the information and see it first hand. I am no Pollyanna - I needed to learn the hard way - to see for myself the reality. Having progressed through the season, changing my tactics along the way - I really saw the change. Before I came to these boards - my mentor was a guy who's pricing was and still is stuck in the 70's. I worked with guys who made fun of painters that continually advertized - we mocked that they must always be burning bridges and needed new customers. I alwayse firmly thought that I didn't need to 'sell' myself, that the quality would sell itself. While true for some folks - not enough of them out there to make a living on. But really, Ken, by listening to your info - it saved my business! I have absolutely nobody up here - nobody to learn from - nobody to compare notes to - nobody to see how to set up my rig - and nobody to show me how to wash - nobody to talk to. These forums have been an absolute priceless blessing for me. Regions do vary - and I think New England has it's 'blend' of folks that business practices down south wouldn't work up here. So taking advice from certain guys sometimes was very region specific and not helpful. It's been a tough road. I think next year will be tough as well - but it will be even tougher if I regress and my mentality starts shifting back to 'price'. More than anything I think '09 will be the year where 'price' guys are going to suffer the worst! More than anything '09 will be the year where the temptation to resist reverting back to price will be the hardest thing to do. Ken - I am working on the administration end of my business - getting a fix on my operating costs and an understanding of how important it is to track ROI. But most importantly - my presence has to be out 'there' - I have to continue a presence if I have any hope at being succesful. Price will never render a company succesful - I see that now - I see that in a healthy vibrant economy you'll still not be succesful with price - because there will be even more guys getting in the biz battling over price.

Barry - I am staying focused - I have taken good advice from you and Jarrod as well and digested it. I've thought long and hard about how you and Jarrod feel about fleet washing for instance. And not that I have decided against it - but for now I realized me approaching fleet work was basically me running away from residential work. I don't want to throw in the towel yet. And looking at over 20" of snow outside my window - I really think for me doing fleet work would really start to be a drudgery during winter. And to be honest - fleets are about price and not much else - and do I have what it takes to wash Penske trailers for $9.50/piece all day long, not knowing if they will eventually replace me with someone to go even cheaper, I don't know. So I decided to focus on the management part of my business this winter - and come out this spring with both barrels firing! I have just come up with a really cheap ultra awesome guerrila marketing tactic a couple of days ago. I've been really thinking of affordable marketing - and something that will give me an edge on the other guys. All the legalities of whether or not hangers on mailboxes is legal or not - homes with free roaming dogs - really had me ambivalent all season. But I finally invented something - and I think it will have the ability to really work to bring in the leads for me for next year if it remains a slow economy.

Don't you worry Jim - I got plenty 'o negativity in me yet! You'll see by mid February, I'll be crying a storm on these boards.

Guys - thanks for the comments - I didn't want this to come off as preachy. This was simply a recap of all my experiences this season. It's by no means a manual on what for folks to do. Lots of guys have more experience than I do. What I am thankful for is how the pressure washing industry has forced me to be better in sales. I came from the painting world - where we had no sales technique, and priced jobs low enough so we could get them. And since the average job lasted weeks - it allowed us to hob along never getting better. Pressure washing on the other hand is a 'cruel' business - if you don't get top dollar and you don't close the sales - you can go bankrupt fast. I have ideas for the next season - obviously I still won't be able to rely on an ultra high end clientale - I just don't have enough capital to advertize to these folks. I will still have to rely on more of the 'middle' customers. And I have some mind game techniqes a state policeman once showed me how they nab someone for drunkeness behind the wheel. I will apply them to some customers to get them to close on the spot - it will be interesting to see how they work.

I wrote these posts for several reasons, John. Firstly - everything I found out towards the end of the season - I had already been told in explicit detail by these guys before the season had begun. I even remember listening to it - it's not like it went out the other ear. And I am a smart guy - I have a double degree in physics and mathematics *** laude. If I can go through a whole season before I 'get' it. So can alot of folks I imagine. It took me a whole season to begin to understand lots of the information these guys gave me. The whole part of being professional is the 'Feature' of our companies - and the benefits to the customer are endless - this is what sells! That's how we get folks to sign! It is precisely the 'lure' that hooks the customer in. Now from that point on it's all technique - like the fisherman that pulls too hard too early - and loses the fish - there ways to 'step' through the process to make sure they securely 'hooked'. That's where I am at now. But I finally realized it was this simple - when you are professional - folks that want that professionalism are the ones attracted to you - and expect to be charged appropriately. When I spend an hour cleaning some gutters out - and say ma'am that's $95 on top of the scheduled deck wash - these folks understand and they pay. Advertizing in cheap media - running a 'chinsy' operation - looking like a slob. Folks expect you to play the part all the way to, ma'am that gutter cleaning is $29.99. These folks expect they are taking a risk - but they love an ultra cheap deal - they want to pick the guy apart so perhaps they can talk him down from his already atrociously cheap price. If you portray a professional image - you'll never attract these price shoppers - or at least you will attract them very infrequently.

When the season began - I spent much more time talking - I was basically reading a script. Towards the end of the season when I was much more succesful I was listening more. I was addressing their concerns much more and asking them questions. I figured out the only way to do a feature/benefits analysis was to listen to them more and ask them questions. I realized you could 'can' a ton of different topics that could bore the homeowners to death. The reason I was called to their home I found out was that I had already earned a certain amount of trust - of all the contractors they researched they chose a select few to 'interview'. And like an interview - they asked me questions that were important to them - and were listening for certain answers. And like an interview, when I asked if I had questions - I indeed started asking them questions - expounding their initial concerns and addressing them with more questions. I realized I no longer had to sell them on 'hot' pressure washing for instance or whatever buzzword is out there. And when I was asked about if I do 'hot' pressure washing - while initially during the beginning of the season I was totally stumped and lost the job. By the end of the season I had met that question and trounced the idea to the point the homeowner had totally ruled out that contractor. And I also realized that it's important to see if there is more than one contractor and insist on being last - or at least not schedule an appointment too soon. Keep them waiting until the weekend or something - most other guys are frothing at the mouth to deliver an estimate too soon. And they are the same guys who will blow it off if they wait too long.

So after 80-90% of my season was over - I was now conducting business better, closing more leads and meeting with more congenial folks - by September/October time frame - I actually liked doing business with my customers - I really liked these people and really loved working with them to achieve a service that otherwise would be too time consuming and dangerous for them to do alone. What changed? And how come it couldn't have come sooner when I was getting far more leads earlier in the year? That 900lb gorilla was actually coming out of the corner and heading for the front door. What changed? I had remembered all the things Ken Fenner talked about, how Michael Kreisle always talking about professionalism - how Brian Phillips talked about differentiating yourself from an 'in-the-bucket' technician and not worrying about price. But still what was different. Well first I had changed. My vehicle had undergone several revisions of advertizing - it was much more a focal point of my business. I had been more vigilant about putting my A-frame sign out during my jobs and those lawn signs. I was appearing to these homeowners well atired with clipboard and promotional material. I focused how I didn't intrude onto their landscapes with my equipment other than two hoses - I set up 'caution' signs for pedestrians - blanketed over hoses going over the sidewalks. I was performing services to 'convenience' the homeowner more - I was watching out for them - I was protecting their fragile rose bushes. I was educating them where to park their vehicles. I realized I was communicating with my customer better what was needed to conduct a worry free service - and yet deliver the 'goods' - I was not the slack jawed technician who thought nothing of trampling over precious flower beds - I was protecting their interests. I had also realized that by charging my price - I was able to continually afford my advertizing - I wasn't dropping in and out like my competitor. And since I was charging a good rate - I was well capitalized to focus on my business. My competitor has a landscaping business as well - and once landscaping became time consuming - he simply dropped the ball, as the season progressed, I often was the only one showing up asking for the job. But then it really hit me what happened. I had a conversation with a person I know in my local coffee shop about business. And she told me, don't ever get one of those big fangled fancy looking ads in the newspaper or the yellow pages. Because when she went looking - she assumed when she saw those ads - those guys were expensive - and she wasn't going to hire someone expensive! And she told that if I wanted work that I shouldn't be like them! Poof - suddenly what everyone told me all collided at once and I suddenly came to a realization. When some guys above said miracles would happen when you raised price - they also said you had to look the part. All these guys and their advice all converged to one thing! We communicate to the customer by our actions and how we market ourselves - what we as a business are all about. When you have professional equipment, logo'd shirts hats, professional contracts. When we maintain a marketing presence with professional literature and advertisements. We are symbolicly conveying a message to the public that we are professional - we focus on a professional service - and right off the bat the folks that are attracted to that message - are exactly the folks who demand a quality service and already understand that professional price goes hand in hand. A light bulb went off in my head - what all these guys were saying suddenly made sense. By being professional - we are already pre-qualifying customers right off the bat! Price is demoted far down the list of importance. We don't need all the sales pitch, or 20% off to promote business. We are promoting a service that a high end client demands. Although I am not nearly all the way there - by the end of the season I was seeing all this first hand. It's not 100% - but certainly I was never meeting with folks anymore that entertained a 'do-it-all' service for $199. My customers were savvy - these were the folks that didn't trust the low priced guy - they were not interested in a commodity priced service. By the end of my season I had built up a professional presence that these homeowner were attracted to - and I was 'their' man. I was charging appropriately - winning the estimates and gaining confidence in the homeowners eyes - they all want me back next season. And after talking to several folks - the people aren't going to hide even during a recession - these folks are alway going to want someone that can look after their property and help them keep them maintained. They aren't looking for 'cheap' even during a recession.

Although I had noticed that the folks I had started doing business after I started quoting minimums were much nicer folks to do business with. Problems indeed crept up. The first problem I had noticed is that after quoting minimums sometimes I had indeed set the expectation too low. For instance I was adamant that I wasn't going to go visit a prospect for an estimate and then follow up another day to do work unless I was getting a minimum of $350. The more I had analyzed my #'s the less sense it made. So Now here I was giving a minimum - and the customer was great, when can you come over? So now my frustration - huge homes, painted clapboard homes that were more difficult to wash, protect adjacent porch flooring from chems and more obstacles. Some homes were in the $700 range for a simple wash - due to their sheer sized, some homes were like 6500sq.ft McMansions. Then I realized I had set the expectation too low! Of course these folks would be happy to pay only $350 - these homes were enormous. So when I gave them higher estimates - I started getting the 'I thought it was only going to be $350?' Again I had shot myself in the foot. Another problem I ran into - some folks didn't care what I said over the phone. All they wanted was an estimate in the mailbox - I had obliged them thinking, well if they didn't see a problem with my initial price - they aren't going to be 'price' shoppers, correct? Wrong. It turned out, unless I met face to face - I still had a high loss rate. What to do? And a mounting opposition on these boards to my technique of 'disqualifying' - and remarks that I was giving away 'golden' oppurtunities to get in front of the client. I was fearful to again confront 'angry' homeowners - but armed with about now 4-5 months behind me, I was armed with a better lettered truck, had more printed fliers and brochures - and a more polished introduction and the benefits of going with my company. I had realized I was actually giving away jobs to my competitors by bringing up my 'minimums'. I was starting to turn around folks, overcoming price. And realized in my attempts to make 'price' irrelevent - that I in fact was making 'price' the major component of decision making, by bringing it up. Why was I now selling better after 5 months - yet I was showing up not informing prior what to expect - what was I doing different, yet selling more jobs, and overcoming objections?

During this time - I remember the many lines of some guys like Kreisle - saying to raise your pricing and a miracle will happen. Fenner talking about projecting a professional image, brochures, logo'd t-shirts, professional website - yeah yeah I remember thinking - but how do I get folks to sign! So after a month, month and half, I thought about some of my initial meetings. The older couple who were extremely well off, upon when I submitted my proposal to wash 4,300 sq.ft of vinyl siding and several hundreds of linear feet of vinyl fencing, The wife Shrieked - 'That's almost $500!!!! - and then I had to listen to them moaning and groaning for 15 minutes - thinking about the hour drive I made to deliver an estimate and the hour back, all the wasted time and expensive gas. Then another 'gentleman' upon which wanted an estimate to clean similarly sized home - over 200 feet length of gutter inside and out - some of which was 30 feet in the air. When I handed him an estimate for approx. $800 - he laughed at me, told me the 2 other guys wanted $220 & $270 respectively and that he figured he would get 3 quotes - and then told me to get the hell off his property. Again a nice thank you for an hour's drive. Something had to give - I couldn't keep delivering estimates at sometimes over an hour way drive, much of it highway speeds when gas was $4+ a gallon and my van was only getting 15-16 mpg's. I just couldn't compete with someone willing to do all that work for what I estimated to be at best $30/hr of hard labor! And to consider all the overhead of running a legit company - insurances, advertizing, expenses. Why was I being scolded so much? Why were some folks getting so angry at me? At this point - even with my relatively low overhead of a company I had already gotten several draw-downs - I wasn't getting rich! Why the problem? So I decided I was somehow going to see what these folks expectation of how much a job cost. I took some advice about minimum pricing - and then I started telling folks on the initial phone call that I had a minimum price in order to conduct business. Right away I was met with hesitation - some would say 'why so much?' Why can't you clean 1/4 my house for 1/4 the money???? I had to insist they simply didn't have business sense, restaurants can't offer half a plate of food for half price and make money - it just doesn't work that way. So amazingly at least half of the folks that called me right away decided I wasn't going to do business with them. Aha! Instantly I was driving around a lot less, doing less proposals - and closing a higher percentage of the proposals I did write.

My opinion is this is the fate of most yellow page books - I think most contractors tend to keep them only because their ad is in them. I wonder what this poll would look like if we asked homeowners.

perhaps I will post another poll for the Yellow Book - or do you want to post it John?

You know how the Republicans killed the bill to give the auto makers a loan citing how union auto wages are making american cars uncompetitive. IT's total horse$hit! Check out this link - down below it explains what percentage of the total cost of the average vehicle that labor costs are. Chrysler says to shut down all production for month - Yahoo! News If you don't feel like reading this link - let me tell you - all labor costs represents only 10% of the total selling price of an average vehicle!!!!!

What's there to be picky about in house washing??? John you have to learn to loosen up.

I am not saying unions are perfect - but they evolved from the harsh abuses from factory owners of the 19th century. Back then folks had absolutely no recourse - they were treated like crap - and kicked to the curbside whenever they felt like. My Great Grandfather and his family owned textile plants in northern France in the 19th century. One day a worker complained to him about working conditions - and you know what his answer was? He pulled a gun and shoved it in his face and told him to get back to work. Is that the life you want to go back to?

Why couldn't you hire one before?

I don't understand your logic? You claim accepting a job for a certain wage and then joining a union is somehow not right? Because there is a possibility of demanding more money and walking off? And that's blackmale? ??? Excuse me - is it blackmale when I worked for engineering companies - and some engineer went to the manager and asked for a better raise and threatened to leave? It's called empowerment of the people! It's called bartering. How about the law of supply and demand - low supply of workers, higher demand for salaries! What you describe sounds something like slavery - working for the man, with no recourse to change your destiny. A union is simply the solidarity of a group of people to improve their working conditions. But heck -maybe you skipped class that day when they talked about 19th century working conditions in factories - if you had studied that - maybe you'd understand the evolution of unions and characters like Jimmy Hoffa.

It's towards the bottom - the paragraph to the right of the picture - I am posting the paragraph here.... The more than 30,000 Chrysler workers in the United States represented by the UAW receive nearly full benefits and wages during plant shutdowns, but labor costs represent only about 10 percent of the total cost of the average vehicle.

Oh - my god I never thought of that!!!!!! Your site would be a perfect place to market and sell a DIY'er painting tool. This tool is awesome - I love it myself. There have been many attempts out there to come up with a decent cutting tool - but they have all been 'over' thought. This is so simple it actually works!

Jon - you need help? Man I could use some sunshine right now.

You're probably right! I myself have no way of making money off that trend - I am a service provider - total 180 opposite from DIY. I actually just invented a real time saver for interior painting - such a stupidly simple thing that I am prototyping right, initial result are really good, the idea came out of the blue a few months ago when I was frustrated with interior production rates and the 'going' rate for interior jobs. Know a patent lawyer - LOL.

I hate myself for actually giving this some thought... Crime Scene Cleanup Suicide Accident Trauma Scene Cleaning Services

Jim - you think there is business in pressure washing blood off highways? LOL

I think this recession is like a cold front coming out of Canada heading south. Seems to me the most northern guys are the first to notice/observe/complain. Jarrod was like the first to bring it up until he got booed of these forums. Just the other day a friend of mine described a $4000 Interior paint job being done for $1,700 by immigrant crews - and the house wife shopped a bunch of painters to death. The husband is a surgeon - and I got the inside scoop from a pharmacist that knows where to look for salary info - the husband makes a 4 million yearly salary! Even the rich folks are shopping for the ultra lowest price now. My friend upon noticing that it wasn't exactly the nicest highest end paint job - the wife exclaimed, I know it isn't great - but I got exactly my money's worth! We're living in scary times. BTW - it took a crew of 3 guys 4 days to do that job! That's about $17.70/hr including materials - give that some thought!