plainpainter

Here is a stain I have been dying to use, not what I am use to spreading. Don't know if this product is a parafinnic product, although I was told it has long oil alkyds - but it has drying issues and just soaks into the wood massively. I modified it somewhat to work - and it worked awesome! Just one coat hand application got results on this deck. As a sidenote - this little deck must be the hardest deck I have ever worked on in my career, just loads of difficulty factors that I didn't see coming. From painted trimmed railings/posts. To decking boards that were just covered by some solid stain, impossible to totally remove, and 3 feet long shards of wood constantly coming up when I tried sanding it and defurring it, and moisture problems that lasted for days and days and days and days....

I was looking at a bunch of photos and found out that TWP 100 Cedartone is a real light pumpkiny tone, it's interesting that for the 500/1500 series they took the same color name, cedartone, and made it much browner. Has some of those funky purple highlights in the summer grain wood just like Woodtux/timberoil had - though not as bad.

Beautiful job Charlie! Now do that neighbor right and put some TWP stain on it.

Here are some post cleanup pics of a simple bleach downstreamed house wash solution. I think of all of Jake's stains, his 'toners' are probably the best unadulterated. They are the thinnest from my notes in terms of coverage rates {they have the lowest coverage rates, so I am thinking greater penetration} I will go back and take pics of how it came out in a week or so. I used just slightly more than half the original amount of stain when I restored it two years ago. I will document the whole process from original restoration - how it will look 20-24 months later - how it cleans up - and recoat. And show this to prospective clients as an honest summary of what they can expect. Maybe you just can't get that almost like new finish two years after the fact unless you are using a real hard tung oil based film former. This finish also had much less mildew than the semitransparents. I am going to keep track of my notes - but I think I know what's wrong witht the semitransparent finishes.

Tony - we all live in different areas, that deck is a little too faded for my taste at the 24 month mark - but acceptable. At least it's not black. A woman described a deck of mine that looked probably like that at the one year mark for a deck that's in the shade.

Are you buying the 500 series or 1500? Let me know, and I'll tell you how I modified it - although you're probably more expert in this department than I am.

Rick, what's the closest color in Readyseal that looks like this stain?

Looks good! Do you worry about the readyseal running down onto that concrete foundation as it weathers?

These decks, including one fenner posted have been very far off the ground like 12+ plus. How about one that is more in the normal range of only several feet off the ground?

I modify the stain now, and I am thinking of putting the modified stain on half the deck and the unmodified stain on the other half to see if I am getting any more longevity. I hate to do this to a customer - but she seems cool with the product as is, after SPF, anything will make this lady happy.

I was reading some literature from gemini coatings about the prep of old wood - and they gave a few options, interestingly they say if you sand a deck down that you should rinse it with water on 2-3 different days afterwards. Anybody hear anything like this?

Jake, You should love me, and I'll explain why. Because I am very vocal in alerting you to some very deep issues with your stain. Because there are many others, who not as vocal as me, do not appreciate your product and will never tell you. You will just quietly lose their sales and never know why. I've told you about mildew - and you know I am not the only one. I've told you about how it doesn't hold to bleach clean at anything north of 1% - and nothing strong enough to clean the mildew. Have you done anything to address these issues? Listen, you can hate my critique - but you can't change reality - if more contractors have the same experiences for themselves that I have had - they aren't going to stop buying the product because what I said, they're going to stop buying the product because of their own experience. And I am honest - if someone came to me and said they had a miserable failure with your product on Fir - I'd tell 'em it had nothing to do with the stain and it's just endemic to that particular species of wood. I know I have already lost customers using your product - I had a gentleman pay me handsome money restoring his hardwood deck, and I will say your product looks beautiful upon application. He told me that 9 months after I initially laid down the stain - 100% of it was totally gone - and that was the reason why he did not consider me for helping him out again. So I will lay back with the critique - although I thought perhaps it may motivate you to improve your stain - because I think it has potential. In the meantime I will start another thread and show many of the decks I restored over the past 2 years from start to finish - using your product - and I will put my work against anyone I have ever seen on these forums.

Well here is a typical deck, the boards on the far left are stripped and brightened, the boards in the middle are sanded, and then of course the boards on the right are stained.

Rick - I thought I had a 'fair and honest' method of restoring wood, from what I can tell I think I sand a heck of a lot more than most guys here. But I am having difficulty with a certain stain made in California, it gets ruined with mildew in short time and it doesn't hold up to a maintenance wash {at least not one strong enough to kill the mildew growing on it} so I am kind of going out of my mind right now - especially when others say they have no problems with the product. Frankly, my decks look brand new just prior to staining - and just re-thinking my process to see if I could be doing anything wrong?

BTW - when did I ever say it was hard?

Rick, I think it's healthy to question our methods from time to time. TWP/Gemini is a legitimate company - and they wrote something that was different from what I was doing. I've wondered in the past about the stripping/brightening process before my sanding. So I am trying something a little different from my usual methods to see if I get different results.

There are 3 categories, new wood, old wood, sealed wood. The one I am referring to is sealed wood, since that is what I most come up against - having to remove a previous sealer. Then they say the entire surface is to be washed with a 50/50 bleach water solution and rinsed. Then the finish can be removed one of 3 ways - by using a chemical stripper and following manufacturers directions, by sanding of sealer by 60-80 grit, or by power washing. And if you take the sanding option - then they say to rinse the deck with water on two to three different days afterwards. The new wood section said to let it weather between 4-12 months. then a bleach clean. Part of me is thinking that in my efforts to turn out sweet work - I am actually revealing a surface of wood that actually should be chemically cleaned and pores opened again. I am experimenting with my own deck now - where I stripped/washed last year {didn't neutralize} and now a year later I am sanding it down everywhere - afterwards will give a percarb clean and acid bath - then stain.

That's interesting, because I use a floor sander on a deck after stripping and brightening. You still think it needs to be washed again after using a floor sander with 40/60 grit pads?

Gemini is the maker of TWP stains.

They're probably using just percarbonate bleach. I know guys will acid adjust after oxygen type bleach clean - but I don't think it's really needed. Maybe that's what they're doing

I love it when homeowners think they can do the job, LOL. That deck is one instance where I would buy ReadySeal stain and flush all the bare wood spots. Then I would let it sit for a year and strip it again - and again flush all the wood with ReadySeal. It will take 10 years, but eventually it will look pretty good.

Yeah I put warrantees on my work will do my customers right at the end of 2 years for a fraction of the price, but I have all these mahogany customers where my staining is literally just washed out at the end of 12 months. Not happy with stain longevity, especially since I never heard much complaints until you get to ipe. This never seems to be an issue with pressure treated - I am sick of this business, it's not my fault that staining products don't do what people want them to do.

Thanks Charlie, I'll pm you the recipe

Is it a different composition from the remainder of the line? Does it have more curing resins vs. seal oils?

Jim - this Mahogany deck last year took in very little stain - I do sand all my work with a floor sander. I noticed with Mahogany there is this layer kind of dark 'scum' wood that remains even after a sodium hydroxide strip and acid balance. So I like to sand that layer off as much as possible before the staining.