plainpainter

I would change one thing. When you get to the part about how it seals out moisture - throw in a guy peeing on the deck.

Looks awesome! So how long does woodzotic last on that wood before needing a follow up coat?

So with several BBS not around anymore - I just found out about Deckguide not being up anymore. Is interest in these online forums waning? Have the halcyon years of posting knowledge on these online forums have come and gone? It must get repetitive for lots of people here to discuss stripping and neutralizing all the time. Even though I was a one step tsp/bleach kind of guy just 2 years ago myself. Hopefully there will be new product developments in '08 to keep our interest.

I use an airless for decking stains - I tarp all areas that I don't want overspray - and dial down the pressure and put on a different tip to minimize overspray. Then it takes no time to stain a deck.

I painted this house in apr and may of '07 - and I had some leftover wtw from sept '06. Now the deck I stained with product back in '06 still looks great. But at the end of my painting job in spring of '07 - this guy put on brand spanking new Fir steps. And I coated them like 3 days later with wtw, didn't prep at all - wood was still brand new. Now I just walked over to look at them today - and they don't that good. Is this a problem with new wood? Is Fir hard to coat like ipe and mahogony? I did absolutely nothing to prep - these boards were only 3 days old, fresh from the lumberyard. Makes me think if I am going to stain brand brand new wood - I should still prep it somehow - and this isn't pressure treated wood, if pressure treated fir even exists - it was just regular straight grained fir decking boards. The stuff decks use to be built of prior to invention of ptp. Any thoughts?

Ken - so even if the wood looks brand spanking new - you'd still give it a perhaps more mild version of a 2 step cleaning process? I don't really care - I basically did this as a freebie. Just want to know for a paying customer in the future. I've noticed this with cedar clapboard siding that comes non-primed vs. factory primed. Somehow they treat boards, like cleaning with acetone prior to priming - and any finish you put on lasts. The unprimed - nothing seems to stick unless you age it for like 2 years - then clean with a stripper and neutralize.

Beth - I was curious, in your area as well as delaware - they have enacted that very strict VOC change. Is there any hard data to support that there is less pollution in your area as a result? I don't mind the EPA legislating this stuff - but I would also like them to be accountable as well, with proof that their enforcements of low VOC's is in fact doing what they say it should be doing. I for one with my understanding on how VOC's and nitrous oxides combine to form low level smog, can't for the life of me - figure out how lessening VOC's in coatings is going to reduce ground level smog conditions? It is absolutely insane and ignores the real problem - nitrous oxide emitting auto tailpipes - that is the supply side of this smog equation. And smog is directly a function of the amount of this substance. VOC's on the other hand come from natural sources such as trees in the form of isoprenes and terpenes and in levels of much greater magnitude than we as mankind could ever dream of emitting artificially from coatings and such.

What we will have to learn is that oil based coatings allow caustics to remove them and acrylics are removed by using acids. I am sure guys like Russell will have an acidic version of HD-80 for removing acrylic stains. But It will be nasty stuff!

The one thing I hate about this country is how our economy is solely based upon growth, growth, growth. The continent of America isn't getting bigger - we can't support exponential population growth forever and the new home construction and economy to go with it. Why can't we as a nation be happy with a steady state income? I guess the stock market would stop growing - and that wouldn't make people happy, boo hoo.

I know how I don't run out of water....I use a 5.5gpm instead. I think going from a 5.5 to an 8gpm machine - although extremely fast just opens up a whole new can of worms - and imo not worth it if you are doing just residential. Guys who like to wash fleets or miles of pavement - it makes a difference - but rinsing a house? Or a deck? Must be lovely hauling around 525 gallons of water to jobsites.

I read it somewhere, but can't remember where. All I know, is that all these products that were suppose to be off the shelf on new years 2006/2007 are still here in 2008. Supposedly - these lobbyists basically told washington, that products like latex based primers for bare wood - just ain't cutting the cheese and really never will be able to. I definitely do not think we will ever have the array of solvent based coatings like in the 70's - but we are keeping certain things. goto California Paints and locate a dealer near you - there are some in Silver Spring, California, potomac, Bethesda.

To be honest with you Beth - if you have tried California's Endurdeck Hardwood oil stain {just using a more commercially available product for comparisons sake} I'd say that VOC changes haven't had any impact whatsoever. Because of this I am very suspect that these companies were at the mercy of these 2005 changes. I'd say they were more suspect of milking their reputation and taking out quality ingredients. Not to mention California's stain is New England based and contains way over these so-called 2005 VOC limits. Paint companies went to bat along with lobbyists and these EPA changes have been rolled back - heck Cabots contains 'exempt' mineral spirits - which pushes their VOC's way over so-called 2005 limit of 250 vs. 550 units.

Bob has them even if they aren't listed on his website, just give him a call.

you won't have any problems.

I like 4gpm machines - if money is really tight - you can certainly get by with a 4gmp machine. Before I ever came to this site - people thought of 4gpm machines to be extravagently huge. And were often cited as for professional purposes. I have a 5.5gpm cold water machine from Bob - and I think it cooks - but then you have guys here who think 8-10gpm machines are where it's at. Who knows - perhaps if you're going to condo buildings and such. But you can get a good amount work done in a residential setting with a 4gpm machine - unless you really need to do lots of surface cleaning - there you really need a bigger machine. But for wood deck restorations and cleaning smaller ranch type homes - 4gpms' all the way.

I am a downstreamer, but I have often wondered if the x-jet has a slight advantage on those really f-ing nasty wood sided homes that have like thick encrusted moss vegetation all over the place - something that hasn't been cleaned in like 40 years.

How often do you post the ad? And how much do you have to change the ad each time - so as not to be considered 'flood'ing?

This is what craigslist is all about - where cheap contractors meet cheap homeowners.

good riddance

It seems each year has a certain flavor, one year it's the bleach war, the next year it's the sealant year. Other than a little war that happened earlier this year - not much discussion on what products ( deck stains/sealants) people used this year and if they're happy with it. Of course there was oxalic vs. citric acid debate and Rick Petry gave some good insight as to what you might expect if used on ipe with a parafinic based stain. So what stains did people use this year, and what results have you gotten - or it too early to tell? I used WTW, Timber Oil, and California's EnduraDeck hardwood oil stain. Any other promising products?

My friends grandfather use to do that work. He saw too many comrades fall to their death, and decided to eventually open a diner on Nantucket - those were the days before platforms - where they just had ropes behind their backs.

Steelers fans are none too happy this morning.

Ok this is a totally subjective test that is basically comparing apples to oranges, i.e. one coat of woodtux vs. 2 coats of timberoil done 6 weeks apart; the woodtux finish is months older than the timberoil; and the list goes on and on. But all that aside, timberoil beads water so incredibly even 2 months after the second application - where as I went back to do some interior painting for a customer that I had refinished their deck with wtw this summer - and I looked at it after a rain - and it wasn't beading water at all. I will be curious to see how the timberoil finish survives the winter and what kind of maintenance it will need next year. I still have no intention of bringing timber oil to my customers - until I see a niche for it - or a customer demands it. Although I am seeing it's application to decks adjacent to chlorinated pools - where any finish is totally killed - and something like timber oil would always blend back in without looking splotchy.

Jim - I think you are a genius. My personal timber oil deck still looks great like 2 months after the 2nd application - with water still beading. I can see how this will work for customers - where they get use to a price to pressure wash and stain. And with parafinnic oil stain - like you said - year after year, there is less oil you will need to saturate into the wood. Yet you can still charge the same amount of money. Now I am saying this in regards to pressure treated - I don't have experience with hardwoods. As well - you don't have to worry about wear patterns - splotchiness, when you layer stain over stain. I did 3 sizeable decks this year - with the improved wtw batch - one new deck, with just a TSP/Bleach/surfactant house mix - as it was just less than a year old. And then two full restoration decks. I am curious as well - and I will compare to how my Oct. '06 woodtux jobs holds out.

Jon - I agree wholeheartedly that Dem's aren't much different. I just latch onto the historical part of the democratic party. Afterall, with some research, I have basically found that if you go back to 1880's - there didn't exist a middle class in the sense of the 20th century. And that FDR gave rise to our great middle class, and I'd like to support that way of life. My dream is that the democrats represent the far right - I don't want any party further to the right than them.