plainpainter

Nice work. Beth, how long in business did it take before you landed jobs like this?

I did a few steps for this one lady - basically I was at this house doing a little of this - a little of that - yard work - tree work - some painting of window sills - cleaning out the gutter with the pressure washer - and then cleaning her wood and then staining them. Just low end residential maintenance jobs -where wtw worked, was I stained the wood immediately after washing it, it was like 3 steps and something I didn't want to have to come back for. So I ragged off the water and put a first coat of stain that looked like some lemon fizzy bath, let that settle and brushed on a second coat and then collected my check and left. WTW has it's place. But for high end jobs - I learned my lesson, just wait for it to dry out and defur. Once defurred or sanded I guess you could then neutralize and then stain.

Kevin - it's what I mix the Raw linseed oil with - and I have tried my recipe with 4 or so different brands of Raw linseed oil. It's not a deck stain - but more of penetrant that's meant to soak into the wood. But it sure does look like a beautiful stain at first. Maybe I will try putting some trans oxide tints into - to see what happens.

I just mixed my first gallon of the year of my famous wood pre-tratment that uses raw linseed oil as its main ingredient. And the stirring rod I used mix it with is totally dry! And no mildew will grow on this stuff!

I just don't understand why a product that uses a linseed modified alkyd is having such problems curing. Most of the linseed oil primers I use aren't even modified alkyds - they are just the raw ingredients and they don't seem to have any problems curing. I thought that a bodied linseed oil is already polymerised in the can, would only have to wait for the spirits to leach out and then it is automatically cured. Heck I have splashed Raw linseed oil into wood prior to priming - and looked back two weeks later, and certain dribbles were totally cured, rubbery yes, but cured. I have made mixtures of boiled linseed oil and acetone and dunked into my paint brush handles after the wood has been swollen with water while cleaning {to prevent the wood from shrinking away from the ferrule} and it cured in about 3 days.

Russell have you ever considered going from a 'boiled' linseed oil that uses dryers, to a fully polymerised 'bodied' linseed oil? If I understand this correctly the old oil based primers use to be a mixture of Raw linseed oil and bodied linseed oil - since there are no dryers present in the 'Bodied' linseed oil - the Raw linseed oil was free and unperturbed to dive deep into the wood without being corrupted by dryers present in the 'boiled' linseed oil. So once the spirits where evaporated - you already had a cross-linked surface layer.

why neutralize after the efc-38? Doesn't Russell say you don't have too?

What happened to all the bleach lovers? Shane, would you not recommend bleach cleaning on this deck? James - what chems would you use on this deck? Will EFC-38 lose it's fanbase to the ever adjustable HD-80? LOL. I guess if I had to worry about cleaning 10 decks a day - I'd get real efficient as well. But the height of my efficiency is to downstream a bleach, TSP, surfactant recipe onto the deck. So far ok.

A word from the wise - I have profiled customers who tend to chisel you down as the worst sorts. Every time I have been chiseled down, in reality I was chiseled down even further. They are right up there with customers that want partial work - or they want you to paint their walls and separate out the cost to paint the trim, etc. If you want to do yourself a favor, remain steady on your price. Who signed the contract, him or the wife or both? I make both parties sign and let them know up front that either has choice over the other at the time that I may ask a question. If that was me, I would have said - uh - I asked your wife, she approved - and as stated on the estimate work could commence, if you want a change order that will be extra. People who try to make you for little to no profit - I wouldn't give them the time of day. I just gave an estimate to paint a house for $17,000 - and they haven't called back - because I am sure they will get estimates for $8,000. But guess what I will end up working for $8/hr and eating and breathing lead dust that will affect my health and kill my summer. Life is too short, if they can't pay - let 'em go with the cheap guys - let 'em suffer like that.

I have never tried x-jetting, and I am glad I listened to folks like Ken about downstreaming. The downstreamer that came with my troy-bilt 4.0/3800 psi machine is a pathetic 19:1. Still with 3.5 gallons of 12.5%, surfactant and TSP - I was able to clean a 2600 sq. ft home and deck and detached garage by myself, wheeling around the pressure washer *not stationary on a trailer* in 2 hours. Sure I had to soap 2 sides, go back and reapply and then triple up on some bad spots. But even with that *weak* downstreaming ration - it still kicked off all the mildew and grime with more dwell. If anything it wasn't holding me up - kicking the heavy pressure washer around and untangling hoses all the time far exceeded the time needed for chems to dwell. And oh yes - not one micron of damaged vegetative matter! And no chems misting the neigborhood - had an 0030 tip. Downstreaming 4-EVA!!!!!

How do you charge for sanding? Or do you end up doing it for free?

Rod - just curious why are you modifying your HD-80 with chems from ACR? How come you aren't using Russell's additives that he sells?

The thing I don't like about the internet is when my customers educate themselves about painting and then won't leave me alone about stuff - oh, you can't paint in direct sun, you can't paint above 90 degrees, below 50 degrees, you can't stain damp wood - and on and on and on. Sometimes it makes me wonder who the painter is and who is the worker

Mike Citralic is a brand name that Russell uses for his acid which is a blend of citric and oxalic - Rick on the other hand uses a straight citric acid on his woods. If you don't mind joining the tests of oxalic vs. citric. Why not try brightening one side of your deck with citric and the other with oxalic and try using WTW. This would ammend Ricks tests using Ready Seal.

Definitely want to change the oil too! As a rich gas mixture will get past your rings and into the oil. If you're 'lucky' the cylinder walls will be ruined. Make sure to do a compression test after you have flushed the oil and are about to change the spark plug. A friend of mine ruined a 4 bolt main 350 from too rich a gas mixture. Oh yes - after changing the motor oil - and before replacing the plugs - shoot some Marvil mystery oil directly into the combustin chambers through the open spark plug hole - and turn it over so those rings get some oil back in them - then do a compression test. And hopefully all will be fine.

Rick - very stunning work. In your estimation - how long will your deck look this nice? Looking at your deck makes me bored working with PT. But then again - not having to educate customers as to why a stain won't last more than 6 months, when they think it should last 6 years - is a load off my back.

Here is a one year old deck that came along with my house painting job. I downstreamed my house cleaning bleach solution, several times, a little scrubbing, rinsed and then neutralized with Bob's oxalic brightener at 9ozs. per gallon.

Hey Russell - I know now why you market this to only professionals, because you have given us more lattitude and decision making. Where as other products are more about the company holding the homeowners hands. You have given us a product that allows us to fine tune our business models and needs - it's just a new thing for me. But that being said - wow, your stain doesn't flash like ordinary stains, it soaks right in! It seems to have a feel of one of those penetrating type stains. And if people call this a film former - it's only because, you get that as well on top of the penetration. And I like it overall because it has lots of linseed oils w/out too much alkyds making it rock hard - it just soaks and soaks. BTW - this was stain I bought last fall, hope the formula hasn't changed.

I've read this information before on Russell's site - and have always been rinsing. That being said - the woodtux job looks better each day. Russell - would you not recommend treating a deck the same day it is pressure washed for future purposes? Maybe I pushed the original intent of your product a little too far. That being said several neigbors have been awing at the deck and want me to do their decks now. Great product. With all these VOC laws - can't trust anyone else these days.

Russell said this product is not for staining the same day? Now I am just downright confused - I thought that was what all the advertizing about. Thanks Jason for the F-18 advice. I will keep it in mind for newly constructed decks. I am sure stripper would work much better - still have to tarp off patio doors with that enamel paint.

First the customer loves the deck - it looks really good in person, albeit there are constructive critisms to take. I still have to digest what everyone has said. But I can say this - the deck faces east - and the eastern part of the yard is met by a forest - so sunlight doesn't start hitting it until the sun is pretty well moved along. I am more mad about the furries - wtw is really oily though and still seems to be soaking in even days after the job. And not to mention - this was the first deck I didn't wait for it to dry out. I stained it the same day I washed it. And I applied the solution like 4 times repetitively in sequence - hoping the 'dwell' of chemicals to do the job. I almost reached for my tried and true methods of scrub brush with a 5'er - which has always worked. First time downstreaming chemicals on deck - and I thought they were in the same strenghts I had used on past decks - will have to check my downstreamer to see for sure what my chemical strengths are. And again my methods always seemed to work well on older decks. I like the idea of downstreaming stripper - but I have knocked off paint off of patio doors once doing that - so it involves much more tarping - which I wasn't willing to do. Will try the sodium percarb route next time - did a few wood cleanings last year that way, and greyed wood seemed to float away better. I almost think it's easier starting with a 7-8 yr. old deck where I have to strip an old failing staing - neutralize - wait a few days to dry and stain. I have done a few decks well that way.

To an answer Jarrod's question - I didn't overapply everything got the same amount of stain. I hand brused the railings and spindles first and hand brushed all the boards, one at a time. To answer Shane's question - I washed this deck along with whole house, then I washed it again 2 weeks later with my house cleaning solution, applied it like 4 times - did a little scrubbing, where mildew was persistent. It was 3.5 gallons of bleach and 1.5 gallons of water, 10 cups of TSP and 20 ozs. of nonylphenol downstreamed with my troy-bilt 3.8GPM 13hp honda. Then I used my smaller pressure washer a 2.3GPM @ 2900psi and put on a tip I made from parts Bob sent me - it's a 40 degree tip and #7 or .007 - you basically can put your hand in the stream, anyways I used this rinse. I had my helper try it - almost seems it wasn't enough pressure. And then I pumped up 9 oz. per gallon of oxalic from Bob's - let it dwell. Then rinsed off with a hose. Got lots of furries that didn't come off. Wanted to try using WTW the way it was designed. This was my first time using this machine downstreaming anything. To answer Rod's questions - yeah I suck - I never cleaned a deck this new before, they seem to come out much nicer when they have been neglected for like 5 years. The boards closest to the house never see sunlight, and I always wipe out drops - I grew up on curing type deck stains, all the railings were done first and tarped below them. Under the left side of the grill - wood looked totally new - and even after pressure washing the rest of the deck didn't look like it, it got the same amout of stain. I think I am going to go the route of stripper on a 1 - yr. old deck next time - I think that would have done the trick better - ripped the new parts off and made everything even. Again this deck got washed on two seperate dates, the second time it dwelled for like 20+ minutes, rinsed, oxalic bath, didn't get up all the furries - never a problem in the past - again I suck.

Yeah - I know what you are talking about now - the grill has sat there for a year, since it was built. And when I rolled the grill out of the way - the wood looked brand new under the grill. Even after cleaning - the remainder of the deck never looked the same as the grille area. The stain even looks glossy on that area as well - didn't even dive into the wood.

I am not sure why it looks uneven, although I was backbrushing a second coat for half the deck - and got tired of doing that. But I can't see the uneveness in person. Well there is one thing that may contribute. I had fuzzies on the deck - and that affected the hue. But this brings up an important question - I started staining this deck an hour after I stopped pressure washing. How does one get rid of fuzzies on a damp deck? If you can't what good is staining a wet deck? Anyways - I loved working with the product.

But Ken - don't you think you do higher quality work than your workers? Don't you have some customers willing to pay for a premium ultra deluxe service? I just worry about volume work - other contractors in the painting trades who focus on volume work - never do work with any lasting value - pretty much are peeling badly at yrs. 2 & 3. I focus on doing residential repaints that will look great for at least 5 to 6 years - and build a customer base who want higher quality work. But no crew I have seen that does volume can do this kind of quality. I am all for making money - heck, I was thinking how nice it would be to do 6 lawns a day for $50 a pop for a $300 payday. I will be getting the trailer so who knows maybe sitting on lawnmowers may be a way of living - painting is rough work.