plainpainter

Is it my imagination or Trex doesn't age very well? Everyone wants a miracle substitute for wood. -Dan

Shane - I do prefer to use bleach. As I still can't figure out what is so bad about it. Especially when people who bad mouth bleach are strong proponents of using sodium hydroxide - Sodium hydroxide is such strong powerful and very dangerous stuff, I'd think bleach is much tamer by comparison. But I tried the sodium percarb, because I am always experimenting. Ken - I don't understand why you think I am posting in a condescending tone. I think if anyone is condescending it is the people that bad mouth bleach. Case in point - when everyone talks about how bad the 'fuzzies' are with bleach - well I get those same fuzzies using sodium hydroxide, sodium percarbonate, oxalic acid. Everything I have used makes fuzzies. The only time I have noticed that bleach had a detrimental effect on the stain - was one instance where I didn't rinse very well where the deck abutted the house - apparently my bleach solution got caught up in the shakes, and came back down - and that is where I got stain failure. But I am sure the same would be true with any chemical that I didn't rinse out very well. And I do read the posts here and take home some very valuable advice, and some things I disagree with. And I will take time to fill my signature tonight Barry - I have several tips, one is very gentle -basically for car cleaning, one is about 45 degree spray and the other is like a 5 degree spray - I usually go with the 45 degree tip. I have a 2900psi 2.5 gallon/minute machine. And I hold the tip about a foot away from the wood when I pressure wash decks - what exactly the pressure is, I haven't sat down to do the math - but I don't damage decks. Typically I use a 5-gallon container, dump a cup of TSP, one gallon of 6% bleach, fill the rest with water from the hose. Then I scrub the deck with that solution - and all I need the pressure washer for is to rapidly rinse the deck. Gets up all the dead wood grain, fungus, and mildew - I basically only need the pressure from a garden hose - but use a pressure washer to rinse faster. I am using the pressure from my pressure washer to lift old deck stains - as it is very hard to remove even with 10oz per gallon of lye. That's because the stain I use is Tung oil based and forms a rock hard surface somewhat like spar varnish - and just doesn't want to come off. -Dan

Ok, say it's a lack of knowledge. I mean that was the reason I performed this test - was to see what would work and what wouldn't. I made a mixture of 8 ounces of sodium percarbonate plus 4 ounces of a Sodium Metasilicate type of TSP to one gallon of water. Isn't this pretty much in the ballpark of what I have been reading as to what people use on weathered wood that has no sealer? This mixture was applied by a garden sprayer - so that was the strength that was applied to the cedar picket fence. The combination of this chemical in addition to scrubbing - made for a perfectly clean fence with just the use of a garden hose to rinse. Without scrubbing - nothing came off. Another section - I used no chemicals, but used a pressure washer at about 3-4 inches away to get the same results as scrubbing with chemicals and hose rinse. Seems to me had I applied these chemicals, didn't scrub, and then pressure washed - I could have convinced myself that the chemicals did all the work. -plainpainter

I know it's artillery fungus, for some reason I write down virus. As for scrubbing - I have performed a bunch of tests with picket fences. I made a mixture of TSP and sodium percarbonate - and applied it to a really bad fence with lots of lichen and stuff. I think the strength was about 8 ounces of S.P. and 4 ounces of TSP per gallon. I scrubbed half of the fence, and then reapplied again with a garden sprayer to the whole fench, and again scrubbed the same area. After all was said and done - an hour went by, and then I rinsed the fence with a garden hose, I just wanted to see what I could do with chemicals in the absence of pressure. When I started to wash off the area I previously scrubbed - all the nasty stuff just came off effortlessly, no need for pressure washing. And what was revealed was this beautiful cedar wood - the part that I had also applied chemicals to, but didn't brush, nothing came off - it looked the same as before. So what can you conclude from this? I think the above strength of chemicals is pretty spot on. I didn't use bleach, and was able to kill all fungus, lichen, moss, get rid of all dead wood fibers with just scrubbing and sodium percarbonate. If the chemicals are suppose to do all the work - how come the other areas of fence I didn't scrub, nothing came off? -plainpainter

I got a moisture meter last year to test wood - and it just confirmed what I already knew. When the wood seems dry - it probably is. -plainpainter

Are you saying, Ken, nobody scrubs anymore? LOL - when you go to a car wash, and use the pressure washer - how come it doesn't get off all the grime? Until you agitate the detergents with a scrubber of some sorts and then rinse, then and only then does that thin coating of grime come free from the car finish. Why would it be different with decks or siding? Maybe that is the reason why I am so succesful in removing that artillery virus from every house I pressure wash - no matter if it's been there for a month, a year, or whatever. After applying the chemicals - I scrub every square inch, and to me that's a better job! -plainpainter P.S. I did say it was his choice what chemicals he chose. And perhaps your methods are less antiquated - but to most people that don't have unlimited funds, but do have a pressure washer {cold-water}- a 5 gallon bucket and a deck scrubber is a good cheap method to get going.

Huh?!? People are asking you to do more work, and you want to leave money on the table? I am a painter by trade - and I'll pressure wash anything if people ask me to. Start lo-tech, Bleach and TSP - I make tons of money cleaning decks with those chemicals. Some people here prefer more "appropriate" cleaners - I am sure you have seen those threads. But whatever - cleaning decks ain't no big deal - whatever chem you choose. Just pre-wet the deck, mix your chemical in a 5 gallon bucket, with a deck scrubber in hand - dunk, and then apply chemicals and scrub, do an area the time it takes you 20 minutes to apply and scrub with. Then with a pressure washer - wash off the area you just cleaned - and move on. Once you have done that with the whole deck - come back and rinse everything again, and then again. And voila you have pressure washed a deck. -plainpainter

TSP - Tri-Sodium Phosphate. It will actually fertilize the nearby vegetation. -plainpainter

I read somewhere that it is next to impossible to remove artillery fungus, and only if it has been on siding for less than a month. I don't understand this, I have always been able to rid of this pest. 1 gallon of boiling water + 1/4 cup of TSP + 1 quart of bleach mixed into a garden sprayer - applied to pre-wetted surface, then scrubbed vigorously with deck scrubbing brush, then allowed to sit for 15+ minutes, then rinsed off with my cold water pressure washer. -plainpainter

Do any of you pressure washers scrub the siding after you have applied your chemicals before you pressure wash? -plainpainter

I know this fungus - it definitely isn't spider droppings - I had a house that was resided with factory primed clapboards - and then it sat for 18 months before I came to paint it. And It was all over the siding. as for the boiling water I bring one of those electric water boiler/teapots and plug it in to the outside outlets. The fungus doesn't come off in seconds - but with my bleach/tsp solution and lots of elbow grease - I can get it

The volatiles in oil based products is the mineral spirits - and they're long gone after several weeks. As well - the wood in itself is already a fuel for fire. -plainpainter

Ken, my name is Dan. Sorry didn't realize this was a homeowner. But to chime in, I think this homeowner should also invest in a long painters' pole and deck scrubbing brush head. I believe scrubbing chemicals into the siding increases the effectiveness of the chemicals - and the pole allows you to scrub most parts from the ground. I also think one can use weaker dilutions of chemicals if you scrub. As for the stain - I have used lots of oil solid stain on cedar shake homes, mine included. Solid stain doesn't usually peel, it can sometimes - but it's so minor, and it touches up easily. And unless you are going with a light color - it is self-priming. -plainpainter

Not to mention - TSP gives old paint a "profile" for new paint to adhere well to. Is this EFc-38 a sodium percarb solution? Yeah it's great for killing mildew and getting rid of damaged wood fibers. But in the past - if I did use sodium percarb, I mixed in TSP with it as well. 1/2 cup of oxiclean, 1/4 cup TSP to a gallon of hot water. It's more expensive, and I never noticed any vegetation damage with bleach, and bleach kills the mildew faster. So why not just use bleach? -plainpainter

toxic gas, kills vegetation, etch glass?!?! Ken, I've used this formula for years - I have never killed vegetation, never etched glass, and maybe it gives off a gas - never noticed anything, certainly nothing worse than flatulence. And not to mention, read any tech sheet on sites like pratt&lambert, Muralo, California paints - and they all tell you to make similar recipes for cleaning mildew off the side of a home, or just on the side of the TSP pail - it gives formulas as well. TSP and bleach has been a great product for cleaning homes. I don't know what EFC-38 is, probably works too - but it's something I can't buy at a hardware store. I can buy bleach and TSP - and follow the directions on the side of the TSP can, and get perfect results. -plainpainter

What I would do is mix up a solution of 1/4 cup TSP to a gallon of water, add a quart of household bleach. Then pre-wet the area of the house you are going to clean, with a garden sprayer-pump on the solution - then scrub the siding with a deck brush, after 20 or so minutes, pressure wash off. I don't know what EFC-38 is, you probably can subsitute it for the recipe above I gave. Once dry - prime the house. I am a painter, this is how I prep. I don't caulk homes with shakes and oil solid stains for some reason. If I was going to paint I would - I feel the shakes can breathe so well - there is no need to caulk in case water gets behind the shakes. If you paint - well it doesn't breathe well, so you are better off trying to prevent all water ingres with caulking. As to the oil vs. latex debate - that's rooted in the EPA with all their VOC laws. And although I think it's a lot of bunk - some people high in the EPA like to pad resumes with 'I was forefront in the reduction of VOC's with Industrial coatings blah blah blah.......' So the powers that be are going to get rid of oil. -plainpainter

Steve - if there is minor peeling - why not just clean up the deck with TSP and some bleach product, and then reseal? The wood oxidation will be gone in the peeled sections - so it you won't notice a difference when it is resealed. It's not much peeling either, I don't know what kind of customers you have - but if I had to sell them on stripping their decks every other year - yikes they'd probably sue me or something. I'd rather just sand down the bare spots a little bit after it dried - rather than telling them, they have to pay 2g's every other year to have their deck stripped, neutralized, and resealed. I was thinking maybe after 3 coatings - sell them on a strip job. As a sidenote - I was confronted by this guy that wanted his deck he treated with that two component system by Cetol - Cetol Deck and Deck Base I believe - to be revived, since there was lots of peeling. He said he went with that product, because it's tough as nails - and didn't want to stain every year, he wanted to wait like 5 years. Well I talked to a Cetol rep - and they basically told me, as tough as it is - proper care is to apply a new coat every year - and that if you wait for failure in the coating - then you missed the point. -plainpainter

Okay, here is a slightly different question - how do you charge for stripping? Do you give 'em a set price, whether it takes one application or three? Or do you tell 'em in advance it costs so and so per application? I really don't like the attitude customers take - 'you're a professional you should have known how much work it would have been' If I was so smart about the future - I'd be working on wall street right now. -plainpainter

A garden hose? I have a craftsman 2.5/gpm 2900 PSI pressure washer - and the stuff doesn't want to come off even when the nozzle is several inches away. I hate giving these companies my money - When I clean house, I have always used 2 gallons of water, 1/2 cup tsp, 1/2 gallon of bleech - sprayed on with a garden sprayer, then scrubbed and then power washed. And that has always done a great job - and far cheaper than purchasing some companies' $20/gallon solution. So why not figure a good formula for stripping - the active ingredient is lye, right? I found a link talking about adding Tergitol to lye to make a great stripper. Why no just experiment and make our stripper for a fraction of the cost?

I am putting 6oz of lye per gallon along with 1/4 cup of sodium-metasilicate TSP - and it ain't getting the stuff off that well. It's my deck I am trying to learn how to strip on - it's got multiple years of buildup of thompsons and cuprinol - before I had a friend clean it up and put a coat of California's stain on it - then I cleaned it 2 years ago and put a coat of Muralo's Lumberjacket - which is Tung oil based. And I have cleaned the decks twice with 4 oz of lye plus 1/4 cup of sodium Metasilicate type TSP per gallon - and then a 3rd time with 6oz of lye plus S.M. TSP - and still needs more stripping! Note I wetted the decks and then scrubbed this stuff on with a deck scrubber - and continuously went over and kept scrubbing and adding more stuff and probably has at least 20 minute dwell time. Is a surfactant is what is making the difference? If I go online and order a non-ionic surfactant and add to the mix - will it make a drastic improvement? And isn't the TSP acting sort of a surfactant anyways? -plainpainter P.S. I am using Red-Devil 100% lye, and Lunmarks' TSP that has sodium-metasilicate in it.

Hi - I am a painter by trade, that has gotten into pressure washing - first just because it's great prep to a house prior to scraping, then second being asked to revitalize decks. In my area the extent of most painters' arsenal is jomax - coming to this site I didn't realize that you guys have gone way way way past this. I have never really heard about even stripping a deck, but I guess that's because 19 out of 20 customers in new england - never ever even treated their decks with anything, just dirty mildewy grey/black wood. So my question is - how do you decide whether to do a maintenance cleaning versus a total strip? I had a deck I did 2 years ago, where it was 4-5 yrs. old, never treated, and all grey. So I wetted the deck, put a gallon of bleach into a 5 gallon bucket , filled the rest with water - and then scrubbed it onto the deck - pressure washed it off, then rinsed rinsed rinsed - and had a nice honey wood deck again. I put on Muralo's Lumber jacket transparent stain - 2 coats on all the flat parts. So now it's 2 years later, deck is in Full Southern sun - never any shade and is up against a white house. It has some failure on it now - not much, but peeling in some places. Would you just go ahead and do a maintenance cleaning, and restain? This is a 10' x 45' deck, with 2 stairways - approx 6' off the ground - and a total pain to do. I am charging them $900 to do a pressure washing and staining - and I feel that's a great deal - since I have done this deck before and know what it takes to do it. But I know, rich as they are with their homes on Hawaii, Martha's vineyard, Maine - that they think it's too expensive - and wouldn't pay me to do a real strip anyways. What would the value be of stripping anyways? Wouldn't you only strip a deck, if it's been really abused - like say, they waited 5 years to treat instead of 2? -plainpainter

I think giving free estimates or not is not a choice you can make. It's a reflection of the market. If there are too many contractors in one area of business - then certain things are done to be more competitive, e.g. free estimates. Think of it as a buyers' market. Obviously we would all like to filter out all the ding-dongs - heck even my own neigbor had me over his house 11 times for estimates on house painting, deck restorations, pressure washing a house in another town that he was custodian for. After a while it occured to me that this guy ain't signing anything - so I walked away from him. Maybe something silly as just charging $5 will be enough to separate good clients from idiots. Certainly, if I was backlogged - I'd ask money for estimates - what do you have to lose? Think of it like testing the market, like when you ask for more money than you normally would to do a job. -plainpainter