fireandrain

Gooooooooooooood Times!!!!!!!!!! Just when I get a grip on acrylics (2 in the last 2 weeks), I get this Urethane! I'm game. I added another close up of the floor. This finish was applied last summer and has already started breaking up... The lower deck is pretty well protected, under the top deck..should be even more fun down there!

Hey thanks Rafal, I appreciate that information.

kev.. come to think of it, Rick said he had 357 spindles... 357x4 sides.. lets see, that would be belt sanding nearly 1500 sides of old spindles... Keeping those spindles steady whilst sanding..no thanks, cant really see the time or customer savings...at least in one of my ball games. Frankly, if I came across a deck that size with a solid on that many spindles, even if it WAS redwood, I would advocate Rick's approach... Makes slot of sense to me...

Depends on the wood, PT, cheaper to take Ricks route I think. With the redwood decks we see, probably not, redwood too pricey for swapping I think. Rick mentioned something about this to me. Nice job Rick, man, 29 Gal's!

Well Done, Rick! I can just see Peirce up there tapping the keg!

I started a thread on this last year. Have you found the search button?

WARNING: Big Time Venting Here! The customer that refused to listen, and refused to be satisfied... So I provided a client with a bid late last season for a pretty straight-forward strip,brighten,seal job on a couple of small,ground level redwood decks. No verts, floor boards only. The deck a very faded finish, some sort of semi-trans, perhaps Cabot...Most of the deck,however, was just faded,gray, well trampled floor boards. Homeowner, late 30's professional woman called me over last year for me to have a look at the job. She didn't spend too much time with me out on the deck, I think she had a GC visiting for another unrelated project. As I recall, she spent more time watching her children play in the backyard than paying attention to my commentary on the condition of her deck. She seemed preoccupied with other things, just sort of said she needed it "cleaned up" and re-stained, "nothing fancy" were her words.... So... I write up an itemized quote that lists EXACTLY what procedures we would follow, each followed by a price. (Incidentally, I no longer provide on the spot proposals, work them up in the office while checking my notes on the project and reviewing digital pictures taken day of first mtg. with prospective client.) My price is competitive and I provide her with one of my brochures that describes in plain English each of the steps we proposed taking with her deck. Fast forward to 3 weeks ago. Client leaves me a voice mail indicating that she would like to get me over to do her deck the following week while she and her family are away on vacation. She was polite about, realized that it was short notice and all. I called her back the following day and let her know that we were real busy (It was right around the 4th of July) but that I would make a special trip out to get her taken care of while she was away. I informed her that we had a 10% price increase over last year (which amounted to an extra $75) and that I would like her to email me some current photos of her deck. She sent photos the following day and emailed that, “We just want a natural finish - no real color” I emailed her back informing her of the need to have “some” pigmentation in the finish in order get UV protection. Starting to sound fuzzy? Welcome to my world with this one! She never emailed back, just to say that she would leave the gate unlocked for me while they were on vacation. It was such a short notice project for me and I trusted these clients, so I didn’t rush off a contract or request a deposit. I just emailed her to leave a check for 50% before she left and that we would settle up when she returned. So, I finish the project July 5th. Deck turned out as good as could be expected..Surface of was deck pretty beat up, lots of nail bleed, broken knots,etc, it really needing to be re-surfaced but was not enthusiastic about spending the money for that, and again, at the original meeting with her last year, she really didn’t pay attention to anything I was saying… She said she wanted to clean up and re seal the deck. Preserve it. Throughout the project I emailed the client, giving detailed descriptions of what we were doing,etc… No responses from her. One that said to call her on her cell. I did. No call back. Basically the lady just kinda blew me off while she was away on vacation. So she returns from vacation. No calls. No emails. I call her, get her cell voice mail, multiple times. I leave messages, politely requesting payment for services rendered. Nothing. I email her numerous times. Nothing. I ask to leave check in envelop on front porch, that I would swing by yesterday to pick up. Let her know that if she has any questions or concerns, to please call me.I drive out there to pick up check yesterday. No check left for me. No calls. Nothing. Mind you, these are affluent professional clients in a neighborhood with a median home price of $1.2 million. I finally get an email this morning from her requesting that I stop by between 3-6 to “discuss the deck and payment”. It’s my day off, but I want this thing resolved ASAP. I phone her and email her, let her know that I’ll be by @ 3PM. I drive an hour round trip to her house half wondering if she would even be there to meet me. She lets me in, we walk out to the deck and she unloads on me about how disappointed she is with how her deck turned out. Didn’t like the stain. RS-Med Red. Thought it looked too red, too orange… (ya’ mean like REDWOOD?) She said that she was hoping it would be “more brown”…. Oh, like her original email which indicated she wanted a………………”clear/natural” finish. She appeared to listen to all of the information that I was supplying her with (same stuff I told her last year), but keeps returning to blanket statements about how she sort of assumed we would be sanding her entire deck down and that it would look, in her words, “like a new deck”. I felt completely and utterly cornered. I NEVER get into this sort of situation. So, Im thinking, 1in300, not bad,right? Didn’t seem to make me feel any better. I don’t like to leave a new client unhappy, EVER! If I suspect that Im dealing with an reasonable type of homeowner, I just don’t do business with them. I’m pretty good about that. Like I said, this is a first for me. I was almost inclined to offer to re-stain the deck free of charge, but this woman’s attitude was so poor, so accusatory, and mis-guided that I decided while we were talking that I would not budge. I gave her a quote, specified IN DETAIL which treatments her deck would be getting and the associated costs. I bent over backwards to get her on my calendar during the time frame that she requested, sent half a dozen elaborately detailed emails updating her while she was away, and was forward about the type/color of stain we would be using (documented in emails). I guess she just got back from vacation, didn’t like how the deck looked and just decided she would wait to discuss/pay until she was ready…2 weeks later. And, this woman is a successful local attorney. Jeez, longest thread in history of TGS! Long story short, I told her that I would order some samples from ReadySeal and re-coat her deck with a darker color at a discounted price. I also encouraged her to be available to sign off on color before I did the whole deck. I also told her that I would be happy to put together a price on re-surfacing her deck and re-staining and that I would take into consideration the “disappointment” factor when pricing this work. She wasn’t happy. I could say ANYTHING to change her mind, she just felt ripped off and mislead. She cut me check and escorted me out of her house rather disrespectfully. Really made me feel like ****. Did I do the right thing? Can anyone share a similar story and how they resolved it? Obviously there was a major communication,right? To be fair, I really feel like she had a very selective attention span and then threw it all back on me in the end. I hope her check clears

I had a client of mine ask me today why, if a stain soaked rag could ignite in a garage, why won't the new stain on her house exterior (cedar shake) ignite as well? She came home on a super hot day, smelled all of that RS and felt like she had to pose the question... Nice lady, very curious type. I've ben asked this once before and I would love to have a better understanding of the correct answer so I can be better prepared when it's posed to me.

I looked at a 3 year old IPE deck and fence project today. Stained with "clear" Penofin in 2007. Deck boards are faded and blotchy and the horizontal fence boards failing as well (see pictures). Clients are pretty serious about making sure that whatever I seal their IPE with, will still be looking good after one year. I told them to expect a maintenance every 2 years on this deck. They claimed that the contractor that built the deck used a Clear Penofin finish. I have not worked with IPE before, does that info ring true based on my pictures? I’m going to need to strip this old Penofin off (duh…) and am concerned about how this IPE will take my stripping. I’m figuring that I will need to build in de-furring/sanding on this project. These folks really want their deck to look spectacular and be assured that it will STILL be looking great in a years time. Any suggestions on what sealer will satisfy these homeowners with respect to allowing the IPE to express it’s true beauty? I’ve been using RS exclusively, not sure if this will suffice on IPE. Appreciate any advice on this one as I have NEVER worked with IPE and am concerned about how it will behave.

Good Times! I really dug a hole with myself on this one.

They are some sort of modern sculpture chairs. You should see the garage door on this house! Stainless steel! Insane.

They sure did Rick! This house is featured in some high end home magazines as well. I would estimate the property around $3-4 million. That's what pro football will buy you. Cant' mention any names, but lets just say that the man of the house is the LAST guy on earth I would want to dissappoint...

Thanks Rick. I remember you saying that you had an IPE yourself. Man, I really wish I had done more research before my initial consultation with IPE owners! These folks seem plenty prepared to pay for tip top service, now I'll just have to figure out how to "re-package" my proposal to them. I have not sent a proposal to them yet, but I talked a big game with respect to longevity (1 year minimum) on staining. Big time rookie mistake. Like I said above, perhaps I can tell them that I've been re-thinking their IPE situation and am concerned about promising that the wood will stay looking its best a year down the line. Rather, propose a strip/brighten/de-furr this time around,seal with RS, and build in a maintenance guarantee through next year. So, when they call next year to complain that their deck and fence are fading, they know that that I will re-visit their IPE w/ a free-of-charge clean/re-seal. Does this make sense? I hate doing things all fishy and fuzzy like this, not how I like to do business, but I made a pretty good impression on these homeowners when we met, and I can't really back-out on a providing them with a proposal...at least.

Thanks Charles. I guess I really blew it in my initital mtg. w/ these folks! Now I'll just have to figure out how to put build my proposal AFTER assuring (in our initial discussion) that, with the right seal, the deck should look good after a year. Whooops! Hmmmm. Maybe I should build into the quote a 1 year guarantee, fully expecting that I will need to do a "free" maintenace cleaning/re-seal a year from now... Not the way I like to do business, but after telling them that they will be OK in a year, not sure what my other options are... Its going to look a bit fuzzy to these folks after my initial consulatation... Guess I have nothing to lose. Just build into the price next years maintenance.

Thanks for the support, Mike. I Appreciate it.

Thats interesting stuff MudDuck. I deposited the check yesterday in my ATM, probably should have gone to her bank directly. Anyways, pretty compelling information regarding the BAR. Hope I don't have to go that far, but good to know! Thanks.

Thats so true,Doug. I did my best to educate this homeowner last year when we first met. She was preoccupied with other things at the time, didn't really pay much attention. Now, a year later, after project is completed as quoted, she claims that she wish she had known what her options were, that she was " just sort of hoping that she would come home from vacation and see a new deck".... What can I say.

Sage advice,Rod. I will be modifying my contracts TODAY and will be including this cautionary statement. Thanks!

Hey thanks Rick, I appreciate your kind words of advice. Your right, the fact that it was booking of a bid left 9 months ago with client, and then called in to book project while they were away,,,just a messy situation waiting to happen. Having said tha, I have been in similar situations...just never turned out this way. Thanks for your support, really makes me feel a whole lot better...

Well said, Celeste. Obviously someone felt like he was being personally attacked. I think its reasonable to conduct intelligent, level-headed dialogue about regional circumstances that affect pricing. I, for one, have benefited greatly from past TGS discussions on the topic. Yes, "times are tough" with respect to the American economy as a whole. As...a whole. The fact is times are not equally tough in all markets. For instance, in my market, the only cut-backs my clients are making is deciding to vacation in Europe this year instead of trekking in Africa. These clients are working in industries that have been getting rich in these lean times. I have two clients who are pharmaceutical CFO'S, another dozen that are corporate lawyers, and a new one just yesterday, that is a professional football player. I guess what Im getting at is what many folks have said in the past. Where your positioned in the market has EVERYTHING to do with pricing. If I offered to lower my price to one of my clients who was on the fence about a prospective project, I'm certain that I would never hear from him again. Certain of it. Thats just my market. Okay, perhaps Charlie was pushing it a bit to call such practices "sleazy", but I think he was trying to make a point. A valuable one, in my opinion. Im certain that the clients in my market would interpret such a pricing technique as pretty unprofessional and indicative that I may have been fishing for "the most I could get" when I originally quoted their project. In the infamous and soon to be patented words of Rod, "just my .02."

Im laughing because just last week I was bragging that I havent seen acyrilic out here in years. I knew it! SHould have knocked on wood... Was called out to a deck yesterday, looks like an acrylic. The HO said he had been having a huy come out EVERY year to "maintain', and re-coat this deck... Huh? Apparantly, he never stripped between apps of this finish. The deck is unique in that the floorboards are built from 1x2 redwood. Looks more like an interior hardwood floor froma distance. Anyways, Im needing to build a quote for this HO, and am nervous about the labor thats going to be involved in stripping this nasy stuff! Hopefully these pics will help with a dignosis... That'll teach me never to say never!

Greg, No finished pics yet. MOre stripping on front decks next week still. De-furred the other two decks yesterday, went well, looks SWEET! I cant wait to stain!

I found out that the existing failed finish on that so-called acrylic strip job ( see thread if your feeling lucky) was "TimberTek UV", an 'eco-friendly' wood finish. I was curious about this funky arse finish so I contacted there customer support up in Portland,Oregon to inquire more. I have a guy in my market that is going around coating decks with this stuff and returning every year for "maintenance visits" that are NOT cheap according to these clients. I've been called in to strip and refinish two of this guys decks in the past week. Like I said, it is an 'eco-friendly' stain that is BIO-BASED WATERBOURNE. So...thats non an acrylic? Looks like it! Here is the information that Timbertek emailed me... Im not throwing this out there to incite another thread on a new product, not really too excited about the stuff myself. Anyone with experience stripping or applying this stuff? Sure looks like an acrylic finish to me, but I guess it isnt because its waterbourne? Little confused. Want to know more about how this stuff behaves as ive been called out to 3 of these the past 2 weeks! Ok, heres the info on this stuff from an email from TimberTek... Hello Matt, Timber Pro is a bio based oil (plant derived) yet waterborne. It is pretty tough, though we do suggest people clean and treat their decks yearly or every other year. We recommend two coats, but Timber Pro needs to be applied to wood that is not baking in the sun or warm to the touch. That is the only stickler with our finish, more temperature sensitive then the typical flammable oil based stains. However, it is less sensitive to moisture content in the wood, so if the wood has a higher moisture content (23% or less) than our product can be applied. Most flammable oil based stains require 18% moisture or less as you know. We also make a Log & Siding Formula for log homes and homes with cedar or redwood siding. It is super popular and we sell product to Lindal Cedar Homes, and most of the top log and timber frame companies in the Pacific NW, they don't really care that it is eco-friendly, they just like it because its durable and they can clean up with water. Okay, now you are more educated than you need to be......... We will have a new website soon, current one is outdated but you can go to www.TimberProCoatings.com to learn more if need be.

Thought I'd post up this project. Redwood deck had multiple coats of Cabot semi-trans, top-coated without stripping by homeowner. Homeowners "gave up" 8 years back, hadn't touched the deck. Here are some before pictures from yesterday...

I've read so many different opinions on whether its easier, more efficient, better results,etc.. to apply with pole mounted stain pads OR to roll on with conventional paint rollers. When practical, seems like its always easier to spray. However, in certain situations, its just not practical to go through all the hassle of masking off all of the surrounding surfaces with tarps, plastic,etc... gotta roll the deck boards or use stain pads. Opinions on using rollers vs. stain pads like the shurline or wider pad applicators. What da' think?