Paul B.

RHenry, Thanks for the kind words! RickG, You're on the money! Dale, I can't tell what part of the fence you're on. BeYoungSr, Are you sure Someone didn't send you? - What's a Deckster? Is that the same device sold by SunBrite for applying deck stains? Not familiar with it enough to know if it has Shur-flo on it or to know if Beth carries it or not. - The only products that I'm familiar with and will gladly promote is HD-80 and Citralic, as they are both excellent products (if not the best, at least one of the top 3) and which products I presently use. Just to set the record straight: - I try to be fair and pass on information that may be helpful to others, but most importantly, things I have first hand experience with. - While Moderator/Forum Leader, I was not compensated in any fashion (including salary, commission or product/merchandise discount) for any of my activities on this BB. Since I was not a salesperson, I did not feel obligated to promote or provide information on products that I'm not familiar with. This may not have always been fair to Beth and Rod, but I never made any promises other than doing the best job I could and to provide unbiased information to anyone who asked (regardless if I offended that person or not). After all, I feel that when a Forum Leader promotes a product that they have no experience with, it tends to delute that person's credability. Besides, Beth carries great products that speak for themselves and has many loyal customers that have used them who will not hesitate to promote those products. Of course, she is a very talented sales persons that believes in the products she promotes. - I know this BB tries very hard to fight the myth that everyone here pushes Beth & Rod's products and therefore is second class to BB's that do not also sell products. Let me tell you, this is a high class joint and every effort is made to provide good, reliable information available to all who read and ask questions. - This is not a board that should be compared to another, where selling a product takes presedence over providing accurate information; where if their product is not mentioned, it's not the right answer; where folks are mis-lead so their products could be sold (I hope your eyes are open to the differences). - I hope you're able to tell when you are on this board that this board has very high values and maintains contractor learning and growth above all else! (Regardless of what products are available and sold by the owners.) - Last, but not least - as of this morning I am no longer a Forum Leader. Best Wishes!

Joe, Can you clarify something for me? When you ad E-B to Cabot stain, you add it to a water based stain? Do you add E-B to the water based stain in lieu of applying Cabot's Problem Solver Oil based primer? Thanks!

JC, You know what they say - Location, location, location. However in the context of this discussion, location may not be an advantage. You hit it on the head when you talk about the cost of doing business being different from region to region. While you pay $2K a year for your policy in NJ, I probably only pay about half that in southern Ohio. While fuel costs are at $1.60 in NJ, my price is more in line with $1.45. (Gas prices are strange because they can vary as much as $0.30-$0.40 on the same day from station to station even in my city, but that's another subject). Workers Comp. can vary from 7% in one state to 19% in another state for the same trade. Same can be said for commercial vehicle insurance - while you may pay $3K a year on your truck in NJ (considering all records to be equal), my cost is half of that. Same differences can exist for vehicle license tags as well as chemical shipping costs, CPA fees, attorney fees, along with many other business expenses and OH costs. The flip side of operating costs is how much your market will bear for the same service in different regions. While cost of living is higher and operating costs are higher, chances are you may be able to charge more for your services. There are also what I call as market limiters. I can drive a hundred miles south of where I do business and the market will only allow 60%-70% of what I can charge while the cost of business is almost identical. That is why as a business, it's critical that you know your operating costs and your break even point, along with knowing your market area, competition and have a good handle on your market limitations.

Try Prosoco's "Heavy Duty Paint Stripper" - it's made for stripping multi layers of paint off masonry surfaces. It is a jell, so it will hang on vertical surfaces. It stays damp for up to 24 hrs. If the surface will be repainted, you need to make sure the surface is neutralized after stripping. Need to be in 6-8 pH range for paint to adhere properly. You can find directions on the web site under Restoration - Paint & Coating Removal - Product Data Sheet (MSDS is also available on site). www.Prosoco.com Call them to find a local rep in your area (800) 255-4255

You can purchase an assembled system from Water Cannon for $189. (800) 333-9274 or (800) 964-9274 or (800) 351-7283 www.1800333wash.com They are in Orlando, Fla. The Sprayer assembly consists of: - Hand Cart - 20 gallon white transluscent water tank - 1 GPM @ 60 PSI 12 Volt Shur-Flo pump (rated for acid use) - 1 on/off switch - 1 lance with trigger - 29ft long 3/8" ID clear hose - It has a place to mount battery - Battery box is $15 extra - You supply the battery If you want to build your own: - Hand Cart (Home Depot / Lowe's / etc.) - Used 15 gallon drum from dry-cleaner or car wash - 1 to 1.8 GPM pump (60-100 PSI) with Viton Valves may want 115 Volt instead of 12 Volt - Trigger Jet spray gun (similar to one that comes with unit) EnviroSpec #2214-112 30" lance with Viton gun, poly lance and adjustable nozzle $15. (they also carry fan type nozzles and stainless lance) - EnviroSpec or Water Cannon both carry Shur-Flo pumps, 3/8" ID clear (reinforced) hose. - Need (4) 1/4"MPT x 3/8" barb fittings (plastic or brass) - (1) 12 volt or 115 volt on/off switch (mounting bracket and wire) - (1) Deep charge battery (if using 12 volt) - (1) Battery box - (1) plastic filter hose inside drum (water tank) to filter chemical - (50 ft) 3/8" ID clear reinforced hose - (or length as req'd). EnviroSpec is (800) 346-4876 or www.envirospec.com Attached is a photo of a unit as can be purchased from Water Cannon (the bracketry and tubes to hold lance were added by customer).

Jon, We are no longer in the 60's or 70's (as much as we wish) where samples were always considered FREE. In todays marketing schemes, not all samples are created equal: While my local Prosoco distributor provides me with FREE product samples (in most cases in gallon containers), Cabot sells their small cans of stain samples for $5 each. Some other vendors charge S&H for samples which are applied toward the purchase of products. I can't say never, but I seldom buy product samples since I consider selling samples another way for manufacturers to make money. Image, there once was a company that wanted to charge me for brochures that I can hand out to my customers so I can sell their product. For some reason I will never remember the name of that company.

Welcome to the board Ray! We all know that there are very few things that are maintenance-free or even low-maintenance. Composits will stain from oils, etc.; mold, mildew and algea will grow on composits. It's a catch-22 situation at best - when you look at the manufacturer's, as they will talk about positive aspects (obviously, as they are trying to sell a product). The same applies to contractors that build decks - they accentuate the positives. There are a few sites that talk about cleaning, maintenance, stain removal and cost related issues. It's not much, but I hope it helps at least a small amount. www.correctdeck.com/faqs/faq_cleaning.htm www.trex.com/universal/techn...tech_mildew.asp http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/2001/04/18/fp13s1-csm.shtml www.detnews.com/2001/decorating/0107/12/e16-241940.htm

My price always includes cleaning the exterior of gutters and down-spouts. I spell it out up front. If price becomes an issue (and only then), I offer to not clean gutter and reduce price, but I also demo a small section so they can see what differences they will see. Mastering gutter exterior cleaning can give you the edge over your competition. Cleaning is more obvious on light colored gutters so you will save some time on dark colored ones. Upsell anything else you observe that may be in need of cleaning (window cleaning, concrete cleaning & sealing, roof cleaning, deck cleaning & sealing, play sets cleaning & sealing, pool apron cleaning & sealing, etc.). Successful up-selling reduces your marketing costs and expenses (drive time, estimating time, etc.). Figure out your normal cost of concrete cleaning (including marketing, estimating and other costs) so when you up-sell, you can pass-on some PART of the (marketing/estimating) savings to the customer while keeping the other part for yourself. This should create a win-win scanerio.

A little while back, some of us had a conversation about this product and we didn't know anyone that had any experience with it. However, we noted that at $70 per gallon, plus $16 additive per gallon for the two available semi-transparent colors makes the product rather expensive. 5 gallons with tint additive would run you $380 plus S&H. Due to it's 100% solids content, they do claim a high coverage rate ranging 250-400 sq ft per gallon. We haven't found anyone willing to spend $100 for a trial application and a 2-3 year evaluation period. In comparison (maybe not fair), I think Behr also offers up to 7 year warranty on one of their deck stains (5 years horizontal; 7 years on vertical surfaces).

Very good examples and I agree with your opinion 100%: "Make sure to NOT talk down about your rivals. This is negative and not something you want to do." Well, there may be one exception to this rule, and that is when I know the competitor to be a "butcher" in the trade, in which case I do not hesitate to warn of negatives. But that only happens once in a great while.

You are correct - Without knowing what product is on there, the chances are very good that applying new over existing will fail prematurely. As Beth said, test to see what product will remove it. The test should also give you an idea how time consuming the job will be in addition to knowing what your stripper material cost will be in calculating your final estimate. There are ways to test solid paints to see if its an oil based or water based stain. Testing is existing stain latex or oil: One way to find out if existing sealer is oil or water-based is to make a "Test Kit". Mix a strong solution of caustic stripper (such as HD-80) and put it in a spray bottle. Mix a strong solution of brightener and put it in a second spray bottle. Put both bottles in a bucket, along with a stiff scrub brush. Label the spray bottles for safety purposes. When you are doing your estimate, spray caustic stripper on a spot of the deck where the sun doesn't reach (this will be the hardest spot to get the old sealer off). Let the stripper dwell for about five minutes, and then scrub a little with the brush. Follow up with the brightener to neutralize the caustic stripper. Then rinse the area well with plain water. (This will eliminate leaving a dangerous puddle that the customers' pet might step in or lick.) If the old sealer melted (so you could scrape off residue with your thumb nail) then the sealer was oil-based and strippable with the product you brought with you. If it did not, then the sealer was likely a water-based product.

Great subject Alan! I'd like to add a few things, if you don't mind. How to Handle & Overcome Price Objections: Listen carefully Learn to accept price objections for what they are… opportunities in disguise. They are a sign of an interested customer, and with practice and skill, you will be able to overcome them (without cutting your prices!) So don't interrupt or try to handle the objection immediately. Listen carefully and patiently to what they have to say. Make sure you understand the objection Do this by repeating your understanding of their objection back to them ie "So, if I have understood you correctly, what you are saying is..…" Do not carry on until they have confirmed that your understanding is correct. Acknowledge the customer's point of view "I can understand why you might say that. In fact, one or two other clients started by saying much the same thing to me in the past...." Answer the objection Continue from step 3 by saying something like: "…. but what they found - and I'm sure you'll find the same thing - was that...." If they are objecting to the price, complete this sentence by using one or more of the approaches set out in the "Price objection handling strategies". Check that your answer has met their concern "Does that make as much sense to you as it does to me?" Ask for the business "So would you like us to go ahead?" If the customer still objects, go back to step 1 and start again. If this still fails, ask more questions to help you establish their needs and the value to them of meeting those needs. Postpone Postpone talking about prices until after you have demonstrated the value. "Before we can discuss prices we both need to be absolutely sure that we are right for you. So, if it's all right with you, we'll come back and discuss the price in detail when we both know what you need." Make the value obvious Paint a graphic picture of what is at stake, quantify the value, and help them to understand how it will make them feel. Break into chunks Break down the price into small chunks, such as cost per use or per week. "And you can enjoy all those benefits for just $3.97 a week" Compare to them Compare your prices to theirs. "Tell me, are you always the cheapest supplier in your market? Well, neither are we. Like you, we charge a fair price for great products and services. And that's why I'm so excited about working with you. But if all you want is the cheapest widget on the market, I can introduce you to several cheap firms from whom you'll get exactly what you pay for." Compare to rivals If they tell you that Fred down the road is cheaper, say something like:"I am sure Fred knows what his widgets are worth. Just as we know what ours are worth. And that's why ours aren't the cheapest on the market." Give them a choice "Most customers looking for this level of service are prepared to invest (middle $). A fortunate few can invest between (high $) and (very high $). And then there are some on a budget who can't go above about (low $). May I ask which of those three categories you fit into most comfortably?" Start by mentioning a (middle $) price that is about 20% above the (low $) price you would be happy to receive. Then quote a (high $) to (very high $) range that is about 50% to 100% above your (low $) price. Then tell them the (low $) price - which you secretly know is actually the price you need. This taps into the subconscious belief that Expensive = Good, and that Cheap = Bad. And, as a result, many customers will accept one of the other two (higher $) prices. Focus on the difference Focus on the difference between what they say they are willing to pay, and what you are asking. "You'll get all the extra benefits you were getting so excited about a minute ago for just $4.27 a week more than you're paying at the moment. That's a big return on a very small investment, isn't it?" Change the package Strip out some elements of the package to bring the cost within their budget. Easy to pay Remove the "we haven't got the money" objection by arranging finance or accepting credit cards Reverse the risk Reduce the customer's risk - perhaps with a money back guarantee Trade Trade something valuable for a price cut i.e.: prompt payment, larger order, long term commitment, special deals on their products, sales leads and referrals etc. Walk away If all else fails, be prepared to walk away - or perhaps introduce them to a lower cost supplier who will pay you a commission for the sales lead! In addition many books are available on the subject including: • How to Sell and Manage in Tough Times and Tough Markets” by Tom Reilly • How to Sell at Prices Higher Than Your Competitors: The Complete Book on How to Make Your Prices Stick by Lawrence L. Steinmetz, Roger Dawson, Jim Cathcart • “Customer Satisfaction Is Worthless, Customer Loyalty Is Priceless : How to Make Customers Love You, Keep Them Coming Back and Tell Everyone They Know” by Jeffrey Gitomer • “Value-Added Selling” by Thomas P. Reilly • “Crush Price Objections: Hold the Line on Price Objections!” by Tom Reilly Also, some web sites for related topics: www.retailsales.net/Files/Overcoming%20Objections%20%28including%20Price%29.pdf www.oacinc.com/STC/Articles/priceobj.pdf www.integritytrainingsolutions.com/integrity/pdf/3_Circles_Issue_2.PDF www.mgic.com/pdf/71-42039.pdf www.salesrepswinner-net.com/academy/aobjhand06.html Hope some of this information will be helpful to increase the percentage of your sales closings!

Looks like San Francisco is on the forefront of mold & mildew nuisance remedies also.

Welcome to the board Joe! What Cabot stain were you using?

Solids are defined as anything remaining in the product after curing. Non-Solids are defined as anything that evaporates during the curing process. Higher solid content by itself is not necessarily an indication of a better product. In general, sealers consist of Binders, Fillers, Thickeners and Additives, etc. Generally: Fillers are ALMOST always 100% solids. Thickeners can vary from 10% to 100% solids. Additives can vary from 0-100% solids. Binders can vary from 25% to 70% solids. Many factors determine the quality of sealers and no single characteristic is a determining factor of the performance of the product, but rather the proper balance and quality of the components.

Bleach is your best answer - it will not stain.

Simple Green is very common and is available in the cleaning section of most grocery stores, K-mart, and Home Depot stores.

The ability to make educated choices come from being well informed. The choices of: to use or not use a product or what personnel protection to have when working with the chemicals. It's unfortunate, but some folks just don't care.

Every state has different requirements - it is possible MD enacted a law for air quality inspections. In the last several decades there has been a growing concern for air quality and other home components and intruders in homes which negatively impact humans. Different testing recommendations have been made for mold & mildew testing, as well as testing for VOC's, asbestos, radon, formeldahyde. These tests are not inexpensive. www.envirohome.com I can't imagine an outdoor deck impacting indoor air quality severely enough to fail testing - but what do I know. Spores can move in the air and travel to indoors. A simple bleach and water washdown will kill the mold and mildew on the deck.

The moral of the story is: If the price seems to be too good to be true, it most likely is!

Theoretically you have almost 3HP to spare.

6 GPM and 3500 psi requires a 20HP drive source. (PSI x GPM) divided by 1100 = HP 16HP motor running a 6 GPM pump will technically give you a max. of 2900 psi. In reality, it will be somewhat less when you add moment of inertias and friction for your drive components.

It's all about enforcement. A couple of three other things I didn't hit on in regards to sub-contractors in my earlier post. One is the liability insurance - are you as a contractor covering your subs or do you make them have the insurance. Better check your policies! Second, when these subs are set up legally, are they really going to work for you for the prices you're willing to pay? Third, after you have been audited, you become flagged by the IRS and become a target for frequent future audits.

I think your sentiments are shared by many. The liability portion is a big risk and could wipe out any business. It's the old addage: Insurance is only good when you need it!

JC, No harm done! (at least on my end) Prices do vary greatly on newspaper ads from city to city. I know I live in a conservative city and the cost of living reflects it. "I drive by houses all the time that are BADLY in need of cleaning.. Is it out of line to drop an estimate in the mail box?" I think that's a great approach! I do the same thing and throw in a flyer and a business card. I mail it or place it in the door - as it's only legal to place something in the mailbox if you have your stamp canceled. A watchout for placing things in the front door is that some people use the garage, side or rear door as the entry, not their front door. I advertise all year around to keep the name out there, but the advertising is cut back to yearly ads such as Yellow Pages, Pink Pages and Bird Dog Packages and commercial marketing. Newspaper ads are minimal thru winter. I kick it up one notch at the beginning of March and into full swing the first of April. I send out flyers or post cards starting mid-February, then a second round in March, followed by a third and fourth in April and May. I stop in June and July and start back in August, Sept. and October for flyers and post cards. I run full swing with the paper ad thru October, cut one in November and reduce to one ad in December, Jan. and Feb..