Paul B.

Make sure you understand ALL of THEIR contract so it is a balanced contract for BOTH parties. Your efficiencies can make or break your profits on large deals. For example, being able to have access to more than one house per day, how you route your staff, dependability of your staff, etc. Always look for work processes you can improve on (staff may have some good input from time to time). Some people are also better at doing certain things, recognizing these will provide you with an edge (unlike military thinking - if you are a cook, will make you a medic). I would also look for a clause in the contract that stipulates hourly compensation if you can't start or continue a job due to THEIR scheduling conflicts (they schedule other workers in the same area you are working in). or ...What if power is not available, what if water is not available, what if the doors are locked and you can't get hold of the GC. Well, I'm sure you both have thought about all those things - I was more or less thinking out loud for the benefit of others.

If "Quitters never win, and winners never quit!", then who is the fool that said, "Quit while you're ahead?"

Celeste, I hope you folks put some provisions into that long term contract to protect yourselves, such as the ability to adjust prices or the ability to terminate it with notice ($0.12 could be half of what you could be making in 5 years thru another contract or inflation). You want the contract to be mutually beneficial.

Yep, I like LLC / Ltd. for certain businesses. It does have it's limitations. I was pleasantly surprised to see that a local Ford transmission plant partnered with a German company and formed a LLC rather than Incorporating.

No, as an LLC everything is combined and you pay taxes once. Remember, liability will not cover the substrate or surface you are working on or cleaning. For example, if you damage a deck you are cleaning, the insurance will not cover it. However, if someone slips on a wet sidewalk that you cleaned, the liability ins. will protect you. Make sure you keep all your personal activities separate from business activities such as banking, travel, etc. and be safety conscious - The advantage of the LLC is that your personal property and personal holdings can not be subjected to actions thru your businesses liability. There are of course always exceptions - especially if your actions are careless or flagrant. For liability, $1M is never too much. A good CPA will help you in regards to business and tax basics more than an attorney. Personally, I would only look at an attorney if you have partnership or setting up a contract, etc. If you are considering a sub, make sure you read up on the requirements. Any sub you pay over $600 per year, you have to submit a 1099 on. You also have to make sure you follow the guidelines on supervision as you can't direct them on their detailed activities, only on the outcome of the work. Check out IRS site: www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=115041,00.html www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html You should also have a contract with the sub outlining each job or general and individual specification sheets should be issued before any work is assigned. Your workers comp will not cover subs. Also, make sure your liability insurance covers sub-contractors or require your sub to have: General Liability, Auto Liability Property Damage, Worker’s Comp - (determined on a per state basis). If it's their insurance, make sure that you have proof and check at 6 month intervals to ensure it hasn't expired. All contractor licenses, required by your state, must be current and on file. Your CPA can generally help with this issue also.

I understand this type of cleaning can run as low as $0.12 per sq. ft. (very low end). A couple of locals in my area are in the $0.18 to $0.23 range. As I understand a 2000 sq. ft. home generally takes about 4-5 hours for 2 people. One of my contacts tells me that there is a decent BB for Cleaning Services at the NAPC (National Association of Profassional Cleaners) www.cleaningassociation.com/forum/ Here are a couple of general lists that I found for new construction interior cleaning. As you can see, the lists vary, but the final approval will always come from the "Builder" or "G.C." List "A" - Whole House: Vacuum, clean tile floors, clean all wood floors, clean all light fixtures, vacuum heating/cooling vents to remove dust, wipe down baseboards - Bathrooms: Clean sinks, showers, tubs and toilets, remove labels, clean mirrors, polish surfaces, clean floors - Kitchens: Clean inside cabinets/drawers, wipe down cabinet facings, clean all appliances, clean countertops, clean and polish sinks, clean floors, polish all glass surfaces - Windows: Remove labels, vacuum window tracks, clean inside/outside, clean window frames List "B" - Bathrooms: Vanity lights, mirrors, medicine cabinets, electrical plates, sinks, counter tops, cabinets, drawers, under those drawers, tile, window frames and window tracks, bathtubs, toilets, doors, baseboards, chair railings and exhaust fans. We remove any excess construction caulking and any product stickers. Finally, we polish all stainless steel, sweep and mop floors. - Bedrooms, Hallways and Stairs: Doors, door frames, baseboards, chair railings, window tracks, window frames, remove dust seals from smoke detectors (entire home), vacuum out heater vents, vacuum carpet wall to wall, clean lights, electrical plates and wipe down stair rails. - Kitchens: Lights, inside cabinets, pull all drawers (clean all surfaces including underneath), wipe down all appliances, window tracks and frames, baseboards, chair railings, clean exhaust fans, remove excess construction caulking, vacuum out heat vents and clean floors wall to wall. All Other Rooms: Clean chandeliers, lights, tracks, frames, fireplaces, doors, door frames, baseboards, chair railings, electrical plates, vacuum heat vents, wipe down heating cold air return, vacuum all carpets wall to wall, clean mirrors, clean cabinet tops, sweep and dust mop all hardwood floors with our wood floor cleaner.

Hogman, I understand there are other Loveland's in the US - ours is in southwest Ohio (suburb of Cincinnati / Porkopolis). As a hint, you will generally find more people responding to your post if you keep the question to one or two specific items. Keep posting!

Sodium Hyperchlorate (NaClO3) is different from Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO). There are a couple of ways of producing sodium hypochlorite: - Reacting chlorine with water - Reacting sodium chloride (salt) with water and an electrical current (electrolysis of brine). The most common industrial preparation involves passing Chlorine gas through a Sodium Hydroxide solution, the products are Sodium Hypochlorite, Sodium Chloride and water. This reaction is temperature sensitive and must be done at temperatures below room temperature. At higher temperatures Sodium Hyperchlorate is produced instead. The highest concentration of Sodium Hypochlorite I have seen is 15-18%. At higher concentrations, the hypochlorite decomposes faster, affecting the economics of manufacturing. 6% concentration is more stable than 10% - etc., etc. Average shelf life of 12% concentration is about 3 months under normal storage conditions. Heat, cold, sunlight and improper containers will shorten its useful life. Pool supply houses are the best place to obtain the highest concentration and freshest supply (liquid pool shock) ranging from 10-15%. Some places you can still purchase in 55 gallon containers, but for most folks the transfer from large container to small container is time consuming and less than ideal. Transporting larger quantities of it may also require separate licensing and plaque posting, etc.

Welcome to the board Hogman! Let me address your last question first: Yes, people will persue pressure cleaners to have their homes cleaned, however MOST don't realize how clean the outside of their gutters can be restored to until they've had someone clean it for them once. You could get by with not cleaning the gutters, but doing it may get you an advantage over your competition. Most (if not all) P/W's on this board clean the gutters when washing the house. As for the rest of your question(s), they are broad and require a book to answer. I suggest that you read as much as you can on this board - go back and do searches for anything specific and just read everything on this board. There are other BB's out there that are also very helpful and can give you additional insite to the P/W business. One site (in addition to this one) that has a great deal of info is www.dcs1.com Having said that, let me see if I can address a few topics: The start-up costs for a P/W business can and will vary greatly. If you are starting into this full time, you should start with a business plan, have enough money to pay your living expenses for minimum of 1 year set aside (or a spouse that makes enough to cover it) on top of moneys for equipment, insurance advertising, etc., etc.. Equipment can be put together for as litle as $3,000 but ideally, I would say for a full timer it would run in the $5,000-$10,000 range for start-up. The low end equipment investment amount will generally result in shorter equipment life, and slower cleaning times. A couple of major things to consider regarding equipment: - Should you purchase a hot or cold water pressure washer - Keeping your equipment on a trailer, box-van or how much equipment you'll have and how you will store and transport it. Marketing/advertising costs should be about 5%-7% of your gross billing, but should be higher in the 1st year or 2 to get your name out there. To give you an example, a 1"x2" ad in a local/community paper with 200K circulation may run you $200 per month. This however will not be enough to sustain your business full time. You will need other marketing/advertising methods such as flyers, business cards, networking, pink page advertising, yellow pages advertising, door hangers, post cards, etc., etc. Insurance $300K liability (minimum) $10K equipment will run you around $800-$1000 per year. Most new construction builders require $1mil business liability insurance, 1 mil commercial vehicle insurance and workers comp. for you and your employees. For new construction (brick & masonry cleaning) I refer you to www.prosoco.com Most likely they will have a distributor in your area. They have many chemicals for different applications. You can do a search under "Brick Cleaning" on the internet and find many sites on "How To" instructions. Other things to consider will be: - Business license and permits in your area - Taxes - Office supplies - Spare parts - Safety apparel and equipment - Maintenance - Uniforms - Banking account and fees - Vehicle licensing - Chemical, supply and fuel costs - Legal fees, accounting, taxes - Phone service - Postage I'm sure there are a million things I missed, but I hope I answered at least one of your questions.

Bill, I think 16-17 cents per sq. ft. would be very tight to start into. Good, dependable help and a large contract would be a nice start. At $0.17, you need to be able to clean a 3000 sq. ft. home with 4 people in MINIMUM 5 hours, which would get you a bill-out of $25.5 per hour (not ideal). The ideal clean time would be 4 hours or under which would bump your bill-out to almost $32. Once you get into it full swing, your marketing costs are almost ZERO; your equipment costs are very low; supplies are your 2nd highest expenditures on top of labor.

Ron is right on... Belated welcome to the BB Robert!

It is with tongue in cheek that I posted the $225K price tag. I do agree, that without knowing many details, estimating the cost of a log home is impossible. Many factors go into a home. Log homes in the Central Virginia area are running about $100 to $125 per square foot of heated living space. This number does not include the land. However, these square foot numbers includes a turn-key operation with normal excavation, a short driveway, a well and septic, a foundation, sub-floor, the log package, the labor to erect it, and all the interior finish items of above average quality. At $100 per square foot, a 2600 plus square foot home like the one shown in the photo would cost at least $260K (at $125 per sq ft would drive the cost to $325K. (Again, that is only for heated living place.) Foundation: The average 8' full basement runs about $17 sq ft. An alternative to block and poured foundations are Superior Wall systems. These 8', 9' and 10' manufactured wall systems start at $12 per sq. ft. Basements: Finished basements typically run $25 per square foot. Well and Septic: Typically a well with a well pump will cost about $4,500 and a septic system for a three bedroom home runs about $4,500, with a pump extra. These figures can vary depending on the depth of the water table and the soil conditions on the lot. Other variables are: - Sub-floors - Framing - Insulation - Interior Walls (drywall or white pine tongue and groove) - Painting and Staining - Flooring (vinyl, carpet, ceramic, terazzo, marble) - Fireplaces (cultured stone, real stone, wood mantle, fire boxes, wood burning stoves) - Mechanicals: (plumbing, electrical, heating and cooling systems) $450 per plumbing fixture for labor and materials, $2.80 sq ft for electrical labor and materials, $5,000 per unit for Heating Ventilating Air Conditioning. -Bathroom fixtures: vary depending on the quality level and price of the selections The average bathroom, fixtures such as a double sink, vanity, faucets, bath tub, 4' shower stall with door and standard toilet will start at approximately $2,500 per full bath. Whirlpools start at about $1,200 and garden tubs at about $800 plus the faucets and drains. - Kitchens: From gourmet to the fast food, it will vary. Allowances of $6,000-$9,000 for cabinetry and laminate counter tops and $2,800 for appliances are a good start. Granite, soapstone and Corian countertops are premium items, and will demand premium price. - Doors and windows - Roof: The price per square of heavy guage tin starts at $400 per square plus the installation labor. - Deck etc., etc., etc.

Devou paint has been around for some time (in my area), and is considered high quality, professional paint. The paint and the stain is by ICI Paints, whose home office is based out of UK. They sell paints / stains all over the world. Some of their other more popular brands are Glidden paints, Dulux paints, Cuprinol stains (sold in europe and asia) and many others. There are ICI Dulux paint stores that distribute the stain. I've seen the stain and my dealer gave me literature on it early last year (or maybe the year before) but have not used it, nor do I know anyone else that has used it. I was trying to find the brochure, but I may have discarded it since at that time I was already working with too many stains. My ICI Dulux store was distributing Wolman and TWP stains at that time.

Ryan, You are correct about a very small amount of Sodium Hyroxide being present in Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO). Sodium hypochlorite is manufactured by mixing chlorine with sodium hydroxide and water. Bleach cycle starts with salt water, which is broken down by electric current into sodium hydroxide, hydrogen and chlorine. The sodium hydroxide is mixed with water. Next, chlorine is added to form sodium hypochlorite, the active ingredient in liquid bleach. I believe a 12% concentration of Sodium Hypochlorite contains less than 0.25% Sodium Hydroxide. Sodium Hypochlorite diluted to about 4% concentration, would then contain less than .084% Sodium Hydroxide. Much less than if a 10% Sodium Hydroxide based solution was diluted 1:25 (0.4%). I believe some of the folks sell 20% concentration of Sodium Hydroxide for roof cleaning and the dilutio ratios at 1:50 would than give you 10 times the amount contained in Sodium Hypochlorite.

These are some alternate asphalt roof cleaning chemicals to Sodium Hydroxide and Sodium Hypochlorite. Zinc sulfate (monohydrate). Zinc chloride. Copper sulfate (also called blue stone) Potassium salts of fatty acids. ZINC AND COPPER STRIPS (copper being more effective than zinc).

On asphalt and tile roofs, it is not necessary to neutralize with an acid as long as you are not adding a coating after washing. Water will neutralize it, and rain will remove any residue that may be left behind. When you are working with wood, you are in most cases adding a coating after cleaning so neutralizing is more critical. Also, the oxalic / citric acids will brighten the wood that the sodium hydroxide darkened.

$225K without the snow.

Ernie, In the 70's, I took many long walks along Lake Michigan in Chicago, wondering how all these people could afford the $100K boats in the slips and anchored to boueys. These walks led me to search for answers. I was fairly young at the time, so it took me a couple of years to figure it out. It goes something like this: - 80% of the wealthy made their wealth from investments (not from working hard). There is nothing wrong with hard work, I just happen to believe that working smart is easier and more profitable. - The value of land continues to increase every year as undeveloped land becomes scarse. (This was true in the 70's and it's still true today. Land is generally a good investment - unless it's swamp land in Louisiana.) When you buy land, don't let it sit idle. - The value of an average home has grown steadily (long term). - Refinance investment property to 100% level before you sell it - loans are not taxable but capital gains are. - The stock market (even with the blips) has averaged about 10% return on your LONG TERM investment since the end of the depression. - If you buy a new $4K car, as soon as you drive it off the lot, the value depreciates and it continues to depreciate until you get rid of it. (OK, now it's $20K or $30K cars but the principle is still the same) Buy 2 or 3 year old vehicle and invest the difference. - Discipline yourself to always save money. If you make $1,000 save at least $50. ($100 is better and $200 would be ideal.) - Invest your money long term, stop looking for the get quick rich schemes, learn about cost averaging and DRIP's. - Diversify your investments. - Keep small amount of cash in the bank (bank interest rates are always the lowest). - Always have some cash or liquid assets available for low dollar purchase opportunities (buy low and sell high). - Invest in people, not in schemes. - Giving money with the heart will always, in turn, return to you with interest. - The first $100K is the hardest to save. If you can get there, it's MOSTLY down-hill from there (as long as you don't fall asleep behind the wheel or start cashing in your chips). Remember 10% of $1000 is $100; 10% of $100,000 is $10,000 and 10% of $1,000,000 is $100,000. There are more, but these are the 1am highlights of my observations.

Here are some things I consider key elements to follow for a successful 1 person show. - Don't chase the $100 jobs - it costs more than what you will make. If you want to do this, make sure it's built into your business plan as your learning curve and you have money backing you. - Look for the longer length/term jobs - repeat customers, add-on sales, maintenance contracts. (Spend less time estimating & more working.) Look for 1 full day job vs. (4) 2 hour jobs; (1) week long job vs. (5) 1-day jobs; etc., etc. - Look for a niche or type of work that others may not be willing to take on - it pays better. - Diversify some, but don't lose sight of your expertise or core business. Diversify into areas so when it's raining, you can still work; when it's snowing, you can still work; (if you need to) etc., etc. - Work hard to keep your good customers - they will always bring work your way and it reduces your marketing costs. This means you always have to pay attention to details when you do the work. Oh, and don't forget to dump your lousy customers - send them to your competition. - There are more, but I hope you get the picture of the direction I'm heading. As for the math, if you can AVERAGE $600 per day, 5 days a week, 8 months a year, you can gross $103,200 for 1 person. In order to do this, you will most likely have to work an average of 6 days a week (5 days to work and 1 day for estimating). In otherwords, you are working 204 days out of 365 days in a year. If you take 35% away for yourself (gross income) that's $36,120 before taxes. Look to see how you can raise that $600 per day average to $1000 per day (over the 8 month period of time) and now you've increased your gross to $172,000. Adding a second person can and should reduce your actual work time by 35% or roughly 71 days a year or about 2 days a week. (More is better - if it's less, you most likely need to find a different employee or FIRE YOURSELF.) If you spend 1 of these 2 day a week selling/estimating and can keep your employee busy all 71 days (with minimal supervision) you should be able to average at least another $500-600 per day (or $35K-$42K per year). This will allow you to jump into the $200,000+ arena. Of course, if your split with your company is better than 35%, then your numbers will look even better.

Hello Bill, Been a long time. Welcome to the BB. I hope your purchase/expansion has been rewarding. I never got into interior clean-up. I couldn't handle having that many bosses (women) on a job and some of the conversations they have, could make even a sailor blush (I got my first Baptism as production engineer at USPL/Corning). Anyway, my sister in-law owned a maid service for about 15 years before I helped her get into new construction cleaning (she never forgave me). The business is no longer in the family since she passed - no one else was interested in "real" work. If I remember correctly, the exterior window cleaning was a separate line item. Interior windows were included unless they had the glass house look (as some of the customs do). I believe her standard sq ft rate included 1 or 1.2 windows per 100 sq ft. (I don't remember her ever saying she had any issues over windows.) Don't quote me on this, but I believe she was in the $0.24-$0.26 per sq ft range on production and about $0.28-$0.30 on the custom homes. I don't think light fixtures and ceiling fans got a spit shine, but they were expected to look good from the ground. Bathroom and kitchen sinks and related fixtures were to be spotless, along with any mirrors. Coming from the maid service industry, these folks could spit out homes after they learned how to remove paint overspray and drips. Women have more patience and dexterity - they can run circles around men on this type of work.

First and foremost, WELCOME to the BB - JD! I would suggest you establish the exact requirements and expectations with the general contractor as this type of work can vary from builder to builder. Some have more stringent requirements than others and most are cost focused. If at all possible, look at some of the homes before and after clean-up to see what is normally exceptable for the GC. As a general rule: They will pay the least to get the job done and expect the most. In most cases they alrady have a set budget. If you are looking for a "general" list it would include: - Windows (inside/outside), remove protectors and clean as necessary, window sills; - Doors; - Window and door mouldings; - May include walls if scuffed and can be cleaned; - Floors (hardwood, tile and carpeting); - Bathrooms (bathtub, toilet, sink, floor, cabinets, fixtures, windows; - Kitchen (cabinets, sink, counter, splash plates, tiles, - Laundry room, bedrooms, closets - Basements- Fixtures (lights, ceiling fans, etc.) - Cabinets (exterior and interior) - Removing paint drips, construction dust / dirt, foot prints, hand prints, etc.

David, Last week we hit -8F. This week the night temperature varied from 4 to 25F; days 17 to 35F. Next week looks the same +/- a couple degrees. We've had snow on the ground for a couple of weeks and we've been alternating between rain and snow as the temperature moves up and down. I can't remember the last day when we had sunshine. Can be depressing for a lot of folks. I'd settle for some days in the 40's.

In my opinion, the best are all Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide or Butyl based products. % of of Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide is critical, and the line where it cleans vs. where it strips can sometimes be fairly thin. If you have a product that's fairly close to working, I would boost it a bit with it's base component (Potassium or Sodium Hydroxide). You would need to play a bit to get the exact proportions to work for you. You can buy raw materials at www.TheChemistryStore.com A 1/2 to 1% boost would be effective. I think the other key is water hardness, based on observation using the same product(s) which most times worked but sometimes did not work so well. Softer water always seemed to clean better. These are the ones that I've used brushing and brushless. Gutter Shock Gutter Zap All-Brite Krud Kutter

Economist Robert Shiller, in his book Irrational Exuberance, analyzed the relationship between Price-Earnings ratio for the S&P500 and future returns on those stocks. Using historical data, he tracked a trading strategy that invested in January of a given year and then held for 10 years. For years in which the PE for the S&P 500 was higher than 20 (which is somewhat, though not more than twice, the historical average), the ensuing ten years typically showed very low compound annual returns. In fact, of the 16 years in which the PE was higher than 20, only two of these 16 purchases would have enjoyed a compound, real return of more than 5%--and even these two showed returns of only a little more than 5%. At the same time, buying when the PE for the S&P 500 was low -for example, lower than 10 - produced real returns in excess of 5% in all 16 of the years in which that strategy would have purchased stocks. Half of these ten-year real returns, in fact were, higher than 10%.

David, Welcome to the board! What products have you tried so far? Have you tried anything other than brushing?