Paul B.

OTP, The only problem for me would be more wear and tear on the big engine at $3-7K vs. a separate water heater. Kind of like when they came out with high definition for large screen TV, the decoders were integrated into the TV. When the decoder crapped out you couldn't watch even analog TV. Then they took it and are now selling it separately. If it fails, I can still watch analog until I replace it or get it repaired. If they make an upgrade, just switch it out w/o losing your TV. It's hard to believe thay can't make a real effective propane or natural gas heater. What about solar boost - lot of folks heat their pool that way. Just need a couple of hundred panels on your rig. Tisk, Tisk...

Jon, I'm no longer a thrill seeker although from time to time I like to burn out the carbon on my rice burning pocket rocket. 0-60 in 2.7. - not so stock KZ900. It's like shooting a bazooka. Kicks in the afterburner at about 6-Grand. Need a seat belt. Mom at 75 loves the back seat. She just about choked me though when I popped a wheely. After it was all said and done, she was ready for more. Better half would rather walk since we nearly put it down when an SUV pulled out in front of us and stopped as it was trying to cross the street with nowhere to go. We were in a heavy slide heading heavily sideways and almost beyond the point of no return (about 3/4 way down). I'm sure she had her eyes closed since normally she is trying to tell me what to do but I heard no sound from the rear. My adrenalin kicked in and it was slo-mo for me. Made it by the skinny-skin-skin as someone let him thru. I don't have time to ride it too much so a friend is getting a good deal - just hope he's safe.

Greg, I'm with you. There is a small area on the top railing and spindles that may need some stripping action but I would have the guys try a strong mix of cleaner first. I have EFC-38 that will work on this. Thanks!

Tony, I'm curious, are you using a close-up attachment? and Did you have a problem priming the striper to that elevation? When we use our extension wand, you have to lower it to get it going, then after it's going everything is fine.

Thanks or your input Greg! I think Beth's & Greg's credability provides speedy clarification of this issue. It's an issue of having some folks with inexperience telling other folks with inexperience what works and what doesn't work. I'm not sure if it's a lack of proper application, mixing, or general mistakes, etc. I know there is definitely a lack of knowledge around ratios and dilutions especially when it gets to upstreaming, downstreaming and the use of the X-Jet. Sometimes things spill over from one BB to another and tend to pick up momentum like a snowball rolling down a hill. Who's the designated snowball catcher this week?

It's not a desired characteristic. It's an inherited gene! And don't you forget it!!!

Hope for your sake the meanness was not hereditary. Every stupid thing I do is blamed on inherited genes from my parents. You ever do night diving among a school of sharks. See only what's ahead. Every time you bump into something you hope it's not the big one.

Jon, By law they have to insure. But it doesn't of course have to be affordable. It certainly reflects in the premiums. I've seen it in Hurricane country - having spent many weeks trying to find rates that wouldn't put us into bankruptcy. I've also said that I'll sit thru ten Hurricanes in the Keys before I take on one Tornado in Missouri or Kansas - Toto. We sat thru one just a few years ago that had the eye come directly over us. As I understand, because of it's structure, the 1-4 o'clock area of a hurricane is the most distructive.

Jon, I stand corrected and behind you. Is this an age before beauty thing? Or are you deserving of a "Mean California Daddy-O" tag?

Do you folks know why women make some of the best sales people?

OTP, Yes, it should have made sense to me the first time around. Sorry, I thought you meant when can we start guessing the answer (thought you were trying to be funny). I suppose I was giggling too much to think you were serious. So bump Joel to the second "Atta-Person" and we'll give you the first one. Sorry Joel - same answer different technique. Well maybe I was a bit hasty about women being better sales people. But the fact is they still ask for commitment all the time -like when are you gonna get that room painted; when are you going to clean out that garage. Kind of like the Meatloaf song: "so, what's it going to be boy?" Men are the "roundtoit" type. - Soon, I'll get around to it.

Give the man an Atta-Person" (we no longer carry Atta-Boy). 100 "Atta-Persons" will buy a cup of java. 1 "Aw Sh.." wipes out all "Atta-Person" See how it all ties together? It makes so much sense to me! As for OTP, you can tell he needs more training in listening. :D

Before I get any sexist remarks let me ask this: What is one of the key elements in closing deal?

Women make the best sales people because they never hesitate to ask for a commitment. Prrrdm puh! Tsss!!!

I'm going to disagree. Care to take another guess?

Not even warm. Any other guesses?

I found one quickly in my mailbox however it does not mention HD-80 specifically, but rather refers to the top 2 quaility Sodium Hydroxide based strippers. I know HD-80 is considered #1 so... Anyway, here is the link: http://www.deckcare.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=957&perpage=15&pagenumber=2 I know there are others but I did not see them in my mailbox as I erase a lot every day to keep things to minimum.

I believe the last comment was on Greg's board, but I couldn't swear as things have been very dynamic for the past week for me. If it's not there, I'll see if I can find it in the next couple of days - I need to concentrate on a few things here until we get things back on track (normal stuff, it just gets stacked up sometimes - kind of like landing at Kennedy or LaGuardia.)

Beth, Thank you, it was more than 2 cents worth to me! It addressed all MY questions and confirmed all my assumptions and experiences. You and I are in 99% agreement. I would not advocate the application of acids and or sodium hydroxide with the X-Jet but it could be acceptable under some very strict and specific uses as far as I'm concerned and that is based on my experience strictly with our set-up (along the lines of using guns, bazookas and cross-bows in their proper applications.) As you said, the consideration and practice of safety should always come first in lieu of speed and profits. The reason I was pressing on the Sodium Hydroxide issue was not the cleaning of asphalt but it's effectiveness on mold and mildew removal. Over the past several days I have seen several people on different boards talk about the need to do a 3 or even 4 step operation to strip with a Sodium Hydroxide based solution (including HD-80). I have limited exposure to HD-80 but have applied it where mold and mildew was present, with great success. I have also used other sodium hydroxide based solutions on mold and mildew effected wood with success and was wondering about the difference in experiences. If I believed that one stripper worked well by dilution only on all applications, you better believe I wouldn't carry 6 different ones. Same along the lines of the X-Jet. I am willing to jump out there and say that the proper tools, chemical selection and applications are what separates the pros from the rest (getting paid alone does not necessarily by itself qualify a person as being a pro). Thanks! Differences of opinions are expected as are frank discussions. I was trying to get all the cards on the table. I really hope I haven't offended anyone. If I have, please accept my deepest and sencerest apology. Good day!

I understand your thought process and agree with most of what you said about different products being mixed differently to address different cleaning needs. Without much fan-fare, I would like to add that I have some background education in chemistry and that I have been exposed to some of the worlds best research labs at P&G, Dupont & Allied (other than walking by them) thru the past 30 years and hopefully some things have rubbed off even inadvertantly. Which leads me to say that I don't agree with the use of Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide or Sodium Metasilicate necessarily for cleaning asphalt roofs. The oils in the asphalt and the bonding between the asphalt and the "rocks" breaks down with these chemicals much faster than with sodium hypochlorite (I'll vouch for that first hand, as I've watched the color of the wash going down the gutters turn from pretty blue/green/yellow colors to oily brown - not moldy black). My main question or dilemma still remains to be unaddressed. "I'm curious in the comment about HD-80 not being effective on mold and mildew removal. Are we saying that if you use HD-80 to strip a mold and mildew effected deck, then you need to use EFC-38 before brightening / neutralizing?" Then the question becomes should one clean a surface with EFC-38 first before stripping with HD-80 to remove the mold and mildew? Or after using HD-80? Or is bleach/Clorox/pool shock even more effective than EFC-38 on mold & mildew and in severe cases acceptable to use to remove it in lieu of the threat of wood damage? Still trying not to be antagonistic or argumentative but: I would just like to know the approach others take as there is a lot of general conversations on products and uses in short bursts of messages, but not detail enough to satisfy me needs. I don't have a problem with going out and experimenting as I do anyway but why not share all the info if it's available.

The reasons Johny mentioned were why I recommended litmus paper. It should help take the guessing out of your game and make choosing the right solution a lot faster if you know what pH area you are dealing in. I also remember the post - and if I remember correctly, those crystals were caused by the oxalic not being fully rinsed and appeared on a sealed deck. It was successfully removed with a light hot water washing.

Ron, Folks, Please help me out a bit and please don't take the following as being argumentative (even if it may sound like it from your perspective). Me, myself and I (and maybe others) are somewhat puzzled. Here is what I think I know, so you will see my dilemma. EFC-38 will not remove all stains - as I understand, it was designed as a heavy duty cleaner that has the ability to remove some to a fair number of failing stains. HD-80 was specifically designed for heavy duty stripping applications. (I've read the MSDS and tub info on both). Personally I wouldn't take a bath in either, but DILUTED ENOUGH you can swim in it, or drink it (I'm sure we all drink things that are a lot worse that our water department neglects to tell us). Remember how everyone fears sodium hypochlorite? Our drinking waters are chlorinated and so are our pools (dilution in effect). Heck, I remember folks using straight 3-1/4% content Clorox to wash skin effected by poison ivy and poison oak. Most hand soaps and at least some hair shampoos contain sodium hydroxide (lye). Even Clorox contains sodium hydroxide (less than 1% - closer to 1/4%). I'm curious in the comment about HD-80 not being effective on mold and mildew removal. Are we saying that if you use HD-80 to strip a mold and mildew effected deck, then you need to use EFC-38 before brightening / neutralizing? In the same respect to HD-80, my understanding is it contains a high percentage of sodium hydroxide (10% range). A large number of the roof cleaning solutions offered on the market are sodium hydroxide based chemicals (in similar range) used specifically in mold and mildew removal from asphalt type roof shingles. I hope you can see my dilemma and hope we can discuss it to clear up MY dilemma.

I'm hearing a lot of good ideas - that's what I was after. Thanks! To be honest, the stain is very faded and has been well worn off, other than a couple of areas. Wetting is most likely all that will be done. I will be there anyway on this job, as the man is a retired military person and we'll be trading stories (he's a story teller). He also has a deck on the back of the house that runs the full length - couple of trees going thru it. The deck is in total disrepair - although the lumber is in good shape. I'm going to be working to get that job - it's probably about 1600-1700 sq ft with railing and steps, etc. I like to spend time with the customer - it's my job, it can be fun and rewarding.

It could be drinking beer - in todays day and age, I have to take some responsibility and can't buy the crew drinks all night. They get one round and they are on their own - we help with transport home if they look like they had way too much fun. No one is obligated to attend this type of a session and no one is treated any different if they don't attend. But this only happens every now and then anyway, it's not a regular event. Team building can be other things such as a BBQ, picnic, pig roast, going to a baseball game, playing softball on a Sunday, working as a team to do maintenance on equipment, cleaning up the shop, going to a seminar, having lunch provided, testing equipment, visiting vendor shops, given an opportunity to problem solve and input as a team. Most any situation can be turned into team building session by allowing the folks to work side-by-side, talk about work and other items openly, giving them the ability to openly input, listen to each other and get to know one and all. I also encourage people to be innovative, not be scared to admit their mistakes (never beat up anyone for a mistake - unless it's the same one for the third time, than the GLOVES COME OFF). We always try to have a theme and the formal get togethers (meetings) have a clear objective and agenda. But most of all I encourage people to have fun while they are working (there are some basic common-sense guidelines to go with that of course).

Earl, The pole photo was a dramatization of chlorine turning to salt. There is one more thing that you can do. If that's an acid residue, you can neutralize or buffer its effect with sodium bicarbonate (plain old baking soda - should have remembered from my old chemistry lessons). I always keep several boxes on each trailer and truck as we work with a lot of acids. Along with rinsing, baking soda will be your fastest neutralizer for acids - good for indigestion of the wood and your stomach. As someone else mentioned, percarbonate cleaners are also slightly acidic and may help to neutralize your surface if your PH is above 7. As an added note, lot of folks carry vinegar, as it is an acid and will neutralize the effects of alkalyn based strippers. Another way to tell what the white areas are would be to wet the area and place a strip of litmus paper on the damp surface. This should give you a peek at the woods pH. Litmus paper (pH strips) can be had at your local pool supply houses - some K-Mart and Meijer stores that carry pool supplies may also have it on their shelves.