Paul B.
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Posts posted by Paul B.
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Ron P.,
If you have seals and o'-rings that are compatible or more compatible with bleach, your pump life should see minimal decrease in life. Sodium Hypochlorite removes oils or other additives in materials that keep them pliable/soft. Even if you rinse, the water will not put back the content of what the Sodium Hypochlorite removed. I don't have a cross section of a pump in front of me, so I can't speak to anything else, other than if the materials are sensitive to Sodium Hypochlorite, their life will be shortened also. How fast things corrode, how fast oils are removed from the o-rings and seals are difficult to predict, but it corrolates to the compatability issue.
Why don't you take 3 oz. of a 1 pound bag of crystal pool shock (65%) and mix into a gallon of water? Test the pH of that mix and a gallon of 12-1/4% liquid Mix the remainder in 3 oz. increments also and see how they compare. You can alter it by increasing and decreasing the crystal content.
Remember: Safety First and Make IT Last! Wear appropriate safety gear.
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Ron P.,
An area of challange to overcome with the dual hose set-up would be making a dual feed hose reel. Two hoses rolling up on 1 reel need water and chemical handling capability in the rotary union and at the connection point. It can be done, but would be a special - unless you know someone that makes a stock one.
Unless the Dema valve can shut off totally, you would still need the ball valve (I wish they were only $2). Relocating the valve closer to the trigger for easier access would be helpful.
The hanging tube is a pain in the butt and could be modified with a 45 or 90 fitting to have it follow the wand path back. Testing may show if there is any vortex issues with the 45 or 90.
I'm not sure how a vortex would interface with a Shur-flo feed - you would most definitely need to overfeed the X-Jet so you're not starving it.
Keep the ideas coming!
Bob,
I can relate to your story as I run across similar ones from time to time.
I hang out at Lowe's and Home Depot a lot and every time I see someone buying a P/W I give them one of my cards. I tell them they can call me with any questions without an obligation. I get funny looks, but I do get calls from time to time. Some are by men, more are by women and a few actually have rolled over to be jobs.
Anything higher than a ranch is a sinch. The other closer is the gutter cleaning demo. I carry photos with me for times when a hands on demo is not possible. I have made up some business cards with demo photos on the back. Most folks don't use the back of their cards, but I think it's wasted space if you don't have some kind of message on there.
One of these days I'll take a bunch of flyers from HD and staple my cards inside, then put them back into the display slots - but that would be considered "too guerilla" wouldn't it.
I love happy endings, don't you?
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Perssonally, I think the frustration level is higher and time spent is longer changing out a proportioner than calculating a ratio.
I admit it does take some time to learn how to calculate it, but once you know it makes you a bit smarter and allows you more flexibility.
But, let me list a few of my reasons. (These aren't in any specific order.)
1) I think as a professional P/W, you (as in general you) should know how to calculate ratios. This power will provide you the ability to make changes in your chemical mix at any time, any place without the need for tools or parts (other than pencil & paper). Of course, you could always have a cheat sheet with all the ratios calculated for your favorite chemicals, but that would be a lot of work.
2) Not all mix ratios are covered in the kit so you end up making a compromise if you want a ratio that is not there. (I know this sounds picky, but I don't like to have a piece of equipment limit my flexability).
3) The pieces are very small and easy to lose. If you don't learn to calculate, what happens if you lose one? You have to wait til another is shipped to you. It could be especially bad if you lost one just before a job. (Again, I know I'm picky, because you could just insert the next size and be done with it.)
4) Changing the proportioners is not the easiest task to perform, especially if you needed to do it on a job site. (Remove the hose clamp, pull off the tube, remove the piece with needle-noze pliers, look on your chart, get a different color out - is this light brown, or medium brown?, install it, push the hose on the barb, install & tighten hose clamp.) The parts are tiny and again I'll say easy to lose. Now all this really doesn't sound like much of a chore until you experience it first hand.
5) If you have more than one machine and they are different GPM's the ratios will be different and could cause confusion (this is probably not that big of an issue for most folks, but may be for a few).
6) It's just another part to wear out. Minimize your spare parts.
OK, maybe you shouldn't pitch the kit because none of the above items are an issue for you, but I still think it's a good idea to know how to calculate ratios.
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Most epoxies are 2 part (A&B). One of these is the hardener which when mixed, starts the hardening/curing process. There are many types of epoxies out there with different hardeners.
That is why I suggested calling the epoxy manufacturer for their recommendation, otherwise you could spend a lot of time and energy without getting any favorable results.
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Try 70% - it may work (I always used 99.9%). - Again, this was not for cured epoxy resin so??? Some drug stores like CVS carry higher percentage content but not sure on the 99.9%. Always purchased it from chemical supply houses. Some electronics or even computer stores may carry it.
Since Acetate didn't work, my bet would be with MEK.
Sometimes mineral acids like HCl will break down the epoxy but this is risky if you don't know the content as the incompatability may be hazardous (the epoxy manufacturer should be able to tell you more before you take this path).
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I understand that Extreme Solutions was coming out with a thickener for HD-80, for exactly what you are asking. Beth should carry it if it's available. If she doesn't drop in here, you can call her at (877) 426-9274.
Sounds like you learned some KEY elements of deck restoration work:
- Test for stripping as latex is more difficult to remove and therefore your charges should corrolate with that effort (however, your charges should not reflect inexperience - unless it lowers your price, nor should it reflect lack of organization).
- Have lot a patience - most people run out of patience when it comes to allowing appropriate dwell time for chemicals (that applies to other chemicals and not just strippers).
- You were correct when you said you should adjust and work in smaller sections at a time. The larger the area you are trying to work, the more difficult to keep track of dwell time and also afford the proper attention to each area.
- Should have a checklist for each job on what type of chemicals you need to have and should also carry back-ups with you. Try to carry more than what you need as "Murphy" looms over all our heads (Whatever can go wrong, will!)
- The one thing that will help you the most is what you take away from each job in learnings and how you apply your learnings on each subsequent job.
- Deck restoration is one of the more if not most difficult trades to learn (in the arena of P/W), as there are many types of wood, each one is aged and finished differently; so many different stains have been applied and in so many different methods.
Hang in there, don't give up! After all, if it was that easy to do, the customers would not need the contractor! Would they?
The diversity and potential income it can provide for your business, outweighs the problems you are facing on the uphill side of your learning curve. Before long you'll look back and say this is not so difficult after all.
Keep working at it!
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Our resin clean-up was always fairly fresh. Once the hardener sets up it is a tough cookie to break down - that is why I said "chisel".
We used epoxy to "weld" cracked metal (emergency care only). It can be machined, and is stronger than steel at lower temperatures. Of course Epoxy Resin is a bit different, but still a tough nut to crack.
Try the purest Isopropyl Alcohol and keep soaking it for about 10-15 minutes. Again, depending on what kind of hardener is used will determine what will break it down. The hardest part is keeping it soaked since most of the effective solutions also evaporate fast. You may want to cover it with plastic (if it doesn't it thru it).
I think M.E.K. works best on paint removal (for a solution w/o thickener) and has been my favorite. Unfortunately I think it is being taken off shelves. I purchased a couple cases frome HD for $1 per gallon. I first thought it was a dented can sale, but then I found out is was being removed from their shelves. I have not read or heard anything else, but I know I have not seen it re-stocked or stocked at Sears Hardware or my other local Hardware stores.
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The product name is "Rez Away" and it looks like companies may have changed hands or ??? but anyway, Paradigm Labs (888) 933-4554 out of Pine Grove, PA - if they don't sell it, they can tell you a distributor for it.
Another option would be to find out the exact product your customer was mixing and find a local boat repair shop that repairs hulls and give them a call. The product manufacturer may also be a good source for clean up info.
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Tony,
This company is a full time business, not a weekender - but they are newer in the area (don't know how long). They have large 1/2 and Full page ads in "Rearch" and other "Savings" magazines.
They quoted DEFY to the customer (what they put on and how many coats???). Defy's claim and fame is based on synthetic materials that are not food for mold and mildew like oil based products (they don't say anything about synthetic oils). They did a good job of twisting things around. I tried to un-twist it for the customer but he was already sold on the product. It always amazes me what a piece of paper with written info on it can do. (If it's written, it must be true!)
I explained in detail to the customer about oil based products and water based products and gave him a 2 page write-up. To be honest, I don't think he saw past the price and the fact that he was told that it is the BEST product on the market. Like I said, based on his follow-up questions, he didn't read everything I presented and he had way too may questions - indicating he did no homework on his own. I'll wait a couple of months and see if he'll let me take a look at the deck and ask him if I can also look at it in the spring.
The DEFY sales packet includes a Lab report comparing water resistance and color retention capabilities against products like WeatherSeal, TWP, Super Deck, CWF UV, Wolman, Penofin, High Sierra and about 4 or 5 other low end products. They are ranked #1 in both categories. But Independent testing and reports can be twisted to look any way you want. If you had 3 different reports, I bet they woul all look different.
I talked to the DEFY distributor and he supplies that company. They may get a much better contractor price than I was offered - I was not able to get a hint (I pushed pretty hard and my last negotiating resort was to ask for a per year quantity price). But even at that, like you said ($0.58 per sq ft), it can't produce long term quality results.
Assuming that this is a legitimate company, the only thing I can
guess is that they are making a major introductory product blitz for their company at cost or just a hair above. If they have deep pockets this could work long term (repeat customers and word of mouth). We'll see how many times we cross paths and what next year brings. I don't consider them major competition since the consumer base and area is large and has not been saturated.
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Poly rain gear would be most appropriate along with eye protection respirator and gloves.
The EK Restoration Cleaner is fairly neutral in PH (5.5) so a hat, faceshield/goggles (avoid ones with tiny breather holes in top), long sleeve shirt and gloves are adequate. With the jells, respiratory protection is not necessary (as long as you keep your head out of the bucket).
When spraying acid based liquids, I would highly recommend respiratory protection!
We keep a bucket of clean water and rags near by for cool-off and skin rinsing purposes all the time. When working with acids (even while wearing eye protection) there is some minor risk of getting the chemical in your eyes, so havinging an eye rinse kit is highly recommended.
The KEY for me is long term protection. A single exposure may or may not impact your health if unprotected (how lucky do you feel?), however, continued exposure will have negative health impacts if proper protection is not used. I would also recommend yearly health screening/check-ups.
Remember: Safety First, and Make IT Last!
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Tony,
You explained it very well and I approve! :D
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Chisel?
My first choice would be to try Isopropyl Alcohol (make sure you pour some on the epoxy also) should work best as it breaks down the Epoxy Resin.
We used Acetone in boat building. MEK should also work, but the problem you may have with solvent based cleaners is the actual clean up (as in removal from the concrete - depending on how pourus it is). Kind of like smearing paint around with a rag.
The Norac Co. Inc. makes an emulsifier cleaner that works also they are in CA. (818) 334-2908.
Good Luck!
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I wonder how long this company will stay in business?
It's a fairly large deck cleaning company in my area and they use Defy as their primary stain.
Anyway, I'm kind of backing into this story as it is still unfolding but here is the crucks of it:
I was asked to bid on a deck for a friend of a friend. The deck surface is about 700 square feet, but by the time you add all the railing, faceboard, supports, steps, lattice, etc., etc., etc. for this 3-tier unit, the square footage swells to over 1720 square feet. It has failing stain and a large amount of vegetation/landscaping and all 3 tiers are nested against the house. (I would post photos, but it's still a pending bid.) Because it is a friend of a friend, I bid it at about $1.08 per square foot using a $22/gallon stain. The customer was interested in Defy as it was sold to him as the best stain in the world (what stain isn't?). So I talked to the rep, obtained verbal and printed product info and got his best price (retail $35 per gallon $27 contractor). Coverage requires 2 coats and the average of both coat ends up at about 200 sq ft per gallon or about 18 gallons for the job.
To get to the crux: The customer calls and is asking for clarification as I'm told my bid is 2x to 3x the other bid(s).
I gave this customer a 2 page document (along with the estimate/contract) explaining the same thing I explained over the phone (I knew he didn't read it because of the questions he asked - the info package I sent him cost almost $3 in postage - maybe he was overwhelmed.)
The next lowest competitions bid was at $1000 with tax so his rate is about $0.58 per square foot to strip, neutralize and apply 2 coats of material that will cost about $500+. With the masking and other factors it's definitely a 20 man hour job but even if they wear jet packs and finish in 10 hours the billing rate before taxes and without materials is only $44 per hour. The lowest bid was around $700 from ??? (I didn't even ask).
I sent the customer back to the competition with questions and told him if he thinks he feels comfortable, to go with it, but think about the process and try to imagine the end product and low cost labor (his house is about $400,000). I'll bet short term cost savings potential is too enticing for him to refuse.
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If anyone is interested, Office Max has digital scales for about $30. It does a great job for mail as well as chemicals as it has a self analysis/calibration - the manual spring type are too prone to giving faulty readings as temperature effects the accuracy.
As someone mentioned, when you are weighing chemicals, don't forget to measure your measuring cup (plastic is light, but glass could be heavy and throw off your results).
One suggestion may be to measure out several 2, 4, 6 and 8 oz.
packets of frequently used chemicals into freezer type bags.
Kind of an emergency kit.
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By the way, I tested close to 20 different products on paint oxidization and lime runs on brick and I am staying with the Prosoco products. I really like the jell products even though they have to be rolled on. With rolling, the product is actually very cost effective and provides the dwell time needed in some cases.
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I received a non-renewal notice also. But you know what is interesting? The agent has not called or e-mailed for alternate options. You would think that if they were on the ball, a follow-up with an alternative would be offered. Sounds like they don't need my business. It's always amazing for me on how agents talk themselves right out of your account.
I had an agent for 20 years and I called them for business insurance a couple of years ago and was told that it was too expensive for me so they wouldn't even get me a quote. Imagine that! I was speechless! How could someone be so bold as to determine for a customer what is too expensive and what is not? Needless to say that I hesitated, but after a brief cooling-down period I switched all of my policies to a different agent.
Hey, call me mamma's boy, whiner (my emergency number is whine-1-1), spoiled, etc., but I like to be treated special. After all, I treat all my customers that way. Why shouldn't I expect the same in return?
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Don't you just love it when the customer decides to do the house siding after you finished the deck just under it?
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You will run across one of those from time to time and it can kill all your profit on that job (hopefully not more). The only thing I know (others may have more sophisticated methods) to do is to wait until the weeping has slowed/stopped but before the stains have dried and keep wiping off the streaks with a soft damp brush (a car brush on an extension pole). If you let it dry on the surface, some stains will become extremely (I mean extremely) difficult to remove. Do not keep rinsing with a hose or P/W as this will only prolong/increase your problem. Keep wiping with a damp brush, mop, rag, etc.
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I recommend the use of the X-Jet (or equivalent).
Keep the extension wand, a long 16ft extension pole for brushing the stubborn stains on facia boards and some 2nd story gutters.
Purchase a spare close range nozzle ($11.95).
Test the X-Jet and Close Range nozzle to check ratio results with your equipment.
Learn to calculate ratios for your set-up (and ditch the proportioner kit supplied with the X-Jet).
You'll never look back.
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Who could forget the unforgettable harp lines of Paul Butterfield, or drool over the undrooling licks of Kim Wilson or hear the unheard of Norton Buffalo runs. The list goes on and on with the likes of sweet Annie Raines, James Cotton, Paul DeLay, Little Walter, Jimmy Reed, Big Walter Horton, Charlie Musselwhite, Rod Piazza, Sugar Blue, Junior Wells, Magic ****, Billy Branch, Jerry McCain, Gary Primich, Carey Bell, Sonny Boy Williams I & II.
We'll the Blues Boys and I certainly can't. So we must bid fond adue (at least for 5-7 days) as our journey begins to Bluesfest.
Lucky 14 is still packing but Peetie is ready to go - he has just finished tuning the reeds and testing the microphones (he's a light packer). Don't forget, Peetie likes pizza crust and hot pepperoni for his reward, Lucky 14 likes Hot Pepper cheese and I like a cold one after a hot number.
I hope you can join us in the big city and celebrate with us.
"Blues With a Feeling!"
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Tony,
I think you are a very intelligent person but in this area you seem to reject science and math. It doesn't seem like I could ever convince you or sway you from your position but let me take one more shot.
- Your assumptions on crystal pool shock is incorrect. Some pool shock contains as much as 65% potassium hypochlorite. The higher percentage of active ingredients in a crystal packet, the more likely you are to get lucky when not using the whole package, besides if a half package does not get you the result you want, what do you do? You test the pH and add more shock to the water. (If you are after hit or miss, this process works well and also sells more product for the manufacturer and the distributor, but raises your cost as a contractor.)
What happens when you have a mix that is supposed to contain 1% of the main ingredient - how lucky do you think you'll get to obtain the same result every time?
- You are correct about blending, but there are several ways of mixing fillers (for example, 1 crystal chunk could contain 3 different chemicals another example would be that some crystals are created larger than others so that you have a better chance of scooping some into your container - I could list at least 6 other methods used but I'm not sure I could convince you, as it sounds like your mind is made up.
- I think your approach is in reverse when you say "Unless the manufacturer specifically says to not do it..." But then again, I can tell you're a risk taker.
I'm disappointed that the marbles concept couldn't be translated to chemistry for you, but do talk to a pharmacist when you get a chance. If the pharmacist can't convince you, then keep doing what you're doing and I hope your advice to others does not create problems for them.
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I personally do not advocate Tony's approach to anyone as it is a hit or miss process. Unless you know how the chemicals are blended or what the process was to create it, my advise is always to follow proper procedures so that you achieve the same results every time. If not sure, than ask questions rather than assume (as a matter of fact, as the same question 2 or 3 times as even mfg. reps. can lead you astray). Lot of the chemicals we deal with are dangerous at one level or another. In addition, if you're not getting something clean, you'll know that the chemical is not strong enough or not the proper solution rather than wonder if you mixed the chemicals properly. After all cleaning is about chemistry AND established procedures vs. hit and miss approaches.
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Tony, Tony, Tony,
In regards to the mixing of dry chemicals - let me reassure you that it's not a speculation. In some cases it will make a major difference. But you are correct that it does not always apply.
The key here is to know when it does and when it doesn't apply vs. guessing.
There are chemicals that are mixed in liquid form then dehydrated so that 3 chemicals may be in 1 granule of crystal. There are others that have 5 different crystals that are mixed together in equal or different percentages. In some instances you are playing with percentages that may not be critical. Other cases the exact percentages are what makes the mix work properly.
There are a couple of things you can do to see how the percentages work. Get yourself 100 colored marbles.
20 will be red - representing Sodium Hydroxide
10 will be green - representing Sodium Metasilicate
10 will be orange - representing Oxyethelene
10 will be blue - representing Butoxyethanol
50 will be white - representing fillers or bonding agents
Mix up the marbles in a bucket and blindfolded pick out 10 groups of ten and see what combination of marbles you end up in each group.
You can do the same thing with coins.
If you end up with 10 reds in one group and 10 white in another, you ended up with one that's a stripper that will melt plastic and the other that will be good for watering plants. Keep the picks in order and see how your chances diminish as you get to the bottom of the bucket. (If you've reached your 5th set and there are no more greens or reds left in the bucket, the game is over.)
I bet you 100 marbles that you can't make each of the 10 sets come out exactly the same (blind-folded).
Next stop - your local pharmacist. Ask him/her if it's OK to take a half of a time release or other type capsules. Make sure to ask why it would not be OK. (By the way - if your pharmacist says it's OK to take a half capsule of time release medicine then you should change pharmacists.)
The other part of the chemistry that most tend to ferget is paying attention to the words "by weight" or "by volume". There could be no difference or there could be a major difference. 8 ounces by volume may only be 4 ounces by weight or vise versa.
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That's interesting - I've not heard that about the ants.
I hope you cut some of those and put em in a few rooms of your home. They are beautiful!
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Hi Rob,
I DO NOT recommend testing HD-80 at HALF strength on a customer's gutter, as it is extremely high in Sodium Hydroxide content for cleaning. HD-80 is intended to STRIP finishes at HALF and FULL strenghts or less.
The MSDS for HD-80 shows a 20% by weight Sodium Hydroxide content (but MSDS sheets are only required to show maximum levels not actuals so it could be between 10-20% or even less). Compared to the MSDS for Gutter Shock and Gutter Zap which claim less than 1% Sodium Hydroxide content, and Krud Kutter claims less than 2% Potassium Hydroxide. So you can see that the Sodium Hydroxide level could be 10 to 20 times what is needed to clean. Of course there are other components in all the cleaners and strippers that make one more effective than an other so the combination is also important.
Along with others, there is a great web site for chemical and safety information at www.inChem.org (check out the PIMs)
For house washes, we have used Limonene & All-Brite and have recently tested CitraCleen to give us alternatives. Each product provided us with excellent results. There are negatives with each product as with anything else, so care must be taken where they are used.
For wood stripping, I would say that OUR favorite is HD-80, as it is the most versatile or all-around product. It will strip oil and most acrylic based products. (I must note that there are a couple of other products that I understand are also very good, but we have not worked with those to this point.)
We have also used SafeStrip which is a very safe and mild stripper that works on Wolman F&P, TWP and Thompsons and is extremely gentle on cedar and will minimize furring. EFC-38 is also a very good product for mild stripping needs.
For the toughest jobs, we go to the solvent based products such as Bix Tuff-Job, Dad's, or Wolman A&L (very expensive).
Bix and Dad's work very well on urethane based stains such as some of Cabot products. I understand Back to Nature II is also a good product for removing acrylic based finishes.
should i buy the x-jet????????
in Tools, Equipment & Basic Maintenance
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The QD was in my mind also, I was trying to see if you could avoid having to unroll all of the hose every time, but now that I think about it we almost always use most of the 200ft of hose on the high pressure hose reels anyway.
Testing and problem solving is what has made me money in the past and will hopefully continue if and when I need it.
I can't say I like doing it all the time as it can get boring, but how else will you know how your equipment performs?
Our Shur-flo pumps have less capacity than the X-Jet draw rate so it won't do me any good to test that.
Thanks!