chemicals

[eric 14]

Hi,

I am trying to learn the basic chemicals / detergents to use on homes, concrete, etc. Do you have any suggestions on some basic chems . one should start using. eg tsp & 10% bleach - what ratio should one use for thsi combo. Is there a difference between bleach & chlorine both hypo chlorite (correct)?

[RyanH 14]

Wow. You're going to open Pandora's box with this type of an open-ended question. You'll get plenty of feedback from those more experience than myself on the ratios and concentrations of chemicals to use, so I'll skip that and try to give a little info on the differences in the chemicals.

Chlorine is the most popular chemical to use to kill mildew, mold, moss, and various other types of living things on a surface. Chlorine itself is a gas at normal temperatures, so it is delivered in the form of a hypochlorite. The hypochlorite is paired with one of several other materials, typically sodium, calcium, and as has recentely been noted on another thread, lithium. The concept of using chlorine in this form is akin to getting an iron supplement through the form of a iron sulfate tablet (instead of scarfing down iron shavings or sucking on an iron pipe).

Bleach from a store can be of many forms. Institutional bleach generally contains mostly water and sodium hypochlorite and is used specifically for disinfecting surfaces.

Laundry bleach contains the sodium hypochlorite and some other surfactants (soaps) to help dislodge dirt/grease and bleach out stains (and any other color with which it comes in contact).

Outdoor bleach (like that made by Clorox) contains the hypochlorite but also contains specialized soaps to help break up the dirt and other undesireables from surfaces you are likely to find outside. It also contains materials that help to quickly break the hypochlorite down into basic salts (like sodium chloride) so as not to adversely affect the environment.

The reason people here (and elsewhere) use specialized chemicals is because these store-bought brands are generally too weak and expensive to use in a business. The reason for using a 10% or 12% chlorine bleach is because you are buying the "good stuff" and not having to pay for alot of water, and a 30 gallon container of 10% bleach is as effective as a 60 gallon container of 6% bleach (available in stores). Why pay shipping on water? Other chemicals contain specialized soaps and surfactants that will allow better cleaning depending upon the surface being cleaned. This is where you will get many opinions.

As a general guideline, you want to mix your chemicals such that your end concentration is adequate to do the job. That may sound ambiguous....that's because it is. Experience will tell you how much you need on a certain job. As an example, I like to make my solution such that the final concentration going onto the house (after mixed with water from my pump) is approximately 0.5% to 1% chlorine and about 0.2% tsp, if I use any at all, on a lightly mildewed vinyl house with normal dirt accumulation. These numbers will vary wildly depending upon surface and severity of dirt.

That's pretty much the rundown on chlorine. There is much more when you start talking about acids, percarbonates, silicates, ect. There have been many discussion threads in the past covering various chemicals and their uses/applications. Try reading some of them in between updates to this thread and you are likely to find answers to almost every question you have.

Ryan H.

[RyanH 14]

Private message from eric:

Ryan,

thank you very much for the insight. You must be a chemist by training.From what I understand you use 99 gal of water and 1 gal of 10% chlorine and occ. a little tsp. Is that the mix you use ? Now what is the caustic(?) in tsp? Lastly, on pricing jobs - when a hosue is say a 1500 sq ft single story and you charge .10 per sq ft. . The price would be $150.00. Now same house except 2 stories. Do you simply chargre for a 3000 sq ft home? From an economic standpoint, I would think you make more money on larger homes. Is this correct ?

thanks again for sharing your knowledge!!

1 gal 10% bleach to 99 gallons water will give a 0.1% solution, which will most likely be too weak to be effective. I used to make an 8% solution and then X-Jet it on with a 3:1 water:chemical ratio. This gave me an effective concentration of 2% bleach (I think I'm right on those numbers). I say "used to" because I am finding that using the granulated calcium hypochlorite is more of a hassle than convenience in the long run. I'm in the process of looking for a supplier for liquid sodium hypochlorite, but am having trouble locating one.

TSP reacts with water to make sodium hydroxide, which is the source of the "caustic" in TSP. The chlorine kills the mildew, the sodium hydroxide helps to act as a soap and makes rinsing more effective.

As for pricing, well, there is more involved in that than the area of the place to be cleaned. Simply doubling the cost of cleaning for doing a two-story house as opposed to a one-story may sound like a good idea, but you will most likely find it hard to justify this type of pricing depending upon what type of cleaning you do.

In all jobs there are some "constants" that are involved, regardless of the size of the job itself. The constants may include the time it takes to drive to and from the site and the time involved in setting up and breaking down your equipment. Also, adding a second story generally does nothing for the amount of gutters that will be cleaned, unless you take into account the difficulty of getting it up to the second story (some chemical is lost on the way up, but most likely a negligible amount). You do add some difficulty if you are cleaning windows (lugging a ladder around), so it might not be fair to *you* to simply double the cost for windows since a second floor will involve *more* time and danger than the first floor. You will be doubling the amount of chemical you use for the vertical surfaces themselves, so doubling that amount sounds reasonable.

I think the consensus from most people is that it is best to price a job based upon how you work. Most people seem to like charging based upon how long they believe it will take them to do the job. This may not be great in circumstances where you get nosey customers who want a breakdown of how you are charging or in cases where the houses are similar and you have a lot of competition (you want to be consistent in the prices you give to customers in case they discuss it among themselves).

And to comment on whether or not a larger house is more economical than a smaller house....that's usually the case. The longer you spend with the variable things like area of walls, lengths of gutters, numbers of windows, the more insignificant the constant costs and troubles become. You can make more money in a single job with a single setup and travel expense than doing multiple jobs that require multiple breakdowns and setups (which can add up to hours over several jobs). BUT, if you can schedule two or three houses next to each other (or in the same neighborhood) you can most likely do better because you go from one house to the next without doing a full breakdown and there is usually an acceptable floor price that most people will accept (like a $150 minimum) whereas someone with a large home may balk at a $400 charge (keeping mind this is just the home itself, not flatwork or decks). It's for this reason that i try to give "friendly neighbor" discounts to people with neighbors who schedule a cleaning for the same day.

Hope this gives a little more insight and is accurate.

Ryan H.