Alvaro

[chirobob 14]

Alvaro,

what I would do to clean it every time would be to look for a mild truck/alkaline wash at say pH 11 to clean them with. I would just downstream this, allow it to dwell for 15 minutes, then clean it with a fan jet 25 degree or use a turbo nozzle. If the premises has a hot water heater you may be able to rinse it off with this if you hook up your supply hose to a hot water tap. Usually they will have a 1/2" (15mm) or 3/4" (20mm) fitting that you can hook into- check the water flow out of the heater will keep up to your machine.

You may or may not be able to do this depending on your machine, but most pumps will handle water at 60 degrees. Just remember don't let it recirculate thru your pump. You'll have to remove the bypass to dump on the ground or somewhere out of harms way plus you'll have to plug off the bypass return on the inlet side of the pump.

This should get you out of trouble until you can determine if it is feasible to get a hotbox.

A surface cleaner would give you a great result in this situation as well. It makes the cleaning pathway nice and even and a whole lot quicker.

The HF is hydrofluoric acid, if you don't have a lot of luck with the alkaline detergent wash, I would try the HF at 2% but you will need to add a surfactant to keep the dirt in solution, and you would apply it with a bucket and broom/truck brush with all your personal protection gear.

Cheers,

Jason.

[alvaro 14]

Thanks Jason,

Hot water is not an option at the location, so I guess I’ll have to do my best with cold water and the products you’ve advised. Why do you advice alkaline (I want to look god if customer ask!:) )?

What could be a good surfctant?

[chirobob 14]

Thanks Jason,

Hot water is not an option at the location, so I guess I’ll have to do my best with cold water and the products you’ve advised. Why do you advice alkaline (I want to look god if customer ask!:) )?

What could be a good surfctant?

Alvaro,

most detergents are either pH neutral 7 ish- these are the ones that need alot of scrubbing (mechanical energy) to loosen up the dirt particles as you go up the pH scale towards 14 you get an increase in (chemical energy) that usually requires less scrubbing and just rinsing. The problem you have with higher pH alkaline detergents is that there is a higher risk of streaking and damage to plants etc if you don't pre-wet and post rinse. The same can also be said about acidic cleaners that have a low pH.

In general most grime/dirt is more soluable in an alkaline detergent.

To put it in perspective with an analogy most animal fats are slightly acidic in nature if you try to clean the fat off concrete it won't dissolve and therefore will mainly stay on the concrete, but if you were to treat the fat on the surface with a caustic (sodium or potassium hydroxide solution) pH 12.5-14 the fat would dissolve and the surfactant (carrier molecule) attaches to the broken up fatty acid molecules and allows it to mix with water. Allowing you then to rinse the surface without leaving a residue.

Surfactants basically are a carrier molecule between the dirt molecule and the water that allow the water hating grime to be able to dissolve in water. When I was talking about the surfactant with the HF the role in this case is to allow the acid to stick to the surface increasing the exposure time before it runs off. This is particularly important with vertical walls. An example of a surfactant is standard diswashing liquid. The are however many different types of surfactants that perform better in either acidic, alkaline, solvent, waterbased, hot or cold environments. Eg a good surfactant for HF is an Octyl phenol EO 10, Hydrochloric Acid -Teric PE 62, Alkaline solution -Nonyl Phenol EO 9. Tiger Chemical Co has a good surfactant guide for different applications as do Dow Chemicals.

I guess if you want to make your own cleaning agents the previous is fine, but may be a little over the top for most. But even if you don't wan't to make your own chems a little chem knowledge will make it easier to purchase chems.

For example if I wanted to buy a truckwash the first thing I ask for is the MSDS and I check out the pH and what the active ingredients are. To many times these office jockey chem salespeople sell you something that is the worlds best cleaning chem. Only for you to find that you have to scrub like a monkey over and over the same spot.

If you really want to get into the nitty gritty of cleaning with chemicals, it would be best to learn some basic chemistry particularly acid-base reactions as well as polar and non polar solvents and you will be able to clean just about anything.

Regards

Jason

P.S as for the tiles you could spot acid clean with HF on the lime runs and use the alkaline detergent for the rest. I feel if you use Hydrochloric or phoshhoric acid on the terracotta there would be a good chance it will cause effluoressence.

[alvaro 14]

My …where did you learn all that?

Thank you so much Jason.:D

[alvaro 14]

Jason,

I’ve been trying to find that HF but as been difficult as I don’t know the translation to my language. Do you know the chemical formulation?

[RyanH 14]

HF is hydrofluoric acid, also referred to as hydrogen fluoride solution, aqueous hydrogen fluoride.

Babelfish gives the translation from English into Portuguese as

fluoreto do hidrogênio

or

ácido hydrofluoric

I think quarteira is in Portugal. Am I right?

You could do a search relating HF and Portugal to see if there are any suppliers.

[alvaro 14]

HF is hydrofluoric acid, also referred to as hydrogen fluoride solution, aqueous hydrogen fluoride.

Babelfish gives the translation from English into Portuguese as

fluoreto do hidrogênio

or

ácido hydrofluoric

I think quarteira is in Portugal. Am I right?

You could do a search relating HF and Portugal to see if there are any suppliers.

Been researching in the meanwhile and read some mean, scary things about that stuff. Things like: if you touch it, you’re dead; if you breathe it, you’re dead …not sure if I want to get it any more.

Yes, Quarteira is in the province of Algarve (check pic), in Portugal.

[RyanH 14]

Alvaro,

Got a guest house or bedroom there my wife and I can crash in? From the looks of this picture, I think we'll be coming to Portugal sometime in our lives. Beautiful place.

HF is only bad because of the way it reacts with the calcium in your bones. The acid itself won't do much harm the way sulfuric or hydrochloric will....those burn. HF will be absorbed into your skin and displace the calcium in your bones. Fluorine is the most reactive and electronegative element and as such will rip the calcium away from the carbonate ion with reckless abandon. Sounds cool, but wouldn't want anyone to try it!

[alvaro 14]

Got a guest house or bedroom there my wife and I can crash in? From the looks of this picture, I think we'll be coming to Portugal sometime in our lives. Beautiful place.

That can be arranged...in exchange for some knowledge.lol :deal:

[chirobob 14]

Alvaro, try a (Selfserve or automatic) carwash supplier, you should be able to get it through them, but it may be mixed with Sulphuric or phosphoric. It will probably be sold as aluminium brightener or acid wheel cleaner. You may also try your brick manufacturing companies to see if they know of a supplier.