Tough Competition.

[Paul B. 523]

I wonder how long this company will stay in business?

It's a fairly large deck cleaning company in my area and they use Defy as their primary stain.

Anyway, I'm kind of backing into this story as it is still unfolding but here is the crucks of it:

I was asked to bid on a deck for a friend of a friend. The deck surface is about 700 square feet, but by the time you add all the railing, faceboard, supports, steps, lattice, etc., etc., etc. for this 3-tier unit, the square footage swells to over 1720 square feet. It has failing stain and a large amount of vegetation/landscaping and all 3 tiers are nested against the house. (I would post photos, but it's still a pending bid.) Because it is a friend of a friend, I bid it at about $1.08 per square foot using a $22/gallon stain. The customer was interested in Defy as it was sold to him as the best stain in the world (what stain isn't?). So I talked to the rep, obtained verbal and printed product info and got his best price (retail $35 per gallon $27 contractor). Coverage requires 2 coats and the average of both coat ends up at about 200 sq ft per gallon or about 18 gallons for the job.

To get to the crux: The customer calls and is asking for clarification as I'm told my bid is 2x to 3x the other bid(s).

I gave this customer a 2 page document (along with the estimate/contract) explaining the same thing I explained over the phone (I knew he didn't read it because of the questions he asked - the info package I sent him cost almost $3 in postage - maybe he was overwhelmed.)

The next lowest competitions bid was at $1000 with tax so his rate is about $0.58 per square foot to strip, neutralize and apply 2 coats of material that will cost about $500+. With the masking and other factors it's definitely a 20 man hour job but even if they wear jet packs and finish in 10 hours the billing rate before taxes and without materials is only $44 per hour. The lowest bid was around $700 from ??? (I didn't even ask).

I sent the customer back to the competition with questions and told him if he thinks he feels comfortable, to go with it, but think about the process and try to imagine the end product and low cost labor (his house is about $400,000). I'll bet short term cost savings potential is too enticing for him to refuse.

[Aplus 525]

Paul,

Maybe the bids from the others weren't including the use of Defy. Even so, .58 s/f is ridiculous for any product. Obviously, they are not doing wood card for a living, but rather weekend warriors.

I always thought the main point of Defy was that it is water based, and less harmful to the environment. I really haven't done the research on that product, and I've only ever seen it on a deck one time, and it looked like poo-poo after one year.

I would try to find out why the customer wants Defy, and if possible, try to build a case that other products are available that work as well or better, and cost less money.

[Paul B. 523]

Tony,

This company is a full time business, not a weekender - but they are newer in the area (don't know how long). They have large 1/2 and Full page ads in "Rearch" and other "Savings" magazines.

They quoted DEFY to the customer (what they put on and how many coats???). Defy's claim and fame is based on synthetic materials that are not food for mold and mildew like oil based products (they don't say anything about synthetic oils). They did a good job of twisting things around. I tried to un-twist it for the customer but he was already sold on the product. It always amazes me what a piece of paper with written info on it can do. (If it's written, it must be true!)

I explained in detail to the customer about oil based products and water based products and gave him a 2 page write-up. To be honest, I don't think he saw past the price and the fact that he was told that it is the BEST product on the market. Like I said, based on his follow-up questions, he didn't read everything I presented and he had way too may questions - indicating he did no homework on his own. I'll wait a couple of months and see if he'll let me take a look at the deck and ask him if I can also look at it in the spring.

The DEFY sales packet includes a Lab report comparing water resistance and color retention capabilities against products like WeatherSeal, TWP, Super Deck, CWF UV, Wolman, Penofin, High Sierra and about 4 or 5 other low end products. They are ranked #1 in both categories. But Independent testing and reports can be twisted to look any way you want. If you had 3 different reports, I bet they woul all look different.

I talked to the DEFY distributor and he supplies that company. They may get a much better contractor price than I was offered - I was not able to get a hint (I pushed pretty hard and my last negotiating resort was to ask for a per year quantity price). But even at that, like you said ($0.58 per sq ft), it can't produce long term quality results.

Assuming that this is a legitimate company, the only thing I can

guess is that they are making a major introductory product blitz for their company at cost or just a hair above. If they have deep pockets this could work long term (repeat customers and word of mouth). We'll see how many times we cross paths and what next year brings. I don't consider them major competition since the consumer base and area is large and has not been saturated.

[charlie 14]

The report was done by earlham lab. Defy is a good product. It will not promote mold and will not turn grey. The average I have been getting before a maintence coat is needed is 2 years. Any product can fail if not properly prepared. The only time I have problems is that I haven't neutralized the deck properly before treating it with defy. Been using Defy for 10 years

Charlie

[Paul B. 523]

To expand a bit:

Wolman has an Alkyd/Acrilic stain called Dura-Stain (semi-transparent) that claims it is #1 Rated Semi-Transparent Stain Formula.

[Guest rfitz]

obviously they screwed up their math, if you figure everything out

they are making about $10.00 an hour on that job, I wouldnt wash

that deck for under .75 cents a sq ft,

For a deck as you describe, my price would be $2.00 a sq ft plus materials

take it or leave it, the old saying never fails. you get exactly what you pay

for, just let the cust. know, you are available to come back in 6 months

and fix this lowballers work, but then it will be $3.00 a sq ft plus materials,

extra dollar a sq ft for another FREE estimate,

I am finding at this price, I am getting at least 2/3 of my bids,

I simply ask my customers, would you trust a guy at $10.00 an hour

to work on your vehicle, including parts, or the dealer at $75.00 an hour

plus parts.?

People arent stupid, if something sounds too good or too cheap

they usually walk away, I know I do....

There is to much work out there to worry about, this job...

Have A Good Day

[Paul B. 523]

There were other things that made the competition estimates a bit suspicious to me, but didn't seem to bother the customer.

My honest feeling is that the customer was OK with a low quality job for a low price. I will lower prices from time to time to help the customer, but not at a loss or sacrafice in quality.

Believe me, I did not lose any sleep over this one.