RPetry

Larry, I've had the exact opposite experience. I've gotten deck jobs from websites that are not mine. I don't even have a website done, yet.

Russell, Know your above reply was for Dan but I'm far from home and bored. Not any more. The above post is the clearest, most detailed explaination of the purpose of physical components of exterior wood stain and how they interact with the properties of the exterior wood itself. This, or something similar, should be required reading for anyone taking any "Certified" Wood Contractor course.

Jim's really created a fine idea. Maybe take it one step further. I have visited a lot of graveyards. Seriously. I'm not kidding. I like them. One of the problems is there is never anywhere to pee. Think about it. Aside from the administration area on the perimeter, has anyone ever encountered public restrooms inside of a cemetery? So you create a monument that not only makes a strong, humorous statement, but also serves the public benefit. A working, urinal mausoleum! A dual purpose piece of used, active sculpture! Even more brilliant! This is going to get expensive though. Windsor WoodCare may have to just bite the bullet and start washing houses. But with an idea like Jim's, no sacrifice is too great. Gotta' start working on this....

Ha! Diamond Jim, that is one terrific idea! Its *amn near brilliant. I love to visit good cemeteries. We have one of the best not too far from here in Trenton, NJ. Bangor, Me. has a real good one. Seen some unique, oddball tombstones but a urinal in granite would be a true piece of art. Going to be expensive though, Beth's ACR marketing class should help on that end. Then you have to find a graveyard with a sense of humor. That may be difficult, but nothing worthwhile is easy. Still sold on the ashes in the volcano number (being a trained geologist and all), but guess they could be divided up. Must consult with my wife on this potential change of plans. Look at the inspiration provided by TGS. What a fine website! Thanks!

Rod, This is not an argument. We are different, simple as that. Philosophy, worldview, outlook, attitude, whatever you want to call it. No one is right or wrong. Be thankful its that way, it would be a boring existence without differences. Would hate to live in a pack of clones. But don't mistake my philosophy with day to day life. I do not live in a monestary. Worries, concerns, sadness, politics, poor health, finacial hardships, etc. are the fabric of anyones life. But so are joys, relationships, fun, friends, work, play, reading, learning, feeding the birds, smoking and drinking too much, driving fast cars, laughing, fishing. Self indulgent? Maybe, but so what? About the only sure thing I think I know about life is that the Golden Rule is not a bad guide. A life lived to the best of ones' ability under that precept is a good, worthy life, and in the end may be all that matters. Jeff, Yeah, I'm soon to be 54 and try not to act my age. Getting harder though. Someday maybe we can trade stories away from public view. Probably have a dozen or so that would make Hunter Thompson, rest his soul, proud! Glad to see you are not a Villary fan. Saw this posted on another thread here and am very surprised at the content on the web site. It seems to be the personal blog/website of the editor of "The Progressive Review". Sounds pretty liberal, being a pinko socialist and all, ever hear of it? (insert smilie here) A FEW OF HLLLARY CLINTON'S GREATEST HITS

Yeah, the world was young then. Everything was new under the sun. Wish you youngun's would quit worrying and gnashing your teeth over every little thing. Leads to a sour dispostion, ulcers, heart disease, misery, and an untimely death. Maybe over 2000 yrs. old, but the statement still rings true. Much more fun to indulge in questionable behavior. Drink, smoke, gamble, chase women, etc. while you're young. Builds character and internal fortitude.

Rod, Maybe I see where the fundamental difference is between us. You write: My perspective here, and in the other thread, is long term. The only time I addressed current affairs, was a one liner in my post at the head of this thread. About the shortest time period I addressed was the current fad "ills" of this decade. The examples I used pointed out either downright frauds of the past or how the world managed to solve the ills current in that time period. Of course there are problems. We're a species called homo sapiens, stumbling through high octane evolultionary change. Let me try this another way. From a historical perspective, lets say a time period of 100 yrs. or more, is there any real argument that Americans, society, economics, mankind, nations, the complete human world, is progressing? And at an accelerating rate? One small example of 50 some years. I was born and lived through the Cold War. "Bomb drills" in elementary school, a real, immediate threat of annihilation from nuclear weapons. This threat eventually cooled off, but it was not until maybe the late '70's that it became less of a pressing issue. Sure there are nuclear weapons still around. Immediate concerns are possible N. Korea and Iranian development. But the overall problem is nowhere near what it was, and has in fits and starts gotten better over my lifetime. I call this progress. Will the nuclear threat be erased in my lifetime? No. But in another 100 yrs.? Probably. I call this progress. Is global warming a current problem? Sure it could be. Is human activity responsible? Probably, at least in part. Are we going to cook ourselves to death? Of course not. If we cause the problem, we can fix the problem. Of that there is no doubt. In the next 20 yrs.? Partially. Before causing mass extinction of life? Yes. Pick any subject you like on a worldwide scale. Agriculture, war, human disease, education, governence, standard of living, even opportunity. I assert that mankind is progressing, and further, progressing at an accelerating rate. This is what I mean by historical sense and perspective. In my mind, the future, and I mean the future way past my lifetime, will, compared to today, be grand and glorious.

Rod, Nah, already have my ultimate demise covered. Ashes will be hauled up to the caldera of an active volcano and thrown in. Still working out the details of what volcano and who's going to provide the transportation.

Jeff kind of writes: You are a friggin' hoot. You are under the weather and sick? You must be a handful when healthy. I keep a file of interesting quotes. Use them as "signature" lines on some of my email addresses. One of my favorites is: -- J. LeCours Now thats funny. Copied it into the file as soon as I saw your post a while back here on TGS. I can't get serious today, but consider this. Most of us have more in our garages today than the average American had in total posssssions 3 generations ago. We are not bad off. Are material goods progress? I would argue "not really", but most would scream a resounding 'YES!' Think about American history and world change. Some sharp minds contend, and I agree, that we are living through another revolution, call it the "digital" revolution. Just as our predecessors had economic dislocation during last century's Industrial Revolution, some in American society today are similarly caught adrift in changing tides. I think manufacturing should flow to 2nd and 3rd world countries. Its inevitable. It gives other poorer nations a leg up, and the Western world must move on into the unstoppable future. Today and tomorrows jobs and economic well being in the US is/will be based on knowledge and information flow and control. Technology is king, and will be for quite sometime. 1000's of US based companies are now in technological pursuits, from engineering, boutique specialty steel fabricators, home builders, pharmaceuticals, financial services, software and computer industires, telecommunications, service businesses,the list goes on and on. This is the future. Education will be the key. I'm not sure that many Americans consiously think this way, but in their gut they know it. The big push on better education is more strident than ever. Not here to advocate "No Child Left Behind" legislation, but the overall policy is sound. If this society fails to get better and smarter, then the U.S. will fall behind and that 11% average return on DJIA equities will be the good old days. Judy and I have no children so in one sense I could care less if this country goes to hell in a handbasket. But I don't think it will happen, at least for another few generations. My wife is an adminstrator of an 800+ elementary school, grades K through 3rd. I attend a few functions a year and get to see what these little peanuts are all about. They are articulate, bright, smart as a whip, and talented. Way above my generation at the same age. So go ahead and wail away at Washington, jobs, Republicans, Democrats, Iran, Iraq, McDonald's, Walmart, the near East, the far East, immigrants, the economy, NAFTA, fundametalists, Islamic terrorists, health care, gay rights, violent video games, and all the other current media talking points. I think the future is bright. Wish I could live long enough to see it.

Steven, You are lucky, much too cold here in central NJ. We usually start on exterior wood the last week in March or first week in April. Jobs can be cleaned and stripped before then but the low temps. just do not allow the wood to dry out enough for stain application. Never tried to do a sq. ft./minute calculation, but on average, maybe 75 sq. ft / hour? This includes all prep and stain application. Varies greatly from job to job.

My fault, seems my sick sense of humor has landed me in hot water. My post above has more than ruffled some feathers. Honestly, my intent was not to be contemptuous to Rod and/or Jeff. But it has hurt some feelings and for that I apologize. I sent the following email to one injured party and meant every word of it. I trust this clears the air. Now Jeff, you wrote.. If I recall correctly, nearly half of all adult Americans have some investment in U.S. equity markets. Many may not even realize it, but mutual funds, some 401(K) and other plans include common equities in their portfolios.

Oh boy. Another topic with discussion potential degenerates into metaphysical quackery and political empiricism. First, Ron stuns us all by claiming to be on another time-space continuum... Next, our resident political pundit Jeff chimes in with this ditty... I think the two of you should get together and start a new blog. It would sure be entertaining. :arg: Rod, hope you find Earth someday and Jeff, hope you get well before 2008. Villery Clinton may provide some relief. :lgbonk:

Rod, With all due respect, your reply is, let me get this palatable, unfathomable. Lets try this one more time. You stated: and followed up with: Would any half sane reader think this has anything to do with taking job deposits? Is it my lack of business acumen or bad reading comprehesion? Look, you made some very strong, blanket diatribes on the state and future of the U.S. economy. I called you on it. Skeptics abound, been around since man was made. But on the subject at hand, they've been proved wrong, false, shameful prophets, time and time again. History has many lessons to teach.

Rod, In all fairness, you take my post out of context and make it a poster child for some poll on a self generated new thread. My post was a direct response to a few statements by you, highlighted below. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Rod Quote: What? You have no faith in the US economy? We're the largest economic powerhouse on the face of the earth, past, present and for quite a few years in the future. I do not understand the scepticism. Rod Quote: Price of oil, concurrent 1st world recessions, market crashes, anyone who's lived for more than 15 yrs. has been through all three. Ill turns are always around the corner, so what? How are you going to protect See Dirt Run!? By taking job deposits? Moving to Chavez's new socialism Venezuela? You cannot be serious in believing what you have written. Chicken Little has not gained the upper hand. America remains the promised land of opportunity. _____________________________________________________________________________________ For anyone curious of the true context of the original discussion, go to Rod's submission, post #29, at the following link, and read into the following page. http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/residential-pressure-washing/9658-deposits-anyone-2.html

Jarrod, You should talk to Jim Foley of Conn. He deals with some very wealthy clients. Think he gets in the door by way of architects, interior designers, etc. As far as your advertising puzzle, I'd break it down this way. Only three of the 6 groups would be selected, the top income three. 75% or 3x of the budget would focus on the "Upper Middle Class", with 25% or 1x divided between the "Rich" and "Rich & Snooty". Major reason being that there are a lot more "Upper Middle Class" potential customers where I live than the two upper tier groups.

Ken, Two Bloody Marys is not drinking, its refreshment. Writing tonight cut substantially into my happy hours. I just get very ticked at this constant stream of negative stuff. I think its mostly trash. What did Spiro Agnew say, "nattering nabobs of negativism"? Now there was a fine American. A true entreprenurial, corrupt, slimeball politician. Ever wonder how many judges are really sober? After all, most were attorneys early in their careers. Got a fun lawyer joke: Diogenes went to look for an honest lawyer. "How's it going?", someone asked him, after a few days. "Not too bad", replied Diogenes. "I still have my lantern."

Rod, Not sure how old you are but suspect I have more than a few years on you. Let me tell you about the "doom and gloom" prognosticators and American skeptics throughout just my lifetime. In the '60's, remember the book, think it was Silent Spring by Rachael Carson? Was all the rage. Pesticides were killing nature and humans. We were all going to die. Fact is, pesticides are used more today than ever. Maybe a bit later was the "population time bomb". This remarkable idea was that humankind was breeding itself right out of the food supply. Potable water and food production would not keep up and half the world would starve. Really, bet at least half of Americans took this as gospel. What happened? Population soared, but so did food production. Agriculture expanded at a tremendous rate, thanks in part to the use of more pesticides! Mass starvation today is nowhere near the levels at the time this nonsense took hold, while world population has since maybe doubled. In the early '80's my family business was living on bank credit. Interest rates were at 18%! A partner and I had been trying to finance a startup at the time. Let alone walking on eggs with an old established business, a new venture at those rates was just not feasible. Talk about "doom and gloom". Everyone thought it was the coming of the next Great Depression. What happened? Change of executive branch administration and economic policy jump started a furious economic comeback. Ever wonder why so many older Americans loved Ronald Reagan? My family business survived, and the startup venture went no where but in '82 successfully launched and operated another startup on my own. There were no soup lines, no Depression, and the American economy roared back, bigger and better than ever. Again, in the I think '80's, Japan was taking over the world. Their management, culture, quality control, etc. was burying American business. We were doomed. What happened? America remains on an upward economic growth curve while Japan has been mired in little or no true growth for what, 15 to 20 years? In Sept. 2001, this country suffered a huge blow. The financial infrastructure in the US and much of the world was dismembered. What happened? The stock market tanked. So what? Slow hands took a beating, and my wife and I had substantial paper loses in equities. Friends with weak hands and no faith finally bailed near the bottom. Then what happened? Real estate went through the roof. The equities markets came roaring back! For two years, I did a lot of trading and made money without having a clue! The DJIA over the past 50 years has yielded ~ 11%/annum with dividends. Compound that. Take a look at a long term DJIA chart since 1920. What do you see? Think thats going to change anytime soon? Ok, so the looming disasters of the decade are national debt, Iraq war, global warming, energy crisis, a booming China, poor public education, too many fat people. Newscasts and the media love to trumpet this trash. And most people are sheep, blindly believing background noise without thought. There are problems, real measurable issues. But is the US becoming the next France? Are we all going to die from heat or drown from rising sea water or eat ourselves to death because we're too stupid due to bad education? Is China going to own each and every American? Back to the buggy due to no fuel for our cars? Please. Doom and naysayers have been around much longer than I have. They generally are short term prognisticators, either making a buck off of feeding the masses this sensational pablum, or just miserable people trying to justify their unhappiness. They have no knowlege of history or appreciation of the strength, will, and dynamic change the American people and econcomy have demonstrated time and again. In short, I think most of this hand wringing, Chicken Little worldview is pure, unadulterated B.S.

Rod, Your business and others are run one way, Ken, Tony , myself and probably others are run another. There is no strict answer. Tony stated he's been in business for over 16 yrs., Ken and I at the 5 - 6 yr. mark. We have all somehow remained in this business. In our markets, we have gained an "edge" with another approach. Hey, whatever works. Commercial accounts are a completely different animal, and I agree with much of what you posted on commercial credit. What? You have no faith in the US economy? We're the largest economic powerhouse on the face of the earth, past, present and for quite a few years in the future. I do not understand the scepticism. Price of oil, concurrent 1st world recessions, market crashes, anyone who's lived for more than 15 yrs. has been through all three. Ill turns are always around the corner, so what? How are you going to protect See Dirt Run!? By taking job deposits? Moving to Chavez's new socialism Venezuela? You cannot be serious in believing what you have written. Chicken Little has not gained the upper hand. America remains the promised land of opportunity.

Ken Fenner and Tony Szabo described how we operate our business day to day. Most of our customers come from referrals, thereby 'prequalified'. Most of our customers are upper middle class or higher on the income scale, they can easily afford the service. But what is really important is the 'trust' factor. At least in NJ, residential contractors have a poor reputation. Bad press abounds, and it seems that many homeowners have been ripped off by non-performance, or late and shoddy work. If not, they've heard and read the horror stories. To stand out from the rest of the horde, a 'no deposit, payment in full when completed' policy is a powerful sales tool. I trust the vast majority of my customers, and I want them to trust Windsor WoodCare. Going on six yrs. now, we have never had a non-payment problem on any job. Better knock on wood! I do make exceptions. On new customer jobs estimated over $300 in materials, or labor lasting > 4 days, I will often require a deposit and/or progress payment, but only after completion of the first day of work. A few times I've sensed bad vibes from a customer, and my trust level was low. In these cases a stricter deposit/progress payment was agreed and stated in the contract. Thankfully to this point, my sixth sense has been wrong.

Russell, Thanks for the timely reply. You are correct, the single customer in question was a job done two years ago this coming November. The WTW is "aged". I'm a big believer in standards. Yes, my intention is to remove the WTW and apply RS. That is, if I can do the job before November! Also affirm your statement that RS does not get "tacky", at least in the 4 yrs. I've been using it. The one downside with RS on initial application, with most species your cannot use enough of it. Good. Don't mind stripping if needed but contend that NaOH is bad for wood. Did not want to contribute to Back to Nature's coffers on my own dime. Yeah, its only one job but BFS II gets real expensive to correctly apply in labor costs. If a strong percarb works, that is great news. Not so much concerned about "color", know I can make wood look fine. The fact that RS will be compatible with any remaining WTW is a blessing. This may be an inaccurate choice of words on my part. Compared to RS or what I imagine the characteristics of ESI's paraffinic oil stain, WTW has a coverage rate of 2X or maybe 3X. I am assuming that less product goes into the wood. One other clarification. Our discussions began with basic wood stain ingredients. I was referring to linseed oil as a base, without additives to correct deficiencies in the oil as an exterior treatment. Miscommunication. Gotta' drive up to Syracuse, NY and rescue my wife from the bowels of winter hell. I would like to continue this thread on more education about exterior wood stains. Thanks.

Rod, I followed your significant others' advice on another thread here on the Grime Scene and had a few brews. Just arose from a peaceful mid day nap to find that you wrote: What? I understand about WTW and WTW's lack of penetration. No doubt it is a different animal than paraffinic oil stains. Must have gotten 250 sq. ft. to the gallon on a percarb/citric prepped deck. Are you saying that I may not be able to strip and use RS? Your are right, I do not like using NaOH unless necessary as I believe its bad for wood and its just a nasty chemical to work with. But of course, use it all the time to prep new customer's wood to accept RS. Past rumor and innuendo hinted that WTW was difficult to strip. Is it true? If I have to use BTN BFS II to get rid of the stuff Beth will ban me from the boards as I'll be screaming bloody friggin' murder. Russell, what's the story?

Jarrod, For a job like this one WTW deck I have, it will be priced like a normal RS main. job. Reason being I put the stain on originally, and its my choice to change stains. Went through this for the past several years, changing original F&P customers over to RS. Did not charge any premium. Wait a minute, the only reason I used WTW on this one deck was the customer insisted that the work be done in Nov., after the normal season. May have to rethink this one. For regular old RS maintenance customers, materials and labor runs ~ 65 - 70% of a "new" customer. Reason is simple, a lot less labor, materials, and time. The wood dries out quick due to the paraffinic oil already in the substrate so I don't have the scheduling delays due to rain.

Graduated with a BS in Geology, with a minor in skiing, from the Univer. of Denver, alma mater of Condi Rice! Did some post graduate work in finance and mathematics but never got an MS. Tried to get into Harvard Business School but they had no interest! Worked for the U.S. Geological Service for about 4 months and quit. Could not stomach the bureaucratic nonsense and waste. Worked a family business for awhile, sold it and am now on my 3rd and last startup. A good college education, not necessarily degree, is invaluable. It teaches you how to think.

Rod, Whew! Your post had me worried for a moment. In all probability I'll strip this one WTW this year and apply RS. Last season, converted a few remaining old Wolman F&P customers to RS and aside from some Cabot solid oil jobs, all current customers are now RS wood. Nice and simple! Thanks.

Rod, You posted: Thank you Beth for clarifying "warm honey gold", what you are referring to is a stock color of Wood Tux Wet. Let me get this right. What you are saying is that when its time for a maintenance of WTW on wood that was originally treated with WTW, the color is "yuck honey brown"? And strippers (I'm assuming NaOH) won't remove the old pigment from the wood? Can't you at least strip off most of the old WTW, apply a new coat, and get to at least "close" to the designed "warm honey gold" color? As mentioned earlier in the thread, the only linseed oil based exterior wood stains I have seen with the above problem has been Cabot's Austrailian Timber Oil. Reasoning indicates that the tung oil added into the product may be the problem. But even then, on hardwoods, most of the remaining color can be sanded or buffed out with a Makita. Might be that tung oil or some other "permanent color" oil is included in WTW. What do you mean by "hardened" wood? Is it so tough that sanding is difficult? Reason I ask is I've got exactly one WTW deck, and its due for a maintenance this year.