RPetry

Jon, That pic is downright creepy. Is that a munchkin? You guys are keeping me in the dark, what the frick is a munchin? Do they have them in Argentina? Austailia is too western and Africa sounds like a life threatening nightmare. Any better suggestions?

Ken, I'm kind of not kidding. Judy is thinking of getting out of education and NJ is the pits. Argentina I'm sure is different, but maybe no worse than Menendez for a senator. This state is embarassing and a cash pit for living and business alike. We're even thinking of moving back to Pa., state of my birth and the home of the Eagles!

Ken, Hope you speak Spanish, I don't. But again, the market is Buenos Aires. Money talks. You ask Russell, I'll ask Pierce. Can we get decent stain shipped down? Friggin' Argentina is loaded with old world Italians and runaway Germans. My wife is Italian, think that may help?

Ken, Always had the fantasy of moving to Argentina for part of the year. Wadda' ya' say? Know the tango?

Larry, I'm kind of happy. One benefit of exterior wood is that you have a long break, and are able to rest, heal, and take stock of your business and where you want to improve. My "tennis elbow" is just about unbearable and needs a break instead of cortisone. Tough getting old. I've had enoght of NaOH, stain, wet weather, smelly clothes, wind, equipment problems, scheduling problems, 12 hr. days, weekend work, scrubbing in the bathtub, sales tax, and not enough time to really drink beer, for the season. The only thing I will miss is my customers. But March comes around and its Blue Sky, a new beginning, and you're just itchin' to get at it again. Go figure. Must be some kind of sickness.

3rd floor loft is the office and mine! Garage is for supplies, stain, equipment etc. and is mine! Everything else aside from the Eagles on Sunday afternoon is my wife's and she can have it all. Simple.

Diamond Jim, Last time I let you in on my modus operandi! For the record, Colt '45 is dishwater. Its Heineken or better or no beer at all. Might be a fun poll. What do you do when the enlarged bladder needs relief on a job site? I'll readily admit to finding the most hidden site, preferably away from the house!

Don't try this on hardwoods. A few months ago had a 2 tone RS job on some type of Asian hardwood. Thunderstorm blew in about 30 minutes after applying stain. Came back the next morning and spent 3 hours, a quart of Simple Green, and a roll of HD blue towels cleaning up. Nightmare. RS is a weird stain. Finished an old cedar job a week or so ago. Rained about 5 hours after the second application on the horizontals, but that was no problem. Knew I had overapplied on the protected floor of the gazebo, and nightime temps were in the mid 40's to mid 50's. Stopped back two days after applying and sure enough, lots of oil sitting on the surface of the cedar floor. Wiped up the excess with an old white bath towel. What was strange is that the towel looked clean. The pigment had stayed in the wood. I guess it was just the paraffinic oil left on the surface from the cedar contracting due to the cold temps.

One further consideration that I have never seen any discussion here on TGS. Which stain is actually better for the exterior wood itself? There is so much talk of appearance of the wood surface, stain cost, application techniques, lifetime of pigments before maintenance, etc. None of us "woodies" seem to address the long term condition and protection of the wood. The subject is not limited to RS versus WTW. It is more generic, non-drying paraffinic oils as opposed to linseed or other drying oils. I have never seen any studies or documentation on the long term condition of wood using the two types of oils. I certainly have some subjective ideas and observations, which is one of the primary reasons I use RS on virtually all my exterior wood jobs. But no straight facts or impartial third party studies seem to be available.

Krpalex, I've been using Ready Seal exclusively for three years now. Used WTW on one job last Nov. when I knew the wood would not dry out enough to apply RS. The differences between the two stains are vast, and the advantages of each depend on species of wood and more importantly, whether it is a new customer or a maintenance for an existing customer. A new customer, wood that you have never worked on. For old weathered pressure treated spruce or southern yellow pine, and very old weathered cedar, initial stain costs will be much greater using RS. These woods will really soak up a penetrating oil the first time it is applied. And yes, to correctly stain most species of wood the first time with RS, I believe two separate applications on horizontal wood, and a single heavy app on vertical wood is advisable. Initial application stain costs - advantage WTW. Ease of application. Being that I only used WTW one time, I'm not the best judge. It took me forever to apply the product, but much of that was being unfamiliar with the stain. I do not think there is much arguement that RS is easier and much faster to apply. But with two apps on horizontals with RS as opposed to one with WTW, I'd give a slight advantage to WTW. Ease of use. RS is ready to use as is. A shake of the 5'er and its ready to go. With WTW, the stain is often pigmented on site, and also cut with mineral spirits or water, with measuring, mixing in a separate container, stirring during use. With WTW, brushes, pumps and sprayers, should be cleaned daily. As RS is a non drying oil, brushes can be left alone for a week or more and sprayers left as is. I use a PumpTec HVLP with RS, and the only time it is cleaned is for winter storage. Advantage - RS. Preparation for staining. The clear advantage goes to WTW. RS requires that the wood be dry, 12% moisture content or less. WTW can be applied to wet wood. I personally am not sold on the idea of applying any stain to wet wood but that is another matter. Big advantage - WTW. Overall, on new jobs, I would have to give the nod to WTW. This advantage lessens with new PT and cedar, and certainly hardwoods, due to less difference in stain costs. Maintenance for existing customers. Again, using the typical old pressure treated wood. For maintenance, RS is a single application stain. As there is still a good quantity of oil left in the wood from the initial application, you are replenishing lost oil and pigment from weathering. Still, you will probably use more RS than WTW. Advantage - WTW. For other species, its probably a toss up. Ease of application. With one treatment of oil on the horizontal and vertical wood, RS will be much faster, less labor intensive to apply. Advantage - RS. Ease of use. No change from above. Advantage - RS. Preparation for staining. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe WTW requires a "deep" cleaning, in other words something like a percarb cleaner and a pressure washer. With RS, I use a light bleach mix with a very low pressure rinse. Actually, with RS you do not need a pressure washer. On many days I can do a quick cleaning and then stain with RS as the existing oil in the wood allows the wood to dry quickly. Can you apply WTW over an existing WTW finish if the surface of the wood is still wet? Not sure on that one. Advantage - RS. Overall, for maintenance of existing customers, advantage - RS. Other considerations. Some speculate that WTW is a three year stain, as oppose to RS, which at least here in the Northeast, should be applied every two years. Some speculate that WTW will eventually have to be stripped, while it is clear that RS does not require stripping. As WTW is a new product, time and use will tell.

Jon Fife wrote: My thoughts exactly. If you go to the info page, note that they sell mildewcide separately, "Customers have the option of mixing a mildewcide additive into SoyGuard® if exterior wood decks, fences and siding are located in an area subject to heavy mold growth." Welcome to a new world. If the environmentalists and VOC police continue to run rampant, oil stains will soon be extinct.

Roger, Solicitor is proper English for lawyer? In other works, from slipping there was fear of a lawsuit? If so, keep banging on that door, its a terrific sales angle. Don't know a thing about stone, but it sure looks good to me.

Found another old favorite from June 2004. Last wood I stained with Wolman's F&P. PT deck, stairs, cedar doors, enclosure, and upper shake fascia stripped with HD-80, brightened with straight citric acid. F&P Natural was the stain. Goes to show that even consumer grade stains can look good immediately after application. Tom Vogel of ACR started distributing Ready Seal stains right after this job and never looked back. Golden oldies, gotta start taking pics again.

Roger, Congrats! With the chemicals and equipment you have obtained over the summer, you must be light years ahead of any competition in wood care in the U.K. The fence looks great, its amazing the different processes can do to wood without the use of high water pressure. A customer with property on an island in the middle of the Thames must be pretty high brow, and should be a great source for referrals.

Ken, Ok, gottcha. BTW, with RS maintenance, you don't need a pressure washer! Ok, Ok, couldn't help myself! Ed would be proud. Lets all learn something and try to have a bit of fun. I'm off for the shore to get the last of the fluke in the morning. Check back tomorrow night.

Ken, Take it easy. The point Jon and I were trying to make is that all stain % solid content is measured the same way as non VOC material left over. Has very little to do with the amount of pigment. BTW, RS , from interpreting the MSDS sheet is ~85%, not 95%. I do not believe that anyone has stated or those that look into these things ever stated that higher solid content is better. Its just the amount of stuff that stays in the wood. A simple standard measurement. I do not think you will get true values on the amount of pigment from most stain manufacturers. I assume this is proprietary information that most will not divulge. There is no question that for a proper and correct initial application, stain costs using RS will be much higher than WTW or many other types of stains. You also have to wait on dry wood. However, the ease and speed of product application save on labor. With the wet wood factor of WTW, Flood, and other stains, I would have the give the nod on overall costs for initial treatment to the "wet wood" stains. But the point I have tried to make in the past is that maintenance is so much cheaper, both in prep and staining cost to the business and to the customer. You have to admit, this is a labor first business. Stain is cheap compared to labor. I correspond periodically with a gentleman that retired this summer. He just sold the last of 28 separate wood restoration companies throughout the U.S. These 28 locations have all been using RS for a number of years. As far as I know, all 28 are still in business. RS has been producing stain since maybe '92 or '94. I believe they are still producing product to the market.

I believe Jon Fife is correct. % of solid content in semi-transparent stains include the oils(s), resins, mildewcides, pigments, etc. that are left behind after the VOC content of the stain has evaporated. Pigments are only one factor in measured solid content. Speaking of pigments, I have been told that Ready Seal uses transoxide pigments finely ground for 48 hours. As you do not have to stir the stain, seems that all the ingredients are held in suspension for a very long time. I think the idea is that this allows the pigments to get deeper into the wood, using the parafinnic oil as the carrier. Are transoxides inferior pigments? I thought clay pigments took that dubious honor.

Ken, Cedar can be a real PITA. But I like the look of the wood and the challenges it presents. A lot more difficult to work with than PT or hardwoods. I do not know about Woodrich but with RS and cedar, it takes a few days after stain application for the color to even out and the pigments to cure to near the final color. With knotty WRC, knots are just what they are, part of the nature and composition of the wood. I have never spot stained cedar knots, all the wood gets the same amount of stain. Customers should understand this. After all, its what makes the wood look like cedar. I actually like the look of knotty WRC over clear cedar, its got more character. You think you have a problem, I'm working on a old cedar job stripped of a very failed Behr's fine solid acrylic. Actually stripped pretty easily, but underneath in very shaded areas are what I can only assume are old mildew stains, impregnated into the wood. I can only speculate, being that the property has changed hands, but in all probability another fine Behr's product was probably used in the past, one of the formulas that resulted in the 185 million class action lawsuit due to inadequate mildewcides. I've seen this before on some PT wood, but never cedar. In addition, a carpenter replaced some cedar chewed up by squirrels with new wood. What to do? Being that the blackish mildew stains are in the wood, you can soak it for a few hours with strong NaOH and get a lot of it out, but then you are really beating the bejesus out of the cedar itself. Or you and your customer have to accept the fact that the job will not be picture perfect. I prefer to preserve the integrity of the wood.

Dan, I think it depends on the wood species, condition, and stain you are using. With a new customer with Ready Seal on softwoods, the first application goes down straight out of the Pump Tec sprayer. The second application gets backbrushed if the wood is cedar, otherwise only where necessary with pressure treated wood. Same procedure with mahogany. Maintenance only gets one application of RS, and is quickly backbrushed in. True hardwoods get rubbed in using lambswool pads.

Still my best photo, from a job done 2 years ago. Mahogany two tone, stripped of blacked CWF using HD-80, brightened/neutralized with straight citric acid, and stained with Cabot's Austrailian Timber Oil, Honey Teak color. Do not use the stain anymore, but the home, flowers and a lucky exposure make it my favorite picture.

Larry, I've been using the Pump Tec Decker 5'er for three years now. The only thing the unit has sprayed is Ready Seal stains. It is my most valued piece of equipment. As RS is such a light oil, 25 to 35 PSI is all the pressure needed. With the adjustable wand, you can control flow with your thumb. Get the extension for the wand so you do not have to bend over when oiling floors. Tom and Barbara Vogel of ACR carry the units and stand by their customers. If you use a lot of RS, the Decker 5'er will pay for itself in no time.

Celeste, Great test project. I've never been able to consider using customer wood to evaluate new products. You found the perfect job, with the two tone on the frame and diagonal wood. Sure beats using small sample boards sitting out in the rain and sun. Please explain. Are you saying higher moisture is better when applying the WTW and Flood stains? One of the best features of hardwoods is that they dry out quickly when using traditional oil stains.

Travis, Above is all very good advice. With the Decker 5 and Ready Seal, I run the pump between 25 and 35 PSI with the adjustable wand. Folded heavy canvas tarps are stapled to the handrail, and draped over each side. Hit the spindles at a 45 degree angle each way, with a brush in hand to even out. This way, the outside surface gets a double dose of stain. Jon Fife may be right, waiting a week or more may be better, but the first time a deck is being done with Ready Seal, I try and get two "flood" applications down on subsequent days, which is sufficient. As he mentioned, just make sure the wood is dry and do not go cheap on applying enough stain.

Hey Neil, Nah. August was slow, just got back from rubbing elbows with the rich and famous in Easthampton on Long Island. Fun to see the other side on a shoestring budget. Veritable acres of cedar shake and lap siding. None of it cleaned or stained. Once it gets bad enough, they just replace the wood. Money is no object, but the weathered look I guess is the acceptable look. Fridge is full of greenies, so I can rest easily. Flood rep has called twice. Both times expressed my disgust at exterior acrylic stains. Mentioned I would test only if they shipped their stripper along with the stain. Wanted to send a rep out and do a deck. I would never consider using any customer as a guinea pig, especially applying an acrylic! Have not recieved any products since and that is fine with me.

Alright Roger! You practically had to reinvent the wheel to obtain any products over the pond. Making your own strippers, cleaners, and brighteners is difficult and a testament to your tenacity and dedication. Congratulations, you may well be the premier wood restorer in the U.K.! I think your job looks great. Though not a fan of Aussie Oil, it is probably the best stain you can get over there. Please do not ask how to formulate stains! Seriously, with proper preparation of the wood surface, most oil based stains will do just fine. Keep at it. Now that you have the chemicals and a bit of experience, the sky is the limit! If you need references, refer them to the Grime Scene.