RPetry

Roger, That's great! Knowing the problem you have had getting decent strippers and brighteners in the British Isles, I'm glad that you have found a supplier. Caustic soda is the common terminology for sodium hydroxide. Your supplier is right, it is a nasty chemical that should be used with much care. From what I know, in raw form it comes in "flakes" or "beads". Not sure of the difference, but as I recall, Shane uses the "beads". Shane would be the best reference for creating your own "mixes". Most of us use sodium hydroxide based wood strippers already pre-mixed with "buffers", surficants, and possibly other ingredients, from specialty manufacturers that combine the chemicals especially for stripping old oil based stains off of wood. Unfortunately, it seems that in England, you do not have that luxury. All that I can tell you is a mix of 3 to 8 ounces of sodium hydroxide material to each gallon of water is a common strength solution over here. It depends on what stain and in what condition that you have to remove. The best scenario is for the lowest concentration effective, and keeping wet with solution and allowing to dwell or "sit" for a time on the wood before rinsing with the lowest effective water pressure. Many of us carry a variety of stripper strengths, already premixed, in spray bottles when we do estimates. We test a few spots to determine the proper strength when we are on the property to do the job quote. Wear chemical resistant rubber gloves, and eye protection when mixing and applying to the wood. Pre wet any grass or plant life susceptible to exposure. Rinse said plant life immediately on any exposure. This sounds rather technical, but if you are just starting out, take your time and just be careful. In my opinion, any sodium hydroxide treatment is not good for wood, and should be avoided if possible. However, for removing old failed stains, it is necessary. After a while, concentrations, dwell time, and handling become almost second nature. The sodium hydroxide is very caustic, and will darken the color of the wood after treatment and a pressure rinse. What you want to do is neutralize the pH of the wood back to near 7 or neutral. This is where the acids come into the picture. Most use oxalic acid, I have always used citric acid. Both perform the same function, neutralize the stripper (or sodium percarbonate if working with bare wood), which in turn brightens the color of the wood back to "natural". With the stains available in England, it is probably best that you allow the acid (citric or oxalic) to dwell for a time then rinse with water. I happen to apply my citric acid then leave the job site, but I use a stain not available to you that prefers acidic wood. With citric, a normal concentration is 6 to 8 oz. per gallon of cold water. You will see the wood brightening after 20 to 30 minutes and then rinse off. Allow the wood to dry and you are ready to stain. This may all sound rather difficult, but in practice it is not. After doing it for a while, you can judge times and concentrations, protect plant life, your customers property, and yourself and your workers. Just take it slow, be careful, and learn.

Doug, Pete's right on the money. As soon as the wood is dry enough, with Ready Seal, go ahead and stain. I have not had the problem that some have reported on the new ACQ wood and applying Ready Seal. As you are fabricating the new rails, look for kiln dryed after treatment lumber for construction. Test with a moisture meter before purchasing. It should be maybe 14% or less. With Ready Seal, moisture content of the wood is critical. From what I have read about WTW, it does not matter.

Roger, Nice job. Looks like the property should be in the U.S., decking lumber without those strange ridges and even a Weber grill. Did you have any luck obtaining sodium percarbonate and sodium hydroxide from your chemical supplier?

Jim, Nice piece of property. Looks like you were able to prestain the wood prior to installation. I'm kind of trying the same thing on my own 3 yr. old ipe' deck. Stripped Cabot's Aussie oil off the wood and sanded early this spring. Just letting the wood sit for a while. Hope to get two lambswood apps of oil into the wood late this summer.

Russell, What is the reasoning behind this mixing practice?

Ripped up the carpeting and installed hardwood floors, including the interior stairs and all closets. Lots of fun, a worthwhile winter project. Ripped out the PT SYP and installed ipe' on the deck. Installed 36 drops of cat 5e ethernet and RG-6 quadshield over three floors within the walls and ceilings. Ripped out two builders sliding glass doors onto the deck and installed Pella's. Finest and hardest pine I have ever seen. New Pella windows are next on the list, probably this winter. Installed various low voltage lighting, mostly in the kitchen. Needed a friggin' building permit. New Jersey is a cesspool of waste and corruption. The inspector never looked at the wiring, just kept spouting off about his prized condo in Florida. Installed T&G flooring in the 3rd floor eaves. Building dept. wanted to know if anyone would be living there. Being its about 130 F. in the summer, I guess not. Idiots. Did not have to buy a building permit.

Aaron, If you have worked on cedar, redwood is very similar. Hot water is neither necessary or wanted for any exterior wood. I believe the primary reason is that hot water just makes cleaners and strippers much more aggressive and possibly harmful to the wood. The lowest effective pressure is best for any wood. Like cedar, redwood is soft in composition. You can really tear up the wood, but as you have worked with wood, you'll know in a second if you are using too much pressure. Mahogany is a bit more forgiving, but both are expensive, attractive woods and the usual care should be taken with both. The customer wants you to prep the wood and is then going to let a painter stain it? What's with that? If this painter is unable to properly prepare the surface he has no business staining it. I'd have a talk with your customer. Ready Seal works great with both woods. One caveat with some redwoods. Old growth may have a ton of tannin in the wood. Once prepped, apply a small test spot of regular Ready Seal. If it turns very dark, almost black, within a few seconds, you've got tannin coming to the surface. Ready Seal makes a redwood only formula that solves this problem. Looks and applies just like the normal Ready Seal stain.

James, One of the problems I have found with cedar is getting enough stain into the wood. Though soft in constitution, cedar is pretty dense. If dealing with a pool area, chems from the pool water could also have some affect on the stain. The Pump Tech is a continuous running pump, unlike a Shurflo. You can adjust the PSI on the unit, I run mine between 35 - 45 PSI for Ready Seal. Along with the 50' flexible feed hose, make sure to get the adjustable gun. This has a thumbwheel adjustment near the trigger, and you can adjust the volume of stain flow without removing your trigger hand. Works just great when staining exterior wood. As far as I know, the unit is only 12 volt. Get a deep cycle, marine type battery. The pump will run all week on a single charge. Search on this site for "Pump Tec" or "Pump Tech", cannot remember the correct name. I posted some other info a while ago to another question. It is truly an indispensible piece of equipment if you are using Ready Seal stains.

James, Was this new cedar? Sanded or defelted cedar? Cedar can be a problem for any semi-transparent oil based stain. With Ready Seal, the best method I have found on a new job with cedar is to get a medium application on, let it penetrate overnight, and put another light application of stain on the next day or soon thereafter. I use a Decker 5'er for application of Ready Seal, its made by a company called Pump Tech I think. Sorry, out of the office but I know that Tom Vogel of ACR Products carries them. It is the most valuable piece of equipment I own and in 3 years has never seen anything through the pump execept Ready Seal stains. IMO, Ready Seal is much to "thin" a consistancy for an airless. They're good for thicker stains, paints, etc, but would not even try to use one for a thin paraffinic oil.

Jim, I don't have a clue as I've never had a problem with mill glaze that I know of. Of course can only think of one job that I had first crack at brand new cedar. I do know that you can burnish cedar with defelting pads and a Makita, to the point where pigments will not take to the wood. Done it. Friggin' acrylics, don't get me started. If ya' want to put plastics in your wood just buy composites. In my opinion, the biggest con job in stain manufacturing. I don't care if its in solid stains or semi-trans, I'm not going to use it. Look, maybe we are all wrong. But I doubt it. We will certainly know in the next few years. This guy with the new mahogany is a friend of yours and he used that stuff? Make him sand it off with a block of wood and sandpaper, without kneepads, in the hot sun without any beer. Teach him a lesson!

Oh boy, Diamond Jim with a birds and the bees and the trees lesson. Think I'd better grab another cold Heineken or two...

Shane, Diamond Jim and Ed Burke of the WRCLA had a bit of a go round about "mill glaze" over on pressurenet.net. Apparently, the Forest Products Laboratory cannot find any truth that lumber mills produce any glazing on wood. For cedar, it is some type of resin extractive that naturally can come to the surface of the wood. It can be removed with oxalic acid. This info is courtesy of Ed Burke and the WRCLA.

Nah, I'm bringing the Pump Tech. Measily 60 psi at 1.8 gpm will not cut it with this crowd! I still think woodies might be better to meet separately. This WRCLA and FPL issue has me very concerned.

Aw jeeze Beth, you had to bring that up! Bleech Bandito only comes out when there is mildew present on RS wood that is due for maintenance. CCA and ACQ takes more water pressure than WRC. In my experience, discount the homeowner and idiots.

Ken, I agree. Wood contractors are a completely different breed with our own issues to discuss and try and resolve. Nothing against others but do not consider my business as pressure washing.

Beth, Qualified vote for Ocean City. If there are in fact 40 or more people attending, a hotel with conference facilities would be ideal.

Jason, Ocean City, NJ is a world away from Elizabeth. Same state but could be half a world away. Now Atlantic City, with the exception of the hotel/casino boardwalk area, have sections that will remind you of Elizabeth. With possibly 40 or more people attending, may be best to book a local hotel with conference facilities. After the end of Sept., hotel rates at the Jersey shore tend to plummet, and a group could possibly work out a deal with a min. # of rooms. Transportation from Phila. International Airport is possible by public transit to the 30th St. train station in center city and the N.J. Transit light rail line to Absecon, NJ, just outside of Atlantic City. Atlantic City also has a regional airport with some commercial carriers providing passenger service.

Ken, Nice digs. For all, Ocean City has some of the nicest beaches in New Jersey. It is also a great town. Atlantic City is no where near the same league as Las Vegas but I guess fun if you are into gaming. Carlos, Fishing depends on the time in the fall and the weather. Through Sept. into early October, the summer flounder fishery is still open, and its inshore easy fishing. My personal favorite. Sept. through Nov. is also tuna season, mostly yellowfin but bigeye around. This is an offshore trip usually 24 - 30 hrs. about 100 miles offshore. Very strong fish using heavy tackle. Great eating. Bluefish are also around through maybe October. Voracious, hard hitting and fighting fish, 5 - 18 lbs. The striped bass come in as the water cools, generally best in Nov. and Dec. Awesome first run after hookup, and go from single digits through 40 lbs. or more. If Ken is willing to host, I vote for Ocean City, NJ. I'd be more than willing to help prep, setup, etc.

Diamond Jim, You could not walk away from wood if the wife, kids, and grandparents dragged you into Long Island Sound. Let alone that stupid bird on your head chirping "cedar" every few minutes. Real fun wood, it certainly is a PITA but worth it when its done.

Enough already. Three years ago, Cabot's Aussie Oil was all the rage for hardwoods. I bought into the party line. Applied mahogany flame to my own new ipe' deck. Last year, stripped with NaOH and applied again. Big mistake. Stripped again yesterday with 10 oz./gal. of F-18. Actually stripped twice in some areas. No go. The stuff is insidious. On ipe'. This hardwood will get a final sanding to get rid of the remaining ATO and be left alone for a while.

Dan, I agree with the stripping problem. Not that it is a hard process to do, its just that I believe sodium hydroxide is bad for wood. A partial quote from a paper on NaOH.... My underline on the 2nd sentence. The full paper is at http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/GenChem/ChemWeek/Chlorine%20and%20Sodium%20Hydroxide.pdf Maybe Brent can help us out on the chemistry. This is one of the reasons I now only use Ready Seal stains. No stripping, ever again. Just a maintenance oiling every two years on softwoods. I do not know the correct maintenance on hardwoods yet as I just started using Ready Seal on these species this year. I expect a light bleach mix, rinsed at very low pressure, and a light lambswool application of Ready Seal at maybe the 6 month mark after first application. Once enough oil is into the hardwood, I expect a yearly maintenance thereafter, similar to other stains. What I do know is that maintenance prep will be a lot quicker and easier than NaOH stripping, and less harmful to the wood.

HuskerFan, Try: Scott Millen-Labor Omnia Vincit StainlessDeal Mobile Pressure Wash, Omaha NE 68114 Reach me anytime at: (402) 670-4214 or smillen87@aol.com

Jon, Ah geeze, foiled again. The magic bullet remains elusive.

Sure does. Found the product on the following site: http://www.timberprocoatings.com/woodpromain.htm No real definitive info but the following is suspicious. Fireandrain, Mix up a quart of hot F-18, say the equivalent of 24 oz./gal. or 6 oz. of stripper in a quart of water. Apply to a heavy, intact area of the stain and let dwell for say 30 minutes. If it starts to dry out, put on some more. If you cannot easily remove the old stain with a paint stick nudge, you have a real problem.

Brent, Holy smokes do you understand the chemistry on that site? Early this spring we had a sometimes heated, but educational and fun thread on bleach and wood. I had a very good old friend with a doctorate in chemistry glance at the subject. His conclusion, in a nutshell, was that without a lab, a whole lot of time and testing, experience by contractors in the field was probably the best measure! An acid followed by a caustic, reverse stripping! Very interesting idea. But I'm giving my wood a deserved rest and just let it weather naturally for a while. Its just been beat up with sanding and strippers, it needs to be ipe' for as long as my wife allows it! Silicone discoloring ceramic tile? Wow, no wonder it did not sand out of the ipe'. Thanks for your time and knowlege.